Fluke PM6306 RCL Meter Discussions + Teardown

[BravoV]

EDIT 1 : As I already scored it, changing this thread's title and turning into discussion or anything related to this meter.

EDIT 2 : The unit teardown at post #47 -> Fluke PM6306 Teardown



Got an offer locally for about $300, is this considered a good price ?

Its a benchtop LCR meter, as title says, its working but no accessories like the tweezers, adapters and etc, just the unit + power cord. 

Random image grabbed from Google.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I'd be comfortable paying something around US $1,000-1,290.00, depending on condition, calibration status and operating environment.  I see people are charging twice that for damaged working units, and as much as $4,995.00 for "as new" units - but fuck'em.

[BravoV]

I'd be comfortable paying something around US $1,000-1,290.00, depending on condition, calibration status and operating environment.  I see people are charging twice that for damaged working units, and as much as $4,995.00 for "as new" units - but fuck'em.

Wow !!!

So say you have this offer, working condition as you can power it on, and test if briefly like self test, and on site (maybe bring few of my inductors/capacitors standards), not clear on the cal or previous environment, but for $300, will you take it home ?

Remember, no measuring adapters, cables what so ever, just the unit and the power cord.

[TheAmmoniacal]

At $300 I would definitely take it home. I would however attempt to resell it, a high precision LCR meter is something you very rarely need - I'd much prefer a small U1733C for example. Just for the convenience.

You should wait for other people's opinions though, just speaking as myself here.

[plesa]

For $300 it is bargain. The missing kelvin cable is not a big deal. Fluke ( Phillips ) used LEMO connector, so you can make your own cable quite cheap.
I see multiple of these unit damaged by charged capacitors, for 300 I will not ask question and take it as my second decent LCR meter.

[Shock]

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

[BravoV]

For $300 it is bargain. The missing kelvin cable is not a big deal. Fluke ( Phillips ) used LEMO connector, so you can make your own cable quite cheap.
I see multiple of these unit damaged by charged capacitors, for 300 I will not ask question and take it as my second decent LCR meter.

Ok, noted, the Lemo connector is not a big deal, thanks for the info !

Have to admit this bench LCR is way .. way .. too overkill for me as I'm just an enthusiast.

Its just I have this offer and I can have physically inspect it on site.

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

Hmm .. I guess Oz is land of cheap used T&M gadgets, impressive price indeed , at $100 I will not hesitate to buy it at all, heck, I will even buy two to have each other to have both cross measured if I doubt its out of cal. 

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

[plesa]

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

Of course in the 3-4k USD region you can buy E4980AL (300MHz) including calibration, so nobody will accept silly ebay price for used equipment.

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

As far as I can remeber Fluke acquired Phillips division. So I do not expect major changes inside LCR meter.
And Wayne Kerr has been producing almost the same instruments http://www.waynekerrtest.com/brochure/4265%20and%204270.pdf

So it looks like Fluke sell the Phillips IP to Wayne Kerr.

[BravoV]

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

As far as I can remeber Fluke acquired Phillips division. So I do not expect major changes inside LCR meter.
And Wayne Kerr has been producing almost the same instruments http://www.waynekerrtest.com/brochure/4265%20and%204270.pdf

So it looks like Fluke sell the Phillips IP to Wayne Kerr.

Thanks, didn't know that.

Looking at the Wayne Kerr brochure above, just a quick glimpse at the test frequencies, it looks like the PM6306 is equivalent to 4270 model isn't it ?

Any way, I launched a counter offer on that price, and the seller will reply tomorrow, lets see if this gets through, wish me luck.

[plesa]

Yes, according to picture and datasheets it looks like Wayne Kerr 4270 is copy exact of Phillips PM6306.Only the country of origin has been changed from Netherlands/Germany to UK, I suppose.

[Shock]

I didn't realize you were actually buying, I would offer them as little as they would take for it. Between $150-200 is an exceptionally good deal for you as long as it's in full working condition. I would be mainly worried about repairing the LCDs on these.

Mine is an older model and was a decent deal so I jumped on it, they are all originally Phillips designed products before Fluke got them. T&M gear is virtually non existent here, I still manage to find what I need though.

[HighVoltage]

The Fluke Philips PM6306 is the top of the line model LCR meter of this series and was still sold until 2014. The list price was over Euro 6000

For $300 I would not even think twice and take it home.
If you don't like it, you can sell it for a good profit.

I have three of the PM6306, one I bought brand new from Fluke, many years ago. One was a good price of $ 2000 and the last one I bought real cheap but broken and fixed it. The original cables and adapters sometimes go for a lot of money too.

[BravoV]

Done deal, its here, passed self tests with flying color, and it came with a calibration seal dated back at end of 2012.

I would be mainly worried about repairing the LCDs on these.

Luckily,  mine is fine, bright and sharp. Its funny to watch the self test on the lcd segments as it lights up each segment one by one.

[HighVoltage]

What a great deal you got.

One thing that is not tested by the selftest is the zero correction for the wires.
Install some wires and try the ZERO correction for open and short circuit.
If you pass that one, you are probably good to go.

[plesa]

Congratulation to the really good deal! You just needs to find proper Lemo connector...
I hope that you will find usage for it, eg. PC controlled frequency sweep and characterication of various components.

[BravoV]

What a great deal you got.

One thing that is not tested by the selftest is the zero correction for the wires.
Install some wires and try the ZERO correction for open and short circuit.
If you pass that one, you are probably good to go.

Thank you.

Thats what I did, as I never used mini banana connectors, and this thing is the 1st T&M gadget I own that uses mini banana connectors, go figure. 

Yeah, it passed the quick self test procedure as in user manual chapter 3.4 on "Brief Checking Procedure".
Don't laugh, when I was inspecting it at seller's place, I used this ...   




Btw, do you have this PM3606 service manual ? Googled, only found the PM3604 service manual, not this model. If you have, any chance I get it from you ?

Also to be honest, I was shocked when checking the Lemo connector at digikey, its damn expensive. With the minimum shipping cost at $70 from digikey, this damn connector it self is reaching near this meter's price alone. ....   

Sigh ... does anyone has spare of this crazy expensive Lemo connector ? Heck, even used is fine for me as long its still can be soldered easily with the wires.

[BravoV]

Congratulation to the really good deal! You just needs to find proper Lemo connector...
I hope that you will find usage for it, eg. PC controlled frequency sweep and characterication of various components.

Thanks ... 

Yeah, freq sweep came in mind at the 1st time when I saw the offer. 

Does it have a program ? or alternative ? I haven't google for it though, or I need to write my own ?

[plesa]

I will have some LEMO, but probably with same pin distance on outside diameter, but with additional pins inside. So you will needs to remove or cut them.
Can you measure the outer diameter of connector or send me the exact type.

I do not have such a program, when I used this meter in past I have the model with fixed frequency only.
Write your own should be easy, I have it only for E4980.

[BravoV]

I will have some LEMO, but probably with same pin distance on outside diameter, but with additional pins inside. So you will needs to remove or cut them.
Can you measure the outer diameter of connector or send me the exact type.

Is this enough ?

[BravoV]

Does anyone own this PM 9542A RCL Adapter ?

If its not troubling you too much, please, open it and take few close up shots, I want to see hows the wiring inside the box as I want to clone it.

[HighVoltage]

Does anyone own this PM 9542A RCL Adapter ?

If its not troubling you too much, please, open it and take few close up shots, I want to see hows the wiring inside the box as I want to clone it.

I do have that one and I can take it apart. But I am traveling right now, will have to wait until tomorrow.

[BravoV]

HighVoltage, no worry, take your time.

Btw, if it can be done non destructive way, please, I really want to see how they soldered the Lemo connector as well, especially the cables used, and also how they laid the coaxial cables (I assumed) in that tight 8 pins, and also the shielding.

As its factory made adapter, I guess they used a very good dielectric cables and also carefully positioned and soldered at the back of the Lemo connector's pins.

And also please, take shots as well for the red & black test posts for leaded components at various angles, really curious how they're constructed and made.

Thanks in advance.

[HighVoltage]

HighVoltage, no worry, take your time.

Btw, if it can be done non destructive way, please, I really want to see how they soldered the Lemo connector as well, especially the cables used, and also how they laid the coaxial cables (I assumed) in that tight 8 pins, and also the shielding.

Yes, I want to see that too. But Philips / Fluke closed the LEMO connectors with Loctite. I have tried to open them several times with really good and well fitting tools but no luck at all. One probably must heat the connector to access the internals but I am afraid the heat will destroy some of the dielectric properties.

I have several of these original cables and they all show this tightness. For that purpose I have been looking for used original cables on ebay but sometimes the cables go for more than the instruments. But may be one day I get lucky to find a broken one on ebay and then will open it up with force.

 

[BravoV]

Doesn't surprise me as this meter claimed has the accuracy of 0.1% +/- 1 digit with resolution of 0.1 mOhm, 0.01pF, 0.01uH, 0.1uV and 0.001uA, it makes senses with all those sealed in and stable construction, especially at the Lemo connector. Hence I'm so curious about the soldered cables and layout inside that box.

Never mind, if it can not be opened without destroying it or affecting it's performance, please don't do it, hate to see that my self. 

Well, not overly ambitious, even I can get 1/100 of the claimed resolution like 1 pF , 1 uH or 0.1 mOhm and within 1% accuracy at the sweep frequencies from 50 Hz up to 1 Mhz, I will be more than happy as this meter is way beyond of my so called "hobbyist" league. 

[Shock]

This may be obvious, but I expect the pins on the lemo test adapter to be an extension of 4 wire measurement on the front of the instrument + a guard (cable plus enclosure shield). They look to have two common wires for both positions on the left to save space. So 8 pins plus guard on the lemo seems to add up perfectly.

The reason they may have chosen to do this is for zeroing purposes at the adapter as it allows you to break out the cables again or use either the smd or the wider through hole adapter. Measurements would be out with that design if they didn't use 8 wires.