EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: fanOfeeDIY on May 04, 2018, 06:24:49 am
-
Uploading high resolution picture of Hioki DT4282.
I also uploaded the video of tear down on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/j4V12Ok1Ajg
-
next
-
next
-
next
-
next
-
Last images.
-
Looks good on the inside!
-
The Japanese build quality is unmistakable. I use a DT4282 every day, it’s speed is very impressive. Thanks for the tear down photos and video! While there are a few annoying ergonomic things with this meter it is a high confidence handheld that in some ways feels like a bench meter in a handheld chassis.
-
What are those stripey things? Capacitors?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4282-handheld-multimeter-high-resolution-tear-down-images/?action=dlattach;attach=424198;image)
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
I couldn't find any in the photos. The big chip is a Renesas uC UPD78F1518A with an Analog Devices ADC nearby. The rest of the board is just a huge pile of opamps and analog switches/muxes. They're doing everything themselves and not using one of the all-in-one multimeter chips.
-
@ fungus could they be some precision capacitors
-
They are film SMT capacitors.
-
Wonder why still use color bands these days ? As printing label at SMD component is norm. :-//
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
Looks to me like they "make" it from TTL components. :popcorn:
-
Wonder why still use color bands these days ? As printing label at SMD component is norm. :-//
The whole meter is a bit old-school. Not much integration.
(which can be a good thing - you get to do exactly what you want instead of having to adapt your thoughts to an off-the-shelf IC).
-
@ fungus could they be some precision capacitors
That's what I imagined, I don't see what else they could be.
It's weird that they don't have silk-screen labels when everything else around them does.
-
It's weird that they don't have silk-screen labels when everything else around them does.
What do you mean? They are marked: C211, C56, C32, C58 (I missed the number for one of them).
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
There is no custom chip in this model ( unless they mean the programmed MCU!)
-
It's weird that they don't have silk-screen labels when everything else around them does.
What do you mean? They are marked: C211, C56, C32, C58 (I missed the number for one of them).
Oh, right. I missed the arrows... :palm: :palm: :palm:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4282-handheld-multimeter-high-resolution-tear-down-images/?action=dlattach;attach=425644;image)
(not sure why they couldn't have put it vertically between IC22 and the capacitor, but... nothing to see here. Move along.)
-
Oh, right. I missed the arrows... :palm: :palm: :palm:
My review also has a set of high-res tear down photos: https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMHioki%20DT4282%20UK.html
What you have trouble seeing in one set of photos, might be visible in the other set.
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
There is no custom chip in this model ( unless they mean the programmed MCU!)
Interesting. I thought that there was a Hioki stamped chip in the lower model that Dave tore down in his video a while back. I did some DC voltage comparisons last week with the Hioki DT4282 which is over a year old now and never calibrated against my Keysight U1282A which is still within 1 year of it’s last visit to the cal lab and the Hioki was closer to the readings on my 6.5 digit bench meter than the U1282A on every setting on my DC voltage reference. It also autoranges much faster than the Keysight meter. Whatever Hioki is doing in there it is a very accurate meter for a handheld.
-
First explain that my English is not good and I use Google Translate.
I have a DT4282 that has been in use for more than two years.
The DT4282 has many advantages. Some of its features are not comparable to other hand-held multimeters.
Like its DCV range and resistance range speed, resistance range accuracy, and stability, temperature drift and so on.
There is 1uV resolution and stability of the DCV I appreciate and often use.
There is also a very good frequency response of its ACV.
And its ultra-fast PEAK function.
The above mentioned are far superior to other hand-held multimeters of the same grade.
But I also see many disadvantages it is:
It does not have an analog bar, the continuity test response time is 10mS, the display shows dark,
Only voltage AC+DC function, no current AC+DC function, AC voltage, current speed is not fast,
Capacitance is very slow, and AC voltage and current mantissa are forced to zero within the word is below "999".
Large reading range when the signal above 100 KHz for ACV measurements, and the upper limit for frequency measurement is 500 KHz, and
The frequency of many test signals cannot be displayed, and sometimes the manual switching range does not respond.
PEAK function does not have mV range, AC+DC and AC/DC dual display have no mv range.
The FILTER function has only 600V and 1000V range and no 6V and 60V range.
The recalled stored data and current measurement data cannot be displayed in the same screen.
So I made the following suggestions to the manufacturer:
Functional improvements:
1: Continuity test response time increased to 1ms, and Increase resolution to 0.01OHM
2: Use high-brightness, high-contrast display (just now display is dark)
3: Diode range increases resolution to 0.0001V
4: Open circuit of resistance range is changed to "OL" without flashing
5: Increase the measurement speed of the capacitor
6: Cancel auto-zero function in “999” character of AC range
7: Increase the AC speed and AC/DC dual display measurement speed, and instead when performing AC/DC dual display automatic speed measurement, the ranges of AC and DC are not related and the ranges are independent.
8: Improve the reading stability of the signal above 100KHZ by ACV (currently the reading is too large)
9: Increase the upper limit of the frequency measurement range and improve some frequencies can not be displayed
10: Improvement Sometimes transform Range Does Not Respond
11: Improvement: The “?”, “?” and “RANGE” keys on the right side of the panel together constitute the quick function key for range switching, similar to the desktop multimeter
Increased functionality:
1: PEAK function increases mv range
2: increase the recalled stored data and the current measurement data with the screen display
3: FILTER function increases 6V, 60V range
4: Increase the low impedance mode function
5: Add analog bar display
6: Increase range indication
7: increase the maximum, minimum, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
8: increase the positive peak, negative peak, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
9: AC+DC and AC/DC dual display increase the mv range
10: Add current AC+DC function.
11: Add automatic power off time setting function.
-
So I made the following suggestions to the manufacturer:
Functional improvements:
1: Continuity test response time increased to 1ms, and Increase resolution to 0.01OHM
2: Use high-brightness, high-contrast display (just now display is dark)
3: Diode range increases resolution to 0.0001V
4: Open circuit of resistance range is changed to "OL" without flashing
5: Increase the measurement speed of the capacitor
6: Cancel auto-zero function in “999” character of AC range
7: Increase the AC speed and AC/DC dual display measurement speed, and instead when performing AC/DC dual display automatic speed measurement, the ranges of AC and DC are not related and the ranges are independent.
8: Improve the reading stability of the signal above 100KHZ by ACV (currently the reading is too large)
9: Increase the upper limit of the frequency measurement range and improve some frequencies can not be displayed
10: Improvement Sometimes transform Range Does Not Respond
11: Improvement: The “?”, “?” and “RANGE” keys on the right side of the panel together constitute the quick function key for range switching, similar to the desktop multimeter
Increased functionality:
1: PEAK function increases mv range
2: increase the recalled stored data and the current measurement data with the screen display
3: FILTER function increases 6V, 60V range
4: Increase the low impedance mode function
5: Add analog bar display
6: Increase range indication
7: increase the maximum, minimum, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
8: increase the positive peak, negative peak, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
9: AC+DC and AC/DC dual display increase the mv range
10: Add current AC+DC function.
11: Add automatic power off time setting function.
Have you had any feedback from the manufacture?
Fantastic suggestions. :)
-
Hioki make their own custom multimeter IC which they claim is the reason for the high speed of their meters. Can you see which IC in there has “Hioki” stamped on it? Hard to tell from the pictures.
There is no custom chip in this model ( unless they mean the programmed MCU!)
Interesting. I thought that there was a Hioki stamped chip in the lower model that Dave tore down in his video a while back.
Hioki HAZ01 DMM IC from 2015 is described in hioki technical report. It is fitted to DT425x and DT422x models which have best accuracy of 0.3%.
https://www.hioki.com/file/cmw/hdTechnicalDataEn/30/attached_file/?action=browser&log=1&lang=en (https://www.hioki.com/file/cmw/hdTechnicalDataEn/30/attached_file/?action=browser&log=1&lang=en)
Possibly they could use in this class meter with higher quality external voltage reference. I’m guessing the design of this model is well established and there is no advantage to integration until they do a new model.
-
The DT4282 is missing bar graph, so I’m guessing that after this one has paid its way, a new model using the HAZ01 chip will be coming.
-
The DT4200 series (DT4281 and DT4282) was launched in 2013 and received a Good Design Award. The predates the design of the HAZ01 chip in 2015.
https://www.hioki.com/en/corporate/history/ (https://www.hioki.com/en/corporate/history/)
The previous high end meter Digital HiTester 3805 was designed in 1999 and discontinued in 2013. It was made in Taiwan. (Hioki CAD line drawings available after you have made a MyHioki account.)
The mid-range DT4256 was designed in 2015 replacing the Digital HiTester 3256 from 2001.
The HAZ01 DMM IC was designed to be able to use an external higher precision voltage reference, but Hioki has not yet launched a high end handheld DMM using this capability.
Latest revision is DT4282-41. (https://www.hioki.com/en/support/service/information-by-product/?model_name=4282&product_name= (https://www.hioki.com/en/support/service/information-by-product/?model_name=4282&product_name=))
-
I use a DT4282 at work. Robust enough for a DMM intended for lab use. Ergonomics are quite good (a lot of auxiliary buttons), quite responsive and the backlight turning red is quite handy during continuity tests. We purchased it for its high precision, its safety shutter on probe inputs and the low burden voltage. It wakes from sleep (APS) by pressing any button (version 1.14, I think the initial versions didn't have this).
My only big gripe is the relatively dark display. Contrast and viewing angles are good, but the former would be better had they used a less tinted glass (it's greenish) in front of LCD. Now it requires rather good ambient lighting or to activate the backlight (which is awesome btw). Perhaps you must check this before buying.
A minor gripe is that newer versions still blink the display when resistance reading is above range. It should display an OL, and without blinking at all. It seems they will never fix this ugly "feature".
All in all, it's one of the best high-accuracy DMMs available at this price range. Can't even dare comparing it to the awful Fluke 289.
-
A minor gripe is that newer versions still blink the display when resistance reading is above range. It should display an OL, and without blinking at all. It seems they will never fix this ugly "feature".
that bug gets me too, I don't know what were they thinking there.
All in all, it's one of the best high-accuracy DMMs available at this price range. Can't even dare comparing it to the awful Fluke 289.
from my experience with Japanese products, they are always more "Usable" than US-made or even German-made products, they just cut the Bullshit and go straight to the point, and I'm sure this product is no exception to that.
but may I ask:
Why do you think HIOKI DT4282 is way better than Fluke 289?
Is there any specific reason(s) behind that point of view?
-
First explain that my English is not good and I use Google Translate.
I have a DT4282 that has been in use for more than two years.
The DT4282 has many advantages. Some of its properties are unmatched by other multimeters.
Like its DCV range and resistance range speed, resistance range accuracy, and stability, temperature drift and so on.
There is 1uV resolution and stability of the DCV I appreciate and often use.
There is also a very good frequency response of its ACV.
And its ultra-fast PEAK function.
The above mentioned are far superior to other hand-held multimeters of the same grade.
But I also see many disadvantages it is:
It does not have an analog bar, the continuity test response time is 10mS, the display shows dark,
Only voltage AC+DC function, no current AC+DC function, AC voltage, current speed is not fast,
Capacitance is very slow, and AC voltage and current mantissa are forced to zero within the word is below "999".
Large reading range when the signal above 100 KHz for ACV measurements, and the upper limit for frequency measurement is 500 KHz, and
The frequency of many test signals cannot be displayed, and sometimes the manual switching range does not respond.
PEAK function does not have mV range, AC+DC and AC/DC dual display have no mv range.
The FILTER function has only 600V and 1000V range and no 6V and 60V range.
The recalled stored data and current measurement data cannot be displayed in the same screen.
So I made the following suggestions to the manufacturer:
Functional improvements:
1: Continuity test response time increased to 1ms, and Increase resolution to 0.01OHM
2: Use high-brightness, high-contrast display (just now display is dark)
3: Diode range increases resolution to 0.0001V
4: Open circuit of resistance range is changed to "OL" without flashing
5: Increase the measurement speed of the capacitor
6: Cancel auto-zero function in “999” character of AC range
7: Increase the AC speed and AC/DC dual display measurement speed, and instead when performing AC/DC dual display automatic speed measurement, the ranges of AC and DC are not related and the ranges are independent.
8: Improve the reading stability of the signal above 100KHZ by ACV (currently the reading is too large)
9: Increase the upper limit of the frequency measurement range and improve some frequencies can not be displayed
10: Improvement Sometimes transform Range Does Not Respond
11: Improvement: The “?”, “?” and “RANGE” keys on the right side of the panel together constitute the quick function key for range switching, similar to the desktop multimeter
Increased functionality:
1: PEAK function increases mv range
2: increase the recalled stored data and the current measurement data with the screen display
3: FILTER function increases 6V, 60V range
4: Increase the low impedance mode function
5: Add analog bar display
6: Increase range indication
7: increase the maximum, minimum, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
8: increase the positive peak, negative peak, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
9: AC+DC and AC/DC dual display increase the mv range
10: Add current AC+DC function.
11: Add automatic power off time setting function.
-
Why do you think HIOKI DT4282 is way better than Fluke 289?
Is there any specific reason(s) behind that point of view?
Maybe he was refered to the display readability. Other than that is a nonsense ...
P.S. For those that are complain of quality of Hioki DT4282 display, there is a worse case (also japanese): Yokogava/Kyoritsu TY720/KEW 1062. And this is more expensive.