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Author Topic: New Hioki Multimeer and first project  (Read 11766 times)

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McCarthy

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New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« on: August 20, 2015, 02:08:09 pm »
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« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 12:41:29 pm by McCarthy »
 

Offline deadlylover

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 03:04:22 pm »
Looks good!

Very interesting multimeter, are you going to be doing a mini review/teardown?
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 03:52:37 pm »
One thing that's strange with these Hiokis, is how they put a big LCD screen on them, but then the readings only use a fraction of it. They look interesting though.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 04:40:15 pm »
One thing that's strange with these Hiokis, is how they put a big LCD screen on them, but then the readings only use a fraction of it.
If you look at their brochure at

https://www.hioki.com/filedownload/series_DT4200E5-55M.pdf?t=catalog&iid=1_1257

you will see that the lcd screen is split into almost 33% each.  The top shows the status of the multimeter, the middle shows the main reading, and the bottom shows the secondary reading.

I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset.  Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so.  Most other companies use off the shelf chipsets from Fortune, Cyrustek, etc.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 11:56:01 pm by retiredcaps »
 

Offline TiN

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 04:47:19 pm »
Nice pic :)

P.S. Those resistors are not 0.05ppm TCR, they are more like ~1ppm usually.
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Offline rvalente

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 08:38:27 pm »
TAKE IT APART! TEARDOWN! I WANNA SEE SHE NAKED!
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 09:53:42 pm »
I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset.  Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so.
Found it.

http://www.testequity.com/documents/pdf/hioki/DT4200-series.pdf
 

Offline ez24

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 10:28:02 pm »
Quote
Very interesting multimeter, are you going to be doing a mini review/teardown?

How many people do a teardown on a $500 meter?  Does even Dave do that?

Maybe someone should do a $500 meter shoot out test  :box:   hint hint Dave
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Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 10:33:22 pm »
How many people do a teardown on a $500 meter?  Does even Dave do that?
Huh, have you seen Dave's videos? Dave has taken apart the Fluke 28 II, Gossen Metrahit Energy Multimeter Teardown, Keithley DMM7510 just to name a few.

Martin takes apart his Fluke 289 on his channel.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2015, 10:45:48 pm »
http://www.amazon.com/Dranetz-Metrawatt-M249AKIT1-Multimeter-Measurement/dp/B00E3Y60TY

Holy cow - how about a drop test  :-+   Probably designed for the Mars mission.

I was thinking $500 handheld tear downs and you showed that Dave did 2.  I am sure 2 more than anyone else.
tks
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Offline timofonic

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2015, 11:52:33 pm »
I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset.  Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so.
Found it.

http://www.testequity.com/documents/pdf/hioki/DT4200-series.pdf

Do they use the same ASIC for all their DMMs? It would be interesting to know it.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 11:55:01 pm »
Do they use the same ASIC for all their DMMs? It would be interesting to know it.
No.  On their lower end models, they use off the shelf chipsets from the vendors I mentioned.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2015, 11:57:16 pm »
 

Offline timofonic

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 12:09:49 am »
Do they use the same ASIC for all their DMMs? It would be interesting to know it.
No.  On their lower end models, they use off the shelf chipsets from the vendors I mentioned.

Cheeky to read that part, sorry.

Can you release what models and chips? Please...
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 12:14:11 am »
Cheeky to read that part, sorry.

Can you release what models and chips? Please...
As their brochure shows, their chipset is on the DT4280, 4250 and 4220 series.

On the DT4525, you can see the Hioki chip in this teardown

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4252-teardown/

In the 4210 series, see

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-42114212-quality/
 

Offline saturation

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2015, 12:29:17 pm »
Hioki makes good meters but the early teardowns on this forum are puzzling.

Its been several years since earlier DMMs in that Hioki series were released and I still cannot find a mention of any NRTL safety testing mark beyond Hioki's own "CE."   Does anyone here know it exists?

Back in 2013, a teardown was done and this is how the DT4252 input stage appears, the COM [center terminal] and 10A input [ lower right] traces are a bit close for creepage comfort.

The designers were aware of the risk and gave due creepage and clearance of V input [ left most jack] from commons, center terminal.

You can easily follow the tracing to the fuse, and note the other end of the fuse is close to the 10A input jack and the tracings are very close to each other, almost shorting across the fuse.

Granted, this is a low impedance path if the fuse is working, but if the fuse blows and the circuit involved high enough voltage, you'd have the same concerns that keep the V input and COM terminal clearance separated as they already did.

Only final NRTL testing can tell for sure.  Hioki could use a special PCB chemistry or conformal caot to provide high insulation.



In the DT4281 PCB, a similar issue is present.  One can see the traces on the PCB for each input jack.



Compare to the traces of NRTL marked meters, the Keysight 1271a and the 87V, you can see how wide the distances are between terminals and better yet, they are cut out for the blast shield to improve isolation.



« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 12:33:36 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2015, 04:09:41 pm »
TAKE IT APART! TEARDOWN! I WANNA SEE SHE NAKED!
The DT4281 has already been taken apart.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4281-multimeter-teardown-and-first-impression/

I know, but I'd like to see further details on this DMM, looks very very good!
I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset.  Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so.
Found it.

http://www.testequity.com/documents/pdf/hioki/DT4200-series.pdf

Probably they partnership with someone, like the ADC in Fluke 87V28II and 117 (I believe 177/179 as well), its made by Linear Tech, probably its a boosted version of a regular product. The old Fluke 8020 used a faster version of the classic Intersil ICL710x series.
 

Offline timofonic

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2015, 08:53:47 pm »
TAKE IT APART! TEARDOWN! I WANNA SEE SHE NAKED!
The DT4281 has already been taken apart.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4281-multimeter-teardown-and-first-impression/

I know, but I'd like to see further details on this DMM, looks very very good!
I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset.  Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so.
Found it.

http://www.testequity.com/documents/pdf/hioki/DT4200-series.pdf

Probably they partnership with someone, like the ADC in Fluke 87V28II and 117 (I believe 177/179 as well), its made by Linear Tech, probably its a boosted version of a regular product. The old Fluke 8020 used a faster version of the classic Intersil ICL710x series.

It would be interesting to know that. Are there some not so difficult way to reverse engineer the IC and compare it with others?
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2015, 10:15:54 pm »
Guys from ifixit.com make regular teardowns from many apple and samsung products, they even have a partnership with a company call chipworks, who is specialized in reverse engineering.

If you send your cool hioki for a destructive test and pay some grands I'm sure they'll be very precise telling what's inside..
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2015, 12:21:24 am »
chipworks guys have been around for a long time, they do investigative patent work.. Many years ago I remember them doing decapping and microscope shots of various newly released x86 chips. This was back in the day when x86 was interesting, when Cyrix, AMD, NexGen were competitive to Intel.
 

Offline eas

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Re: New Hioki Multimeer and first project
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2015, 01:50:55 am »
Probably they partnership with someone, like the ADC in Fluke 87V28II and 117 (I believe 177/179 as well), its made by Linear Tech, probably its a boosted version of a regular product. The old Fluke 8020 used a faster version of the classic Intersil ICL710x series.
Not quite. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/history-of-the-fluke-8020-series/

 


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