EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: motorhomer on October 23, 2017, 05:51:41 pm
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Hello all
I am looking at getting into smd electronics and so need to get some equipment to start. I am looking at buying a microscope but do not want to brake to bank on this as I still need an oscilloscope and other soldering equipment.
I need some advice on two microscopes I have my eyes on. The first is a Chinese model and the other is a AmScope.
I understand the Chinese models are not of great quality but are they any good for a beginner and can they really be used for smd work.
I really like the Chinese model as the stand is much better and it has optical zoom.
The AmScope only has 10x and 20x but has good reviews.
What one would be the better. I don't want to spend over £300 due to over cost and I also live in UK so US models will have heavy import taxes.
the Chinese model link
eBay auction: #http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand/142449962828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
the AMscope
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5)
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Hello all
I am looking at getting into smd electronics and so need to get some equipment to start. I am looking at buying a microscope but do not want to brake to bank on this as I still need an oscilloscope and other soldering equipment.
I need some advice on two microscopes I have my eyes on. The first is a Chinese model and the other is a AmScope.
I understand the Chinese models are not of great quality but are they any good for a beginner and can they really be used for smd work.
I really like the Chinese model as the stand is much better and it has optical zoom.
The AmScope only has 10x and 20x but has good reviews.
What one would be the better. I don't want to spend over £300 due to over cost and I also live in UK so US models will have heavy import taxes.
the Chinese model link
eBay auction: #http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand/142449962828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
the AMscope
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5)
I use an Andonstar 75 euro usb microscope. For my older eyes good enough. See example picture https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=83812.0
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thanks Roeland_R for the reply. That looks a great buy for the price but I have not seen any reviews on this and have been warned away from USB microscopes.
I will give this some thought and do some research on this tomorrow as the price would be great for a start up
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I was looking on the RS website the other day and I found RS Pro (Chinese) Stereo Microscope x20 and Bresser x20
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/)
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/)
The Bresser and Amscope look very similar but the Bresser uses halogen bulbs that don't last very long, personally I prefer the Amscope.
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A USB microscope is ideal for inspection and checking solder joints.
However, you'll really struggle to work under it in real-time; the processing lag (unavoidable on any microscopes that don't directly output video (VGA/HDMI)) and lack of depth perception will make it very hard.
Amscopes are manufactured in China; of the two you posted, the ebay link would be vastly nicer to use (with adjustable zoom and highly adjustable stand being big factors). For either, I would highly recommend adding a 0.5x Barlow lens to double the working distance (and reduce the zoom) - for electronics 3.5x to 22.5x is an excellent range.
Note that both of those items ship from outside the EU, which means you will be charged VAT and likely a handling fee as you import them.
Andy
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The lag on the USB devise was what I was worried about. The bulbs I believe could be replaced with a better LED lighting ring.
I have read about the 0.5x Barlow lens and would look at adding this.
thanks for the replies this is pushing me to the Chinese model as the stand and zoom would make a lot of difference
As for import tax I will have to take this chance. I have bought a lot from china in electronics and have so far luckily missed the import tax, where as when buying from US I have always been stung
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I was looking on the RS website the other day and I found RS Pro (Chinese) Stereo Microscope x20 and Bresser x20
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/)
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/)
The Bresser and Amscope look very similar but the Bresser uses halogen bulbs that don't last very long, personally I prefer the Amscope.
I have a similar microscope to those. Mine is fixed at x20 and I find this great for close up inspection but it is too close for rework. You end up always moving the board to position it exactly right. I think x10 or less would be better but I am stuck for the time being with the one I have.
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For SMD work you want between x4 and x8 magnification. Perhaps get x4, x6 and x8. Getting more working distance is a plus. The last time I looked at a microscope most offer magnifications which are way higher and you'll need to buy seperate lenses to get lower magnifications and more working distance. A good quality magnifier lamp with an 8 diopter lense could also be an option. IMHO the best to get is a Mantis (if you have the space) and with some patience good deals can be found.
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The Mantis microscopes are very nice but as a start up in this hobby will be well out of my price range. Maybe in a few years this could be on my Christmas list.
Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish
A 0.5x Barlow lens would cost an extra £25 so will have to look for one that would fit.
If no one has owned one then I might get it and review it on this post.
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Have you tried watchmaker loupes instead or one of those magnifying goggle things that restorers use (not sure what they are called), or simply putting on two pairs of +3 reading glasses?
Just a thought. I've only done one tiny little SMD repair, so I'm not qualified to give my opinion, but if money is a bit tight then it might be worth a try.
All the best,
Trys
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The Mantis microscopes are very nice but as a start up in this hobby will be well out of my price range. Maybe in a few years this could be on my Christmas list.
Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish
A 0.5x Barlow lens would cost an extra £25 so will have to look for one that would fit.
If no one has owned one then I might get it and review it on this post.
FWIW, the link on the Chinese station has been removed.
IME you'll definitely want a model with zoom.
Regarding a 0.5x Barlow, the Amscope I have uses 48mm screw-on filters, Barlow lenses, and ring light adapter. Definitely worth it as it will double your working height. It may be easier to get it from the microscope vendor as they can make sure it's the correct size.
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I used one of these for a lot of SMD soldering while building a 'Scotties Spectrum Analyser'. It is pretty cheap but works well, especially for 'tired old eyes', and you have a simple choice of lenses. For detailed inspection something with greater magnification would be useful such as a jewellers loupe or indeed a USB microscope. I did however manage the build successfully without either of the latter. What was important in my case was plenty of extra illumination as the built in light was not sufficient on it's own.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9892B1-Magnifier-Interchangeable-5-Pcs-Lenses-Headband-2-LED-Head-Lamps-BG/122656823411?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D503cb2c1e1e84de381ed7f7a82e9eb1b%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9892B1-Magnifier-Interchangeable-5-Pcs-Lenses-Headband-2-LED-Head-Lamps-BG/122656823411?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D503cb2c1e1e84de381ed7f7a82e9eb1b%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226)
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not sure why the ebay link was removed, this is the item number 142449962828
and link again
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD)
As for the head sets I am not sure these will be good enough. I will be inspecting and fixing small items like the iphone and laptops so I believe a microscope is the best way forward. However I have never used this head set for micro smd work.
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How do you keep a circuit board on a microscope without it falling off, or is it a completely different type of microscope to what I'm thinking?
Edited: I've looked at the one in the link - so I see now. ;) I'll crawl back under my rock now with an embarrassed look.
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Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish
I was looking to buy a similar stereo microscope a few months ago. Looking on Aliexpress, that exact model is sold by multiple sellers (Lucky Zoom and FYScope being the biggest).
There are many combinations of that same microscope head in binocular and trinocular configurations, along with various stands and accessories, ranging from £150 (head only) to around £600 (head, stand, camera, lenses, LED lights etc).
The model you have posted is a very satisfactory head with reasonably decent optics; I'm sure you would be happy with it. The stand is slightly lightweight/flimsy compared to the usual single/dual boom stands sold with that series of Chinese microscopes. That's where some of the cost savings are - the single boom arm stand I got is almost 20kg on it's own, which put up the postage cost significantly!
Aliexpress certainly has more choice than ebay (and at slightly lower prices) if you're comfortable using it.
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I use the Amscope 7x-45x Simul-focal head (SM745TP) on an articulating arm clamped to the desk. I use it with a 0.5x Barlow and the supplied eyepieces. This gives you a good 8" working distance for rework, in particular for getting a hot air iron in.
I gave up with the LED ring, and instead use a pair of 3W LED gooseneck spots in opposite directions clamped to the microscope.
I also recommend a height adjustable chair, with 8" of working distance it might feel a bit too high.
This is what you and the camera see at maximum zoom. The LED and two caps are 0201, and the two resistors (near the LED) are 01005. The chip is 0.76mmx0.76mm. It is much clearer visually than this photo gives credit, I strongly suspect that the optics in the camera adapter (Amscope AD-C20) aren't the best.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/soldered-0805-vs-0603-vs-0402-vs-0201-vs-01005-vs-008004-today-)/?action=dlattach;attach=363368;image)
If you want to watch a video of me using it, there's one here
https://youtu.be/JWS2NWK3D4g (https://youtu.be/JWS2NWK3D4g)
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For my self I was looking at
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html (http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html)
Someone around here was using it and happy with it.
Shipping to Holland is GBP 18, so probably cheaper to you in the UK.
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Someone around here was using it and happy with it.
I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.
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not sure why the ebay link was removed, this is the item number 142449962828
and link again
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD)
As for the head sets I am not sure these will be good enough. I will be inspecting and fixing small items like the iphone and laptops so I believe a microscope is the best way forward. However I have never used this head set for micro smd work.
You definitely would want to have a microscope for iPhones and such.
Thanks for the link. Do note the photo doesn't match the description in regard to the stand. Description says dual arm boom stand, so verify it with the seller if you opt for the unit you've linked. Regarding a dual arm boom stand, they're more stable IME than single arm stands.
I have the previous version of Simul-Focal, and can confirm the optics are fine.
3.5x - 90x Simul-Focal (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Sale-3-5X-90X-50-50-SPLIT-SIMUL-FOCAL-MICROSCOPE-DOUBLE-BOOM-STAND-TRINOCULAR-STEREO/32670311127.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.70.fU7iuE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10342_10343_10340_10341_10541_10540_10307_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10539_10538_10537_10059_10536_10534_10533_100031_10099_10103_10102_5590020_10052_5640020_10053_10107_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_5630020_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=766906fe-5db3-43f6-a619-bc9f025de812&algo_expid=beb6d1e9-5e0b-4962-a687-7ccf7817c025-9&algo_pvid=beb6d1e9-5e0b-4962-a687-7ccf7817c025) from Aliexpress for 390.30GBP shipped.
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[I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.
I'm still on the fence. Do you feel the FOV is big enough for smd work and checking?
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Do note the photo doesn't match the description in regard to the stand. Description says dual arm boom stand, so verify it with the seller if you opt for the unit you've linked. Regarding a dual arm boom stand, they're more stable IME than single arm stands.
I noticed that - but then suspected the seller was using the fact that their stand technically *is* made of two booms (one vertical and one horizontal), to appear in search results of people looking for the more usual dual-parallel arms... If you are actually getting the much more solid/expensive dual-parallel version that would be good, although it seems very unlikely given the price and picture!
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Thank you all for the advice, cowana thanks for the link to aliexpress I have not looked at this before and I might now need to do a lot of cross comparing as I can see at least one micorscope which may have the same ebay spec for £50 less.
I have email the ebay seller to clarify the dual beam arms and to see if they are selling a 0.5x barlow lens for this scope.
That link you gave woody is similar to the AmScope which is a fixed lens scope. I would like zoom capability if i can.
As for the beam I am not to worried as this is something I can fabricate by myself if needed. The main concern was the lens quality and that it gives good sharp images with out having distortion between each eye. I have had binoculars with each image overlapping each eye.
Howardlong thanks for the video this is great I have not watched it all yet, will try later when I have more time. But looking at the resistor sizes you used this is something i might have to do and they are really small. Still not sure about the AmScope they are more expensive and no zoom. I cant find the one you mentioned being sold in the UK.
I will see what the ebayer comes back with and spend some time on aliexpress to see if I can get it cheaper although ebay does have more protection when buying from abroad..
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Another option is to use a smartphone with a good camera. I just saw someone do that today.
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Have you tried watchmaker loupes instead or one of those magnifying goggle things that restorers use (not sure what they are called), or simply putting on two pairs of +3 reading glasses?
Just a thought. I've only done one tiny little SMD repair, so I'm not qualified to give my opinion, but if money is a bit tight then it might be worth a try.
All the best,
Trys
I wish to second this recommendation. I have a good microscope, but find myself using the goggle and loupes far more frequently. The microscope has its place, but as a beginner I would put money into an oscilloscope and other electronic gear first. I don't know what you can find in Europe, but here in the US you can get the goggles for well under $15 and a set of loupes for under $5. They are not top quality, but more than good enough.
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[I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.
I'm still on the fence. Do you feel the FOV is big enough for smd work and checking?
I love my http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html (http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html) It makes SMD a joy and is perfect for inspection. The microglobe shop is worth a visit... it is next to the British Museum in London down a small old fashioned side street... think Diagon Alley. :)
... do consider if you will ever want to do a video of your SMD work.... if you do... then maybe you need to be trinocular!
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ebay seller got back to me. The microscope in the picture stand is exactly what you get no double arm system. He also sells the barlow lens to fit this scope for £26
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Somehow I suspect you may have to go with it as I checked on importing one from the US and shipping it to the UK wasn't pretty (tacked on ~174GBP).
You could check into Taobao through an agent. Example (https://www.bhiner.com/) that both speaks English and takes PayPal. Or check into other sites like Banggood and Aliexpress that carry LED ring lights and such might also be of use if the eBay seller doesn't have what you want.
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I've had one of the Zeniths, or at least a clone, perhaps an earlier version, mine looks identical except it has a different halogen light, for several years before getting my Amscope zoom. I've spent countless hours with both.
Here are my comments about inspection microscopes including some comparisons between the Amscope simul-focal and Zenith (and clones/rebadges) below, I am sure others may have their own opinions...
o Working with almost all USB based camera microscopes introduces too much latency for all but the most occasional or documention use. They're OK for photos, but that's about it. You can reduce latency dramatically by using a camera with an HDMI port and either plugging it directly into a monitor, or using a low latency gaming-type capture device. Even then, the camera itself (and even the monitor) may well introduce some latency. Using a removable lens mirrorless or DSLR camera with the right lens and mounting adapters can minimise latency.
o All camera-only microscopes I'm aware of lack stereoscopic vision, another reason to limit their use for occasional or documentation use only.
o Lighting from a single source and direction isn't great. This can be relieved by adding your own LED spot (I use two of these 3W gooseneck spots (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lloytron-L1507SV-Apollo-Clip-Silver/dp/B00GMFKRI2) clipped onto the microscope from opposite angles)
o I find that LED rings get in the way of hot air rework, even with 8" working distance, another reason to consider using adjustable spots.
o Use a height adjustable chair.
o Until you have zoom, you don't realise how useful it is. Manually changing lenses, well, it's too much like hard work. I only used a single zoom setting on the Zenith-clone I have. With the Amscope, I only use it with a 0.5x Barlow and WF10X eyepieces. I don't change eyepieces or Barlows, there's too much time is re-setting. Setting up the Amscope is more complicated than the Zenith, and it takes a bit of self-education, experience and knack to properly set it up so all three ports are in sync and maintain focus throughout the zoom range: once it's set, I just leave it: that's apart from the camera port, where I some times switch camera, but it's only the camera port I have to adjust.
o The Amscope Simul-focal head allows both eyepieces and the camera port to operate simultaneously: other non-simul-focal trinocular heads have three ports but only two can be used at any one time, OK for the odd photo, but not so good for video.
o The Zenith, and similar units, I used the base oriented 180 degrees to the photo because it gets in the way of the working area otherwise. The weight of it is just about enough to keep it stable, but it means it takes a fair bit of desk depth.
o Adjusting the height on the Zenith isn't as smooth as the Amscope in most situations, because the Amscope has a vertical knob adjustment, but it's unlikely the height adjustment will be enough all the time depending on the DUT height, so you'll need to resign yourself to some manual adjustment. The articulating arm I have helps a lot in that respect.
o You can save on desk space if you can use a desk edge clamp especially with an articulating arm. The Zenith takes a lot less space than the Amscope in any event. Having an articulating arm helps in being able to move it out of the way when not in use.
Edit: typos and clarification.
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[I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.
I'm still on the fence. Do you feel the FOV is big enough for smd work and checking?
I'll second what NivagSwerdna says. I use a Meiji EMF-1 stereo microscope with fixed objective and two sets of eyepieces - 15X and 10X - for board assembly and inspection (as a hobby mind you). I work almost exclusively with the 10X eyepieces. I find the FOV small but not so small that it hinders effective SMD work. I have gotten used to the setup and like it alot. I occasionally go back to using a Luxo magnifying light to do jobs that require manipulating the work in 3 dimensions, like building cables, but much prefer the microscope.
If the price and features are right, a fixed objective microscope will work adequately. Zoom is a luxury IMO.
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I use this headband magnifier, works like a charm, also with glasses:
http://www.newark.com/edsyn/ma10/magnifier-headband/dp/88H3359 (http://www.newark.com/edsyn/ma10/magnifier-headband/dp/88H3359)
I replaced the lenses with these (7x):
http://www.newark.com/edsyn/ma-1070/spare-lens-magnifying-7x/dp/34M7314 (http://www.newark.com/edsyn/ma-1070/spare-lens-magnifying-7x/dp/34M7314)
Sterescopic view and full freedom of movement, ideal for smd soldering/rework.
Edit: Some extra lighting:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20315674/#/40315673 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20315674/#/40315673)
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AmScope SE-410 was the best thing I've ever bought! I could place even tiny 0201's using that thing! Highly recommend SE-400/410/420, the mosts usable version is 10x-20x - first one has widest FOV, second one is great for inspection. And it's cheap too!
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Hi guys, sorry I posted the links for x20 microscopes, I should have read the description. It was next day delivery and that was a big factor. But having said that x20 is no good for SMD work, I've been using something similar to the Zenith at my last job and that was x10 which is good for 0.5mm or smaller pitch, depth of field was good and if working on large PCBs then you have to swivel the base around and that's when you need a large weight to stop the thing falling over. Must admit I like the trinocular feature but probably don't need the zoom.
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Must admit I like the trinocular feature but probably don't need the zoom.
Zoom is used more by far than the camera port on a trinocular microscope IME. Even if you're shooting a lot of photos or video, you'll want it to quickly get the image where you want it (magnification + fine tuning the height for focus).
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Thanks Nanofrog, it seems nearly all of the trinocular microscopes have zoom anyway.
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Thanks Nanofrog, it seems nearly all of the trinocular microscopes have zoom anyway.
You're welcome. :)
It would suck to have to return something that heavy or live with it if wasn't going to do what you need.
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I asked AMscope about a .5x/.3x/.7x barlow for 10x/20s scopes. This is the SE400 I think. They said none available. Which I took as none will fit....?
Is this correct? Anyone know?
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I asked AMscope about a .5x/.3x/.7x barlow for 10x/20s scopes. This is the SE400 I think. They said none available. Which I took as none will fit....?
Is this correct? Anyone know?
Correct.
The models with fixed objectives have a rectangular shroud around them, while a zoom model has a round shroud around the objectives. So they're easy to spot. :-+
In the case of the zoom models, you can stack Barlow lenses and filters (if using a ring light, its adapter goes on last).
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I have an inspection microscope, but often use a pair of +7 reading glasses I made. I bought 2 pairs of +3.5 glasses from the pound shop, popped the lenses out of one pair and hot glued them onto the other pair.
The magnification is pretty good. You have to get quite close, so no burning your nose with the soldering iron :-)
Cheers
Steve
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Thanks for the reviews this thread seems to be getting some good chatter.
Howardlong thats a good write up and helpful
I have looked at aliexpress and it has three good micorscopes worth looking at.
(hyperlinks are big so added to the bottom)
1st one FYSCOPE Professional 7X~45X Binocular Guide Stereo Zoom Microscope PCB Inspection Microscope + 60pcs led light
This one has a very nice stand and has very good reviews on the sellers page. But it is not trinocular which is a big down side and the most expensive.
2nd one High quality PCB Industry Lab Microscope 7X-45X Simul-focal Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope with Double Arm Boom Stand
This still has a very sturdy stand much better than the ebay one. It is trinocular and also has simul-focal as a plus. I do like this one but the seller has no reviews or feed back on there site
3rd one High quality PCB Industry Lab Microscope 7X-45X Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope with Double Arm Boom Stand+Adjustable LED ring
This I believe is the same as the second one but does not state weather it has simul-focal which for the same price is not worth it, and again the seller has no feed back or reviews.
So far i am leaning towards getting the 2nd scope in this list. I will still do some digging to find out more about this scope and seller
1st scope
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Professional-7X-45X-Binocular-Guide-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-PCB-Inspection-Microscope-60pcs-led-light/32802428914.html?s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=6968b4f0-8e33-4979-a9d1-b6d6a195f667&algo_expid=ebec216d-446a-423d-9d34-de0735c77773-0&algo_pvid=ebec216d-446a-423d-9d34-de0735c77773#feedback (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Professional-7X-45X-Binocular-Guide-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-PCB-Inspection-Microscope-60pcs-led-light/32802428914.html?s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=6968b4f0-8e33-4979-a9d1-b6d6a195f667&algo_expid=ebec216d-446a-423d-9d34-de0735c77773-0&algo_pvid=ebec216d-446a-423d-9d34-de0735c77773#feedback)
2nd scope
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-PCB-Industry-Lab-Microscope-7X-45X-Trinocular-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Double-Arm-Boom/32650272824.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=524798ae-18db-4c0a-b316-9531a9e6bf99&algo_expid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983-2&algo_pvid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-PCB-Industry-Lab-Microscope-7X-45X-Trinocular-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Double-Arm-Boom/32650272824.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=524798ae-18db-4c0a-b316-9531a9e6bf99&algo_expid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983-2&algo_pvid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983)
3rd scope
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-PCB-Industry-Lab-Microscope-7X-45X-Trinocular-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Double-Arm-Boom/32700239739.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=524798ae-18db-4c0a-b316-9531a9e6bf99&algo_expid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983-1&algo_pvid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-PCB-Industry-Lab-Microscope-7X-45X-Trinocular-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-with-Double-Arm-Boom/32700239739.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10547_10342_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10540_10190_10307_10301_10303_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10538_10537_10536_10059_10534_10533_100031_10103_10102_5590020_5640020_10142_10107_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10179_10312_10313_10184_10314_10073,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_2&btsid=524798ae-18db-4c0a-b316-9531a9e6bf99&algo_expid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983-1&algo_pvid=67eaad7e-19a5-4eda-b6a5-728b72a54983)
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Working distance?
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yes working distance is not great on these models. I was thinking I could replace the upright bar with a longer one to get more working distance. The two vertical bars would be fine and I would have the joining mechanics to the upright.
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Those three heads and the specs look suspiciously like the Amscope ones to me. You can get by with 4” working distance, especially if you don’t anticipate using a hot air iron. With a hot air iron you’d probably want to remove the LED ring to get in there.
The second one says simul-focal but has a silver lever on the left side of the head, that suggests the picture is of a non-simul focal head, it’s used to switch a mirror (or some other optical thingy) between the left eyepiece and the camera port.
If you can get a 0.5x Barlow lens, that would double your working distance.
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I bought this set last month:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-3-5X-90X-SIMUL-FOCUSR-SINGLE-BOOM-STAND-ZOOM-TRINOCULAR-STEREO-MICROSCOPE-56LED/32663003912.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-3-5X-90X-SIMUL-FOCUSR-SINGLE-BOOM-STAND-ZOOM-TRINOCULAR-STEREO-MICROSCOPE-56LED/32663003912.html)
- Simul-focus trinocular head
- Single boom arm stand
- 0.5x and 2x barlow
- 56 LED ring light
The first thing to note is that the head I received was NOT simul-focus, despiute the listing saying it was; as Howardlong said, there is a silver knob used to switch in a prism. I raised a dispute with the seller due to this, and was awarded a partial refund to compensate for it.
Otherwise, it was an excellent buying experience; fast delivery, good packaging, and high quality items. I'm glad I got the 2x barlow in case I want to do anything really close up (die shots?), although the tiny depth of focus (<0.5mm) and small working distance (2") when used means the 2x lens isn't at all suited for PCB work.
The 0.5x Barlow lens is excellent, and provides great depth of field (~2mm) and working distance (8").
I decided not to get the double boom arm, as it is *huge* - make sure you've got a deep bench to use it on! Even the single boom arm option is fairly big, but the size and weight make it very stable to use. Looking at listings for the head only, almost half the cost of a microscope on a decent stand is for the stand - it's great being able to have a decent overhang over the bench, and put your eyes to the eyepieces without worrying about vibrations. The boom diameter of the large single and double boom arm stands are larger than that of the low cost ones.
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1st one FYSCOPE Professional 7X~45X Binocular Guide Stereo Zoom Microscope PCB Inspection Microscope + 60pcs led light
This one has a very nice stand and has very good reviews on the sellers page. But it is not trinocular which is a big down side and the most expensive.
2nd one High quality PCB Industry Lab Microscope 7X-45X Simul-focal Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope with Double Arm Boom Stand
This still has a very sturdy stand much better than the ebay one. It is trinocular and also has simul-focal as a plus. I do like this one but the seller has no reviews or feed back on there site
3rd one High quality PCB Industry Lab Microscope 7X-45X Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope with Double Arm Boom Stand+Adjustable LED ring
This I believe is the same as the second one but does not state weather it has simul-focal which for the same price is not worth it, and again the seller has no feed back or reviews.
They look identical to Amscope models to me as well. Even the listed P/N's start with the same letters (i.e. SMZ).
Do note that despite the Simul-Focal claim in the descriptions of #2 and #3, they're not. Both have the slider that shifts the image from the left eyepiece to the camera tube.
Working distance is tight at 4" IMHO, but as Howardlong stated, it's doable. If it's too tight for you, it's easily fixed with a 0.5x Barlow (gets you 3.5x - 22.5x when installed). ;) And FWIW, I've yet to find a need for more magnification.
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Thanks for pointing out about the simul-focal I did wonder if they where the same. They both looked identical and they both had the same price.
At the moment then number 2 will be my choice and I will see if they supply a barlow 0.5 lens.
One question. If I increased the stand to make the microscope go higher to say 8" will it still be able to focus on the PCB to work with smd soldering. I have never used a microscope so not sure how much modification I can do.
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One question. If I increased the stand to make the microscope go higher to say 8" will it still be able to focus on the PCB to work with smd soldering. I have never used a microscope so not sure how much modification I can do.
For a given lens combination, the distance between the microscope head and the focal plane is fixed. This is roughly 2" with a 2x Barlow, 4" with no Barlow, and 8" with a 0.5x Barlow.
For the PCB to be in focus, it must be at this distance. Obviously if the PCB is raised (for example clamped in a PCB holder), the microscope head will have to be higher up in order to maintain this same distance between the head and PCB surface.
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thanks cowana, so if I understand this with the barlow 0.5 lens I could raise the microscope from the pcb to 8" giving more working room to possible get a heat gun in.
could I go further with a smaller barlow lens of is there another way to get more height.
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Two things are very important to me... depth of field and working distance.
Previously I used a head mounted magnifier... it was very cheap and worked fine but the working distance was too close... too up close and personal with the flux fumes. (I do a lot of hot air work).
But Trinocular and variable magnification... nice if you can afford it.
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thanks cowana, so if I understand this with the barlow 0.5 lens I could raise the microscope from the pcb to 8" giving more working room to possible get a heat gun in.
could I go further with a smaller barlow lens of is there another way to get more height.
Yes, and Yes.
A 0.3x Barlow is available, which will raise the working height to ~11.3" from the board. Be aware there's a serious chance you'll want a stool or even have to stand instead of a chair with this one. I'd wait on this one until you know you need it before buying.
If you're just concerned when the board's mounted in a vise or enclosure for example, you can:- Swap how the microscope head is installed (focus rack above or below the boom arm).
- As well as raise it farther on the main post (not sure of that stand's height).
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thanks nanofrog nice to know. I wont get anything until ive tried it out as you said. Still least I can raise it
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I asked AMscope about a .5x/.3x/.7x barlow for 10x/20s scopes. This is the SE400 I think. They said none available. Which I took as none will fit....?
Is this correct? Anyone know?
You can use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OLMQ1G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A35BV4NHHC5J5C&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OLMQ1G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A35BV4NHHC5J5C&psc=1) (as I am thinking about it) but the price + shipping + taxes to Greece is about $70 which feels like a ripoff comparing to the price of the whole microscope with two set of eyepieces..
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I'll give the standard advice, which I'm surprised others don't seem to have already said.
Buy a used quality scope. It'll be better than a new Chinese one, and the same price. (AmScope is Chinese.)
I bought several Chinese microscopes and was disappointed with every one - went back to Nikon, Zeiss, and Olympus.
For SMD work you want 7x to 15x. Zoom is nice to have, but not really needed. You do need some kind of boom, but it doesn't have to be fancy - just something that'll let you put your PCB under the microscope without banging into anything.
I have two microscopes for SMD work - an American Optical and a 55 year old Olympus SZ. The Olympus is better.
ebay is the place to look. USD $250 should be enough (esp. if you're willing to buy the microscope and boom separately).
Excellent advice here - I fully endorse it: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?3451-Stereo-Microscopes-to-BUY-and-to-AVOID (http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?3451-Stereo-Microscopes-to-BUY-and-to-AVOID)
Don't even think about USB cameras - you need depth perception to do SMD work, and you don't want ANY latency. You want a stereo (not "binocular") optical microscope.
Also for SMD work you don't really need a ring light. A good strong reading lamp - the kind with the little bulb (or LED) on a gooseneck that you can reposition - is fine. (Tho a good ring light is nice to have.)
Good luck!
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The problem with ring lights is that they get in the way during rework with a hot iron, even with a reasonably large working height.
My favorite compromise are the 3W LED gooseneck spots I cited earlier that clip on to the microscope arm assembly near the head. You really need at least two, adjusted to illuminate from opposite directions.
If you want to take video, you will certanly need a lot of light, particularly at higher magnifications. For stills you can just use longer shutter speeds.
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Lots o conflicting advice, here, so far, lol.
Personally, I use 3.5-7x perhaps just as much as I use 7x+. 4-5X for the larger passives and whatnot, down to 0603. And maybe 12-16x for the fine pitch stuff.
I love the LED ring, and I only snuggle up against it with hot air wand, and no big deal. With 0.5x Barlow on the Amscope. I have never accidentally touched it or even noticed it, using an iron.
I also have used essentially the same scope with two different stands, one very basic and one with a fully adjustable double boom. I'm gonna pay $$ for an fully adjustable double arm boom where you can tilt the head in any direction. (I like to angle the head forward by about 10 to 15 degrees.) Maybe same thing as someone who has used high end optics/internals can't ever go back to an Amscope.
Maybe it's best to start out cheap as possible. If you don't know what you're missing, you won't miss it. I have used a digital (not usb) scope with integrated display, and if there was any lag, it wasn't noticeable. To me, stereo vision is nowhere near essential. My own problems with this digital scope were more the limited FOV, working height, and lack of the aforementioned forward tilt I have gotten used to.
BTW, and this isn't directed at anyone in this thread, please don't listen to anyone who knocks Amscope for not being "parfocal." I read this once, from someone who has owned/managed fleets of stereomicroscopes. Their Leica/Nikon stuff was parfocal, but Amscope wasn't. As far as I can tell, if you want a scope to be parfocal, you have to adjust the eye pieces, just so. Somewhere in the middle of the range, it WILL be parfocal. My Amscope is, at least. But if you adjust the eyepiece from this one point, then it won't be. The miscroscope can't be parfocal at EVERY eyepiece adjustment. If your eyes are different prescriptions enough to have to adjust the eyes differently, I don't think you can expect a scope to be parfocal. So the way to do it is to use just your dominant eye and adjust that eyepiece until you achieve parfocality. Then adjust the other eyepiece to suit.
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The problem with ring lights is that they get in the way during rework with a hot iron, even with a reasonably large working height.
That would depend on the specifics IMHO.
Given your comments, I presume you're using the handle/wand at vertical (or nearly so). But this issue can be eliminated easily by using an angled round nozzle. If you're worried about heating surrounding areas, shields/protectors will do a better job than any nozzle alone.
Package specific nozzles could be a problem as they only come one way (straight).
That said, a goose neck fiber optic light can be really useful for reading IC P/N's. Another trick is just use a flashlight/torch at an angle with the ring light turned off*. >:D
* My current method until I free up one of my gooseneck lights.
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^ He said "hot iron," not "hot air," but in hindsight, yeah. He probably had a glitch when he wrote it. "Hot air" makes way more sense.
With head tilted at 10-15 degrees, I can read most all SMD/IC markings just great with LED ring. This is a nice side benefit to the real reason, which is I can see more like I normally do, and it helps locate bridges on leaded IC like SSOP, TSOP. They just stand out more. At really high magnification, you can probably get more of the pin in better focus, too, since the leads are not flat/planar, themselves, but you have to settle for working/inspecting one side of the chip at a time.
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The problem with ring lights is that they get in the way during rework with a hot iron, even with a reasonably large working height.
That would depend on the specifics IMHO.
Given your comments, I presume you're using the handle/wand at vertical (or nearly so). But this issue can be eliminated easily by using an angled round nozzle. If you're worried about heating surrounding areas, shields/protectors will do a better job than any nozzle alone.
Package specific nozzles could be a problem as they only come one way (straight).
That said, a goose neck fiber optic light can be really useful for reading IC P/N's. Another trick is just use a flashlight/torch at an angle with the ring light turned off*. >:D
* My current method until I free up one of my gooseneck lights.
For all but small devices, there's not much of a selection of bent nozzles as far as I am aware.
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I have looked around for used microscopes but not much choice at a good price. I will not buy from USA due to import tax and handling fees. I have bought expensive amp valves from US and ended up paying more in charges than the valves where worth.
Dave92F1 thanks for the link I will have a read over this when I have a bit more time. Although his comments were made in 2008, there has been more start up microscopes companies since then.
As for Chinese microscopes I believe AmScope are made in China and they are rated very good. A lot of products we buy are made in china and some are rebranded to other manufacturers names but still made in China. My previous Oscilloscope and signal generator where both Chinese and very good.
I am still leaning towards the Chinese microscope I mentioned, I understand it will not be excellent quality not due to Chinese made but due to the price tag at £240 is very cheap. Still it looks like a good start up item which can be upgraded when I have more experience in using them.
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For all but small devices, there's not much of a selection of bent nozzles as far as I am aware.
I've only ever seen them in round.
FWIW, I stick to the round nozzles (don't own a single package specific nozzle). Shields/protectors are more useful for keeping the heat where you want it anyway IME.