How is the new Keysight 1000 x series scope compared with other low cost scopes?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Both Keysight and Keysight fanboys are all hypocrites IMO. Living in their own world, and denying that it is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to deliver such a crappy probes. Even a 10 year old kid would agree on that.

FFS get over it. It's only the probe, and it's only 100MHz.

 

[nctnico]

Both Keysight and Keysight fanboys are all hypocrites IMO. Living in their own world, and denying that it is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to deliver such a crappy probes. Even a 10 year old kid would agree on that.

Perhaps your time is better spend with banging on Rigol's and Siglent's doors: their firmware doesn't even work right especially on new products. A probe is easy to replace but buggy firmware is a far more severe problem.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Do I get a free pair of nice probes if I jump on the hate-train? If so..

It's also a complete non-issue for me. And I do own the scope!

[fishandchips]

Regardless to the number of channels and cost

"Regardless of cost"? How does that work?

Do you also compare things like cars on that basis?

, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above?

All will do it...

Of course, being able to measure things accurately is the 1st priority. This is  followed by nice and smooth GUI (don't like the lags in responsiveness). The ability to store data is also important.

...but the Keysight/Instek will cost you double/triple money to get a bit better UI response.

Your call.

(And if cost isn't an issue, why stop there? Why are you looking at toy oscilloscopes like these?)

Sorry for not being clear. I think the cost of the Keysight and Instek scopes I mentioned are similar while the Rigol one is about 1/3 the price. Certainly cannot afford to pay over $2500.

[fishandchips]

If you disregard the items where the KeySight is at a disadvantage (namely channels and cost), the KeySight -- surprise! -- looks quite good in this comparison. 

It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope, and you have just redefined your criteria to exclude the items that might raise doubts.

The "emotional investment" is clearly on the side of the perpetual Keysight bashers. [...]

Have you actually read my post, GlowingGhoul? It was not that long...

I found it a bit amusing that fishandchips, in his most recent post, defined a set of assessment criteria which seem to specifically exclude those areas where competing scopes have advantages. Hence, my slightly tongue-in-cheek comment. But I actually assume that fishandchips has aready made up his mind -- he seems to value the usability higher than those other aspects, hence favors the Keysight. (Which clearly has advantages in usability, UI responsiveness etc.)

No "bashing" in that comment; and I do not want to be associated with any "perpetual Keysight bashers", thank you very much.

No. I am open to all three scopes. From what I read, the Instek seems to be better than the Rigol. Not sure how the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz and the GW Instek GDS-2204E are compared. Perhaps the Keysight scope has only two channels but better GUI while the Instek scope has four channels but the GUI is not as responsible and nice looking as the Keysight scope?

Can anybody who has used both the  Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz and the GW Instek GDS-2204E please do a comparison?

[TheAmmoniacal]

If you are willing to spend ~€1300 on the Instek, there are many options for you.

I'm certain Keysight would accept that offer for their DSOX2024A http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-DSOX2024A-Oscilloscope-4-channel-200MHz-Agilent-/172727327642

[nctnico]

The Instek GDS-2204E offers more features and deeper memory. It sits at a higher level than the Keysight 1000X which is after all is an entry level scope (a quick user interface only goes so far).

[GlowingGhoul]

Do I get a free pair of nice probes if I jump on the hate-train? If so..

It's also a complete non-issue for me. And I do own the scope!

But Pascal_Sweden and his ilk thinks you're an idiot, who doesn't know what's good for you, lol! Doesn't that keep you up at night?

[TheAmmoniacal]

Do I get a free pair of nice probes if I jump on the hate-train? If so..

It's also a complete non-issue for me. And I do own the scope!

But Pascal_Sweden and his ilk thinks you're an idiot, who doesn't know what's good for you, lol! Doesn't that keep you up at night?

Of course I'm disappointed the probes don't match the quality of the scope itself, but I have a bunch already - and they are not that bad. They just drift a bit more than my other ones.

[GlowingGhoul]

The Instek GDS-2204E offers more features and deeper memory. It sits at a higher level than the Keysight 1000X which is after all is an entry level scope (a quick user interface only goes so far).

Looking at the long list of glitches, incorrect specifications, crappy customer service, and the palpable "sigh of relief" each time Instek releases a new version of the firmware, obviously knowing that's no sure thing, leads anyone making a purchase decision to ask if there time is worth slogging through this, along with wondering how long Instek will continue to put effort into supporting this scope.

Again, if you're counting pennies, it's nice to have a tool that can get the job done in exchange for putting up with loads of bullshit, minor and major. For those whose time has value, they would be better off looking at a professional piece of equipment. The pain of the cost premium will fade, while the stench of cheapness will never dissipate.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/

[nctnico]

The Instek GDS-2204E offers more features and deeper memory. It sits at a higher level than the Keysight 1000X which is after all is an entry level scope (a quick user interface only goes so far).

Looking at the long list of glitches, incorrect specifications, crappy customer service, and the palpable "sigh of relief" each time Instek releases a new version of the firmware,

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/

I think you should read where a link points to before making statements which aren't true. Now you are just making a fool out of yourself!

[TK]

If you are willing to spend ~€1300 on the Instek, there are many options for you.

I'm certain Keysight would accept that offer for their DSOX2024A http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-DSOX2024A-Oscilloscope-4-channel-200MHz-Agilent-/172727327642

The last time I tried they rejected an offer that was only $100 down... and they charge sales tax in the US and they do not include accessories and probes (if you are lucky you get them, but they cannot confirm).  That particular unit has warranty active until 3/22/2022

[FlyingHacker]

Of course I have looked at the pictures of the probes. Even better, I have looked at the actual probes. Of course I don't think the interior construction looks high quality. Honestly, they don't feel bad in the hand, but probe feel is absurdly subjective and meaningless between users. However, I only expect marginally better given the price point. You don't get a Mercedes for the price of a Kia.

However, since I have actually used the scope I can say that the probes have been a non-issue in practice.

If one looks at pascal_sweden's umpteen posts in this and the other 1000X threads all he or she will find is complaint after complaint, attacks on Keysight's customer service, etc. all about a product he has never even put a finger on. Do you like to constantly complain to Fluke about how the 87V should default to DC amps instead of AC amps in current mode? They have known about this for years, but haven't even acknowledged it. They are horrible... no service. 

It gets old, and contributes absolutely nothing.

Again more ad hominem attacks on Keysight users even. This sounds like a Mac/PC flame war or something, except the guy arguing about it uses a Commodore and has never touched a Mac or a PC.

Daniel acknowledged the issue immediately. At least Keysight *has* a representative here. It takes more than a week or two to redesign or remanufacture a large scale product. If you think the probes are useless than take into the account the cost of a better pair when purchasing. You will likely want to have at least three probes anyway.

[blacksheeplogic]

Of course I'm disappointed the probes don't match the quality of the scope itself, but I have a bunch already - and they are not that bad. They just drift a bit more than my other ones.

While I prefer my set of Tek probes, I have used the N2140A probes on the DSOX1102G. They are OK and I had no problems with them. About what I would expect to get with the scope.

[fishandchips]

I think somebody suggested to stay away from Tektronix's scopes. Am I correct?

[ebastler]

I think somebody suggested to stay away from Tektronix's scopes. Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct that someone suggested this.   

Seriously, the consensus seems to be that Tek's mid-range scopes have lacked innovation over many years now, and are lagging behind the competition. Their new four- to eight-channel high end platform, which was just released earlier this month, seems to be a big step forward. But I assume it will be years until that new generation of technology percolates down to the mid-range and entry level scopes which most of us can afford.

[JPortici]

both correct, but tek's probes are... uuuugh. fantastic.
every few months a lot of NOS tek probes of various flavours comes up on ebay (europe). That's how i got my high frequency / low capacitance probes for like 30€ each

[mikeselectricstuff]

both correct, but tek's probes are... uuuugh. fantastic.

+1 to that. It's not about the performance, but the ergonomics. I've always used the P6131 /P6139 type probes - the cable is thin and very flexible, the probe is short and light, with a small pin, so you can just hang the probe in a through-hole, draping the cable over the bench light, for hand-free probing without clips or test points on the PCB.
Also for high-frequency probing, the small diameter of the barrel makes it easier to make nice grippy ground contacts by winding some tinned-copper wire round it.
AFAICS there's no reason  that cheaper probes couldn't be made the same way, but everyone seems to just copy the traditional big, clunky form factor.
 

[JPortici]

and all the accessories and goodies that come in the bag!
and the 100 pages long manuals for older probes

[awallin]

WTF did Farnell just bump the price of the 100MHz DSOX1102A from 609 euros just a few days ago to now 825 euros?!?

 

[JPortici]

http://it.farnell.com/keysight-technologies/dsox1102a/osc-archiv-digitale-70mhz-2-ca/dp/2690192
632 eur

1102G is 825 though

[ebastler]

http://it.farnell.com/keysight-technologies/dsox1102a/osc-archiv-digitale-70mhz-2-ca/dp/2690192
632 eur

1102G is 825 though

Do those prices include VAT, or does it come on top?
The Farnell website is surprisingly unclear in that respect; it says "VAT: unknown" for me (in Germany).

[JPortici]

ex-vat of course

so he either clicked on the wrong product page, or he is seeing prices with VAT, or farnell had a temporary senile moment

[diyaudio]

The 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.

Even if it is cheap to replace the probes, it's a matter of principle:
One is not supposed to replace the probes of a brand new oscilloscope up front.

And if decent quality probes are really so cheap, how come Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth?

Current product management at Keysight in a nutshell:

Lack of quality control.
Lack of responsibility.
Lack of accountability.
Lack of respect.
No long-term vision.
Key-sightless.

control yourself lady. its not an active probe you moaning about.

[Someone]

The 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.

Even if it is cheap to replace the probes, it's a matter of principle:
One is not supposed to replace the probes of a brand new oscilloscope up front.

And if decent quality probes are really so cheap, how come Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth?

Current product management at Keysight in a nutshell:

Lack of quality control.
Lack of responsibility.
Lack of accountability.
Lack of respect.
No long-term vision.
Key-sightless.

control yourself lady. its not an active probe you moaning about.

Try opening up an active probe and looking at the soldering, these low volume boards with low numbers of components as used in the matching networks (termination) are usually hand assembled and look just like the pictures posted so far. Unwashed flux? thats the recommended application for many fluxes!