Author Topic: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?  (Read 5894 times)

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Offline TracelessTopic starter

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How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« on: September 18, 2022, 09:27:17 am »
Hey everyone, how do you protect you handheld meters and other devices from battery leakage? I've recenetly experienced another set of energizer AAA cells wet themselves. Putting batteries into my meters before and removing them after each use is kinda impractical. Most of my meters require at least one screw to be remove to access the battery and most of them only have plastic screw threads which would probably wear out quickly, even if you are careful and try to reuse the old thread every time you put the screw back in. For the better meters it is even more of a hassle because you have to remove the silicone sleeve first.

I wonder if there are Li-Ion packs available, that fit into a standard 2/3/4 AA or AAA battery compartment. How do you protect your stuff?
 

Online iMo

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2022, 09:48:14 am »
There are AA li-ion batteries with usb charger and 1.5V switcher mounted inside the battery body (with up to 1600mAh, but I would be a bit skeptical about that).
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 09:55:46 am by imo »
Readers discretion is advised..
 
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Offline alm

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2022, 10:04:48 am »
I use low self discharge (e.g. Eneloop) NiMH batteries in all my equipment that takes AA/AAA/9V batteries. No problems with leakage, and battery life is fine. If I wanted more battery life or low temperature performance, I'd look at primary lithium batteries, but they are expensive and you need to check if your equipment can take the slightly higher voltage.
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2022, 10:13:14 am »
I use LSD Ni-MH or Ni-Zn for AAA and AA, and Li-ion PP3's. Even in stuff like remote controls. If I could use rechargeable AG13's I would.
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Offline TracelessTopic starter

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pm »
There are AA li-ion batteries with usb charger and 1.5V switcher mounted inside the battery body (with up to 1600mAh, but I would be a bit skeptical about that).

Thanks imo I did not know  those USB-rechargable batteries existed. Unfortunately we don't seem to have the Fenix brand here in Europe. What is available here seems to bei either no name or brands I haven't heard of. Does anyone have experience with one of those Brand (e.g. Hixon, Hakadi, Kratax ...)?

I use low self discharge (e.g. Eneloop) NiMH batteries in all my equipment that takes AA/AAA/9V batteries. No problems with leakage, and battery life is fine. If I wanted more battery life or low temperature performance, I'd look at primary lithium batteries, but they are expensive and you need to check if your equipment can take the slightly higher voltage.

I've used the Eneloops only for my DECT phone so far. They died pretty quickly within a year or so. They didn't leak but also didn't charge any more. I guess that was due to the memory effect and the way DECT phones are used (discharge only a fraction of the capacity during a call and put the device back into the charging station). In handheld meters this will probably be less of a problem. However I'd expect the lower voltage to be a problem - For instance I have a meter that runs on 3V (2 AAA in series) with NiMH I'd only get 2.4 V at best which I expect to be trouble. Do you have any experience how battery powered test equipment deals with those lower voltages?

Also looking at the amazon reviews Eneloops (Or NiMH batteries in general) don't seem to be 100% leak-proof either.

I use LSD Ni-MH or Ni-Zn for AAA and AA, and Li-ion PP3's. Even in stuff like remote controls. If I could use rechargeable AG13's I would.

Ni-Zn batteries look interesting in contrast to Ni-MH they seem to deliver 1.6V (I guess running with <= 110% of the rated voltage should be safe). Can you recommend any brand and good charger for the Ni-ZN cells? I guess your regular Ni-MH charger won't work for those.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 12:16:50 pm by Traceless »
 

Offline alm

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2022, 12:26:39 pm »
I've used the Eneloops only for my DECT phone so far. They died pretty quickly within a year or so. They didn't leak but also didn't charge any more. I guess that was due to the memory effect and the way DECT phones are used (discharge only a fraction of the capacity during a call and put the device back into the charging station). In handheld meters this will probably be less of a problem.
DECT phones are a special case due to their almost constant charging. They sell special batteries for this (Eneloop Lite, I believe) that cope better. In general NiMH does not like constant charging, unlike NiCd.

However I'd expect the lower voltage to be a problem - For instance I have a meter that runs on 3V (2 AAA in series) with NiMH I'd only get 2.4 V at best which I expect to be trouble. Do you have any experience how battery powered test equipment deals with those lower voltages?
It's not been a problem in any of the equipment that I use. Equipment made in the past two decades is generally designed with NiMH batteries in mind. The only exception I've seen was a cheap Mastech LCR meter that would constantly indicate low battery, but would work fine either way. My Fluke 189 DMM works perfectly on NiMH batteries (4xAA). The discharge curve of NiMH is much flatter than alkaline and the output impedance is lower, so in practice the difference is much smaller than the full capacity open circuit voltage suggests.

Also looking at the amazon reviews Eneloops (Or NiMH batteries in general) don't seem to be 100% leak-proof either.
Clearly, but there appear to be much fewer reports of NiMH batteries leaking. I've only seen it in really old batteries that had been in storage for years. Due to the need to charge, I inspect NiMH batteries more often than back when I was using alkaline.
 
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Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2022, 12:32:42 pm »
Ni-Zn isn't a good idea. I have a number of them and I throw them away. They don't hold charge well and plus most meter doesn't need the full 1.5V to run. NiMH are fine for voltages. But the meter is a low drain device so you need to use Eneloop because other NiMH would have too fast self discharge rate.
I do agree removing the battery is a pain.
Now while Energizer alkaline AA leaks does Energizer Lithium AA leak? If they don't I think I would use them. Kinda expensive but I don't want to ruin my meters.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2022, 12:36:44 pm »
Also looking at the amazon reviews Eneloops (Or NiMH batteries in general) don't seem to be 100% leak-proof either.
Does not appear to have leaked anything outside. If NiMH "leaks" it's just some crystals on terminals at worst, and it's really hare. Unlike Alkalines which totally trash the device.
 
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Offline alm

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2022, 12:40:55 pm »
Now while Energizer alkaline AA leaks does Energizer Lithium AA leak? If they don't I think I would use them. Kinda expensive but I don't want to ruin my meters.
I have seen 9V lithium batteries (I don't remember the brand) used in smoke detectors leak a blue liquid. It did not seem corrosive to me. I could just wipe it off.

But I believe lithium AA batteries have an initial voltage of 1.7 V. I'm not sure if all equipment can deal with this.
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2022, 12:51:03 pm »
Ni-Zn batteries look interesting in contrast to Ni-MH they seem to deliver 1.6V (I guess running with <= 110% of the rated voltage should be safe). Can you recommend any brand and good charger for the Ni-ZN cells? I guess your regular Ni-MH charger won't work for those.

I use Turnigy brand cells from Hobby King. The LSD Ni-MH consistently exceed their stated capacity, and they are good value. I use a bench psu to charge the Ni-Zn, a bit naughty I know...



Ni-Zn isn't a good idea. I have a number of them and I throw them away. They don't hold charge well and plus most meter doesn't need the full 1.5V to run. NiMH are fine for voltages. But the meter is a low drain device so you need to use Eneloop because other NiMH would have too fast self discharge rate.
I do agree removing the battery is a pain.
Now while Energizer alkaline AA leaks does Energizer Lithium AA leak? If they don't I think I would use them. Kinda expensive but I don't want to ruin my meters.

Why would you throw them away? They work perfectly well for me. I use them in my Fluke 289, without any problems; I use the meter pretty much daily and only need to recharge every few months. Also there's no need to pay the exorbitant premium for eneloops, Turnigy are just as good and a fair bit cheaper.

Ni-MH are not always fine for use in DMMs, there are cases where the voltage is too low and causes the low voltage shutoff too soon, iirc the 121GW is such a case (though I'm happy to be corrected if it isn't).
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Offline TracelessTopic starter

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2022, 01:08:42 pm »
But I believe lithium AA batteries have an initial voltage of 1.7 V. I'm not sure if all equipment can deal with this.

I haven't used non-rechargable lithium batteries yet, but according to their spec they deliver 1.5V just like their alkaline counterparts. They are expensive though, but especially in more expensive test gear spending a few more bucks on a batteries seems to be reasonable considering the cost of the equipment it may damage (like Daves Fluke 3000 that was recently killed by Energizer alkalines, I still wonder if @EEVBlog tried to get a replacement under the Energizer no-leak warrranty. They honored the warranty for one of my devices, but that was considerably cheaper than the fluke - I'd really be interested to see what happens when they have to replace expensive gear).

Energizer claims that it would be impossible for their Lithium batteries to leak:
Code: [Select]
Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ Batteries are GUARANTEED NOT TO LEAK. Due to advanced technology, Ultimate lithium™ batteries will not leak under normal consumer usage. If you believe that you have a leaking Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ battery, contact 1-800-383-7323 for return instructions.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 01:19:03 pm by Traceless »
 

Offline Vincent

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2022, 01:30:00 pm »
I'm one of those peasants who just takes the batteries out of something whenever said something isn't used for a while.  :P

I'll assume the question is more specifically about a particular choice of batteries that may prevent leakage or make it less likely. In that regard I go carbon-zinc. In my now-almost-ancient Mastercraft 52-0052-2 multimeter (a rebranded Colluck HH2205L), even a carbon-zinc 9V battery lasts plenty of time. They probably leak if discharged deep enough but in this specific case the battery is out way before it reaches that point so leaks are very unlikely to happen.

Plus carbon-zincs are so cheap, and in the case of 1.5V cells I've got graphite rods I can use for other purposes once extracted and cleaned.  :-+
 
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Offline robert.rozee

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2022, 01:48:24 pm »
I'll assume the question is more specifically about a particular choice of batteries that may prevent leakage or make it less likely. In that regard I go carbon-zinc   [...]   Plus carbon-zincs are so cheap, and in the case of 1.5V cells I've got graphite rods I can use for other purposes once extracted and cleaned.  :-+

you beat me (by a few minutes) to mentioning carbon-zinc.

an interesting ad i happened across, looking for the cheapest source of carbon-zinc cells in NZ:
https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/eveready-carbon-zinc-battery-aa-pack-of-50/p/349581

while less than 50 cents each, also noteworthy is the writing on the package, "Leak Resistance Guaranteed":



this suggests the manufacturer is well aware that other battery technologies DO leak!


cheers,
rob   :-)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 01:52:09 pm by robert.rozee »
 
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Offline alm

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2022, 02:00:06 pm »
Also there's no need to pay the exorbitant premium for eneloops, Turnigy are just as good and a fair bit cheaper.
Yep, I can't comment on Turnigy specifically, but there are several brands of good low-self-discharge NiMH batteries.

Ni-MH are not always fine for use in DMMs, there are cases where the voltage is too low and causes the low voltage shutoff too soon, iirc the 121GW is such a case (though I'm happy to be corrected if it isn't).
I don't own a 121GW. I see both reports of NiMH batteries having problems in the 121GW, and people saying it works fine. Maybe there was a firmware update?

I haven't used non-rechargable lithium batteries yet, but according to their spec they deliver 1.5V just like their alkaline counterparts.
The initial voltage is higher than 1.5V and can cause problems in some devices, like the 121GW ;).

Energizer claims that it would be impossible for their Lithium batteries to leak:
Code: [Select]
Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ Batteries are GUARANTEED NOT TO LEAK. Due to advanced technology, Ultimate lithium™ batteries will not leak under normal consumer usage. If you believe that you have a leaking Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ battery, contact 1-800-383-7323 for return instructions.
That's not saying it's impossible, it just says it will not leak under whatever they deem normal usage, and that they will reimburse you if they do leak. Is that very different from what they say about alkaline batteries?
 
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Online wraper

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2022, 02:02:11 pm »
Carbon-zinc batteries leak just as bad as alkalines. It's just that currently alkalines are more prevalent now so you see them leaking more often.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2022, 02:10:40 pm »
Also as long as device does not shut down with single cell voltage above 1.2V (which would be a crappy device wasting almost half of the alkaline battery capacity), there are basically no downsides in using LSD NiMH cells.
 
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Online bdunham7

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2022, 03:02:54 pm »
I haven't used non-rechargable lithium batteries yet, but according to their spec they deliver 1.5V just like their alkaline counterparts. They are expensive though, but especially in more expensive test gear spending a few more bucks on a batteries seems to be reasonable

I've not had the Varta version, but the Energizer Ultimates have an OCV of ~1.8V initially and ~1.7V when totally dead.  The cell impedance goes up as they discharge (or get cold).  Their best use cases are devices that are only used very rarely (low LSD, no leakage, device will be OK for 10 years plus) or the occasional poorly designed product that can't cope with the appropriate range of voltages seen from normal batteries over their life.  Otherwise they cost too much and don't have that much longer of a useful life than good NiMH.  My supposedly battery-hungry Fluke 289 will log for over a week with Eneloops.

One option not mentioned thus far are the two-cell Li-Ion 9V battery replacements.  Large capacity, low internal impedance, low self discharge, no leakage--they're my new go-to for smoke detectors and meters that take the 9V type.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2022, 03:04:10 pm »
Hey everyone, how do you protect you handheld meters and other devices from battery leakage?

a) Don't use alkaline batteries.
 
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Offline 25 CPS

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2022, 04:09:47 pm »
I ended up putting my handheld test equipment and a bunch of other things onto an annual preventative maintenance plan after having leaks destroy two Agilent U1177A IR/BT adapters and damage a multimeter, and had batteries leak in other things like flashlights, wireless weather station receivers etc.  The details are over in the Test Equipment Anonymous thread.

I seriously think the major downside of long battery life is that it can end up being too long and invite batteries to leak before they run down and force a replacement with new ones.
 
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Offline TracelessTopic starter

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2022, 04:24:30 pm »
Carbon-zinc batteries leak just as bad as alkalines. It's just that currently alkalines are more prevalent now so you see them leaking more often.

Sounds almost like you have some first hand experience with leaking zinc carbon batteries. alm mentioned above that while lithium batteries do leak they seem no be less (non?)-corrosive. Do you know if zinc carbon leakage is less/more/just as bad as alkaline leakage?
 

Offline robert.rozee

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2022, 04:34:35 pm »
Carbon-zinc batteries leak just as bad as alkalines. It's just that currently alkalines are more prevalent now so you see them leaking more often.

i'm not entirely convinced of this.

from reading the wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery), an alkaline cell has a "pressure expansion seal" at the base (under the negative cap). that such an expansion seal is needed points to pressure build-up inside not being uncommon.

a zinc-carbon cell, again from a wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E2%80%93carbon_battery) is mechanically far simpler, lacking an expansion seal. it appears that any pressure is alleviated via the carbon rod (that exits the cell-proper under the positive cap) being porous. however, the zinc casing of the cell is consumed over time, and that may release contents.


so both have issues, but different issues. certainly, in the last 10 years i have noticed alkaline cells having a disproportionate proclivity to damage/wreck equipment; i don't recall ever having something damaged by a leaking zinc-carbon cell.

one solution may be the invention of a 2xAA case, containing a Li-Ion 'pouch' cell and series dropper diode. i have seen Li-Ion cells being used as single-use in some chinese-manufactured products.


cheers,
rob   :-)
 

Online wraper

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2022, 04:47:31 pm »
I don't care about what wiki says since I had both types leak into my devices.
 

Offline TracelessTopic starter

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2022, 04:53:24 pm »
one solution may be the invention of a 2xAA case, containing a Li-Ion 'pouch' cell and series dropper diode. i have seen Li-Ion cells being used as single-use in some chinese-manufactured products.
cheers,
rob   :-)

Yeah I had something like this in mind when in my original post:

I wonder if there are Li-Ion packs available, that fit into a standard 2/3/4 AA or AAA battery compartment.

I have seen LiIon battery packs in phones, notebooks etc. bulge but they did never spill any liquids. If one would simply make an 2/3/4 AA or AAA shaped plastic casing with contacts on the top and bottom put a LiIon pack inside and then seal the plastic casing that would be pretty much leak-proof. It would also likely have a much longer durability and capacity compared to regular AA/AAA rechargables.
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2022, 05:00:26 pm »
I'm using low self-discharge Ni-MH rechargeable, brand TRONIC energy eco (bought from LIDL).
They really are low at self-discharging, I recharge them (for the DMM) once a year or so.

Their color scheme looks like this:  https://budgetlightforum.com/node/55247
They come in format AA, AAA, C and 6HR61 9V(7.2V), all the same brand, name and color scheme.
 
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Offline Vincent

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Re: How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2022, 05:16:20 pm »
Is it possible that alkalines and carbon-zincs will leak in different contexts?

In my experience, you better not forget alkaline batteries in a device for extended periods, they'll almost invariably leak.

Carbon-zincs do leak, but very often did I open up the battery compartment of some device, found 20+ years old carbon-zinc batteries in there, and they were 200% dead, but cosmetically pristine. One recent counter-example was some sort of battery-powered fan for camping. I suspect the batteries were quickly drained, giving enough time for the magic juice to be released instead of the batteries just drying like raisins.

Just a hypothesis though, I'm no expert in the battery department LOL.
 


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