How come Hioki multimeters dont get mentioned more offten?

[EEVblog]

It never occurred to me that two or more “OFF” positions on a meter could be so important to others...

I wouldn't be bothered on most DMMs- the only reason it would be important on the Hioki is that it has physical shutters on the 4mm sockets, so you can't turn it off if there's a plug in either of the current sockets.

Gossen has the shutters too.

[beatman]

I use the last 6 months the 4261 amazing multimeter.In comparision with my fluke 177 and 179 the hioki is big meter with less money.

[pdenisowski]

Why?
1) Price AU$750, EU$568, US$490 street prices.
2) Marketing (or lack of)

Exactly this. 

It's also important to keep in in mind that Hioki is much better known and much more talked about in Japan(ese) than in "the West"

For example, a couple of years back Ichiken (the Dave Jones of Japanese YouTube ) did a great compare of Hioki with a cheap meter .... but it's all in Japanese.

[rsjsouza]

From the 70s to the 90s both Hioki and Sanwa had a strong presence in the Brazilian market, whose brand was probably introduced by the Japanese technicians and engineers that worked for the large telecom and TV industries.

Ages ago I took a hard look at the DT4282, but I think that for my purposes its rival from Sanwa is much more applicable, the PC7000. https://www.sanwa-america.com/products/pc7000-digital-multimeter-with-true-rms-and-pc-link

[EEVblog]

Ages ago I took a hard look at the DT4282, but I think that for my purposes its rival from Sanwa is much more applicable, the PC7000. https://www.sanwa-america.com/products/pc7000-digital-multimeter-with-true-rms-and-pc-link

500,000 count, nice.

[HKJ]

Ages ago I took a hard look at the DT4282, but I think that for my purposes its rival from Sanwa is much more applicable, the PC7000. https://www.sanwa-america.com/products/pc7000-digital-multimeter-with-true-rms-and-pc-link

500,000 count, nice.

It is OEM version of a Brymen.

[Aldo22]

500,000 count, nice.

Yes, but only for DCV.
Besides, with 0.03%, its accuracy isn't that much better than the $30 ZT-225, which has 25,000 counts and 0.05%. I find the Zoyi more honest in that regard.
What’s particularly odd: The Sanwa only has a resolution of 0.01 mV, while the cheap Zoyi has 0.001 mV (with several GΩ of input impedance).

Everything’s fine, but for that much more money, I’d like a DMM that’s better than a cheap one in every respect.

[KungFuJosh]

Price and datasheet specs aren't everything. I don't immediate believe a $30 DMM's datasheets claims to being better than meters that cost significantly more. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is improbable.

[Aldo22]

Price and datasheet specs aren't everything. I don't immediate believe a $30 DMM's datasheets claims to being better than meters that cost significantly more. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is improbable.

See here

 

[KungFuJosh]

See here

 

Very cool. Now compare it with a real calibrated source against another calibrated meter.

[Aldo22]

See here

 

Very cool. Now compare it with a real calibrated source against another calibrated meter.

This has already been tested several times by various people. 





AN SZ20=ZT-225 (Paul Taylor):

[KungFuJosh]

This has already been tested several times by various people. 

That's cool. I'm sure you'll forgive me for trusting a Fluke calibrator more than an open-air AliExpress voltage source.

That said, somebody pickier than me might want to know if that Fluke calibrator was in cal.

[Martin72]

If I only need to measure to 2 or 3 decimal places, even a multimeter from a gum machine will do.

[floobydust]

No MOVs, either a gas tube or nothing - this is what we have to choose from? Will pass on Cat. III or VFD use.

[David Hess]

It never occurred to me that two or more “OFF” positions on a meter could be so important to others...

Besides the convenience, it is one of the few things we can evaluate other than the specifications.  We cannot see noise, linearity, charge pumping, input resistance, etc., which are commonly missing from the specifications, but we can see the jack spacing, off positions, whether the overall shape will fit in a case, etc.

I do not like the modern "hourglass" shape.  I know the idea is that it is easier to grip, but it makes the meter fit poorly in a case.  Instead include rubber bumpers or a rubber sleeve.

Wasn't there a meter with a curved bottom that could not sit upright?  Maybe that was a phone.

What I do not like is when OFF is not last position...
For instance LoZ on BM789..

Oh, that is even worse than only having one off position.

Who thought that design was a good idea?  (I know why it was done)

No one said the majority is "right" or "wrong" here. Just that the majority don't use that functionality.
I'd prefer having 15V diode test mode, or <0.25V ohms mode, 18650 battery, or whatever other function I think is important. But its a stretch to say its poorly engineered for not having it.

There is a good reason that the high voltage diode test mode of old multimeters was limited to 5 and then 3 volts; reverse breakdown of a base-emitter junction will damage a bipolar transistor.

Compatibility with standard batteries is important, but if a rechargeable battery is used, it should be user replaceable, which is a problem with lithium-ion cells.  What happened to multimeter designs which ran for 2000 hours on a 9V battery?  Today one is lucky to get 200 hours.

yes the beckmen series from the 80s were/are excellent meters, I still have a pair of HD110 meters, their getting on for +40 years old and still measure like new, rotary switches still perfect, designed to last, 1500Vdc which is really useful, where as I have a fluke 73 from the same period and it measures all over the place, I keep meaning to throw it out 

I had a Tech 310 for many years until I left it out in the sun and the LCD turned black.  I miss the 2000 hour battery life and exceptional rotary switch.  It violated the banana jack spacing rule, but I replaced it with the RMS225 solving that problem.

I wouldn't be bothered on most DMMs- the only reason it would be important on the Hioki is that it has physical shutters on the 4mm sockets, so you can't turn it off if there's a plug in either of the current sockets.

Why are shutters a desirable feature?

It's also important to keep in in mind that Hioki is much better known and much more talked about in Japan(ese) than in "the West"

That is hardly unexpected.  I was very interested in APPA multimeters (Taiwan) as a replacement for my DMM916, but they are practically unavailable in the US.

[rsjsouza]

While the Zoyi indeed looks quite the champ w.r.t. accuracy and resolution, my track record of them (and their OEMs) in regards to durability of their rotary switch, overall electrical weakness, uneven manufacturing quality control are not quite stellar.

Naturally, while I don't yet have the PC7000, the other Sanwa meters I used or have held up quite well over the years. Even the tiny EEVBlog's PM300 is still a champ and follows me around everywhere (bought years ago on Dave's sale).

[mikeselectricstuff]

I wouldn't be bothered on most DMMs- the only reason it would be important on the Hioki is that it has physical shutters on the 4mm sockets, so you can't turn it off if there's a plug in either of the current sockets.

Why are shutters a desirable feature?

For me they're not, they're just annoying and I'll probably remove them at some point.
I suspect they're sold as a benefit to inexperienced users, or employers trying to tick "workplace safety" boxes, and/or where blowing an upstream fuse by accidentally connecting a meter on current range could cause expensive downtime.
Perhaps also for very dusty environments to reduce contamination, though they'd probably jam at some point

[Aldo22]

While the Zoyi indeed looks quite the champ w.r.t. accuracy and resolution, my track record of them (and their OEMs) in regards to durability of their rotary switch, overall electrical weakness, uneven manufacturing quality control are not quite stellar.

There are certainly reasons why some DMMs cost x times as much.
For most hobbyists, however, the AN870 and ZT-225 are built robustly enough.
Personally, I haven't had any problems with the quality so far. You get a precise measuring device for very little money.
Professionals/electricians don't buy these for their daily work—that much is clear.

[KungFuJosh]

It's the typical "pick two" game:
Low price | Durable | Precise

[pdenisowski]

If I only need to measure to 2 or 3 decimal places, even a multimeter from a gum machine will do.

Not quite a "gum machine" meter, but close!

[Zucca]

If I only need to measure to 2 or 3 decimal places, even a multimeter from a gum machine will do.

Not quite a "gum machine" meter, but close!

(Attachment Link)

That box with the arrow for wrapping the probes is far superior in many others $$$ portable meters.

It seems a soft carrying zip bag is the golden standard, and I think we deserve better.

[David Hess]

That box with the arrow for wrapping the probes is far superior in many others $$$ portable meters.

It seems a soft carrying zip bag is the golden standard, and I think we deserve better.

Multimeters are so expensive and difficult to replace, that I now buy hard cases to store and transport them.

[KungFuJosh]

Nanuk cases are my favorite. Excellent quality, especially the latches.

[floobydust]

[...] I had a Tech 310 for many years until I left it out in the sun and the LCD turned black.  I miss the 2000 hour battery life and exceptional rotary switch.  It violated the banana jack spacing rule, but I replaced it with the RMS225 solving that problem.

I've used TECH310 for over 45 years, it's my favorite only got burned once from the high 22MEG input resistance when I needed LowZ that day.
Then I got HD110, TECH360 etc. and keep them running (LCD, zebra strips etc.) Made in USA. Battery life is amazing. I know their quirks.
All my Taiwan multimeters are not great, a notch above china but they still flake out enough that I keep them in the hobby DMM pile.


Cost of multimeter ownership is something not discussed enough.
A single problem where you need repair parts, or have to ship it out can too much money and time with customs paperwork.
Most companies have sales/distribution channels- and support ends there.
Hioki North America in Texas covers USA, Canada, Mexico.
Sanwa Electric seems to be Sanwa USA or Sper Scientific which are all about the sale. "Please note that any approved warranty services/repairs will be forwarded to the Sanwa factory in Japan for processing."
Brymen have no service/support in North America.
With many of these, any problems and in the trash they go.

[David Hess]

Nanuk cases are my favorite. Excellent quality, especially the latches.

I prefer a simpler latch without the double latching mechanism; I keep locking the second latch and then have to release it to latch the main latch.  What I do like, at least compared to the Penguin cases, is that the Nanuk 910 case is slimmer.