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| How does waveform updates on an oscilloscope work? Why do they work that way? |
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| tautech:
--- Quote from: Someone on April 19, 2023, 01:50:05 am ---To state blankly that retirgger rates are generally not important as deep memory can do the job..... we're back at the start of that stupidity again. Both have valid uses and neither is better for all cases. They are not replacements for each other and result in radically different workflows/results for the cases that could use either. --- End quote --- I didn't but instead: we can overlook retrigger rates to some degree And I stand by that. You must know we each have a different DSO usage style based on previous experience or the feature set of the instrument in front of us but simply we must accept of each other, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat and end with the same result. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 19, 2023, 06:41:00 am --- --- Quote from: Someone on April 18, 2023, 09:55:41 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2023, 01:49:53 pm --- --- Quote from: Someone on April 18, 2023, 11:57:37 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 17, 2023, 11:53:59 pm ---I don't know of any current production scope that has software triggers (out of mainstream brands i know off). I certainly don't know them all naturally. --- End quote --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2023, 09:57:14 am --- Pico 3406D has less than 0.6 µs [blind time] --- End quote --- Arent Picoscopes in that category of software based serial triggers? At which point the best case blind time of captures is irrelevant when talking about sustained throughput. --- End quote --- There is no software triggers in Picoscope.. You have wrong information. Do better research before stating something as a fact.. --- End quote --- Really? where do they advertise hardware serial triggers? where are examples or documentation of that? Why do they not correct people on their own forums who say the serial triggers are software? --- End quote --- I don't know what and why happens on their forums, that is a question for them. I imagine they cannot police every word and correct every wrong thing ever said there... Picoscope has no serial triggers software OR hardware. It has only analog and parallel digital triggers. Triggering is triggering. Decoding is post processing like math channels and measurements. It has decoders for 30+ protocols.. --- End quote --- Picoscope forum, picoscope staff member: https://www.picotech.com/support/topic40355.html All done in software offline (significant blind time and no option for hardware serial trigger). Those sorts of differences were clearly expanded upon already: --- Quote from: Someone on April 17, 2023, 11:08:37 pm ---There are scopes out there with no hardware serial trigger, but do have software serial decode, or the serial trigger only frames the packet and does not qualify/inspect the contents. Yet this thread is a mess of people not making that key separation which answers part of the question of the OP. --- End quote --- So why are you making so much effort to try and say they are all the same? Scopes without hardware serial triggers cant perform many debugging options that hardware triggers expose, it is a key separator that you seem to be trying to discount/hide/dismiss with faulty reasoning (such as bringing up the best case blind time when the OP is asking about protocol decode). |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: Someone on April 19, 2023, 11:13:02 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 19, 2023, 06:41:00 am --- --- Quote from: Someone on April 18, 2023, 09:55:41 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2023, 01:49:53 pm --- --- Quote from: Someone on April 18, 2023, 11:57:37 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 17, 2023, 11:53:59 pm ---I don't know of any current production scope that has software triggers (out of mainstream brands i know off). I certainly don't know them all naturally. --- End quote --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2023, 09:57:14 am --- Pico 3406D has less than 0.6 µs [blind time] --- End quote --- Arent Picoscopes in that category of software based serial triggers? At which point the best case blind time of captures is irrelevant when talking about sustained throughput. --- End quote --- There is no software triggers in Picoscope.. You have wrong information. Do better research before stating something as a fact.. --- End quote --- Really? where do they advertise hardware serial triggers? where are examples or documentation of that? Why do they not correct people on their own forums who say the serial triggers are software? --- End quote --- I don't know what and why happens on their forums, that is a question for them. I imagine they cannot police every word and correct every wrong thing ever said there... Picoscope has no serial triggers software OR hardware. It has only analog and parallel digital triggers. Triggering is triggering. Decoding is post processing like math channels and measurements. It has decoders for 30+ protocols.. --- End quote --- Picoscope forum, picoscope staff member: https://www.picotech.com/support/topic40355.html All done in software offline (significant blind time and no option for hardware serial trigger). Those sorts of differences were clearly expanded upon already: --- Quote from: Someone on April 17, 2023, 11:08:37 pm ---There are scopes out there with no hardware serial trigger, but do have software serial decode, or the serial trigger only frames the packet and does not qualify/inspect the contents. Yet this thread is a mess of people not making that key separation which answers part of the question of the OP. --- End quote --- So why are you making so much effort to try and say they are all the same? Scopes without hardware serial triggers cant perform many debugging options that hardware triggers expose, it is a key separator that you seem to be trying to discount/hide/dismiss with faulty reasoning (such as bringing up the best case blind time when the OP is asking about protocol decode). --- End quote --- It is now obvious to me that it is not MY English that is the problem... I said and done none of the things you say I did. Your conclusions are your hallucinations of what my sentences mean. Read again and again until you understand. |
| radiolistener:
it all depends on oscilloscope performance. If it has fast enough CPU and FPGA and software to get better update frame rate, it has less dead time interval between trigger events. But more fast hardware cost more money. So, more modern and more expensive hardware provides better results. :) Anyway, analog osciloscope also has dead time for trigger and it seems that modern DSO such as Siglent SDS1000X-E series can be equal or even better than analog oscilloscope. I think there is more important specification for modern DSO - this is a memory depth which can be used on a slow horizontal resolution. I think 14-28 Megapoints is the minimum for a modern low end oscilloscope. Also there is important the quality of digital phosphor algorithms used for rendering that deep memory on the screen. It's not easy to process 28 million points 30-60 times per second, it requires really fast hardware. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 19, 2023, 11:41:14 am --- --- Quote from: Someone on April 19, 2023, 11:13:02 am ---Those sorts of differences were clearly expanded upon already: --- Quote from: Someone on April 17, 2023, 11:08:37 pm ---There are scopes out there with no hardware serial trigger, but do have software serial decode, or the serial trigger only frames the packet and does not qualify/inspect the contents. Yet this thread is a mess of people not making that key separation which answers part of the question of the OP. --- End quote --- So why are you making so much effort to try and say they are all the same? Scopes without hardware serial triggers cant perform many debugging options that hardware triggers expose, it is a key separator that you seem to be trying to discount/hide/dismiss with faulty reasoning (such as bringing up the best case blind time when the OP is asking about protocol decode). --- End quote --- It is now obvious to me that it is not MY English that is the problem... I said and done none of the things you say I did. Your conclusions are your hallucinations of what my sentences mean. Read again and again until you understand. --- End quote --- A scope without hardware protocol triggers is exactly what is framed in the above quote. That would be things like the Picoscope and older Tektronix platforms (dunno about the current tek models confirmed the current Tek platforms still have increased blind time when running serial trigger+decode). If a scope such as the Picoscope has the decodes run in software, then it is the rate of that which produces the blind time for serial analysis. Serial decode was the OPs question. This (as noted above by tggzzz) is almost identical to the many threads where people would ask about realtime update rate, then have particular members consistently misleadingly talk at length about blind time in segmented mode and say how its all the same thing. That the acquisitions can enter memory but none of that information reaches the screen/user/result, makes them part of the dead time for that analysis. You want to talk about dead time? then discuss it accurately and honestly rather than pushing your "side" as somehow universal and superior. |
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