Fluke PM6306 RCL Meter Discussions + Teardown

[BravoV]

EDIT 1 : As I already scored it, changing this thread's title and turning into discussion or anything related to this meter.

EDIT 2 : The unit teardown at post #47 -> Fluke PM6306 Teardown



Got an offer locally for about $300, is this considered a good price ?

Its a benchtop LCR meter, as title says, its working but no accessories like the tweezers, adapters and etc, just the unit + power cord. 

Random image grabbed from Google.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I'd be comfortable paying something around US $1,000-1,290.00, depending on condition, calibration status and operating environment.  I see people are charging twice that for damaged working units, and as much as $4,995.00 for "as new" units - but fuck'em.

[BravoV]

I'd be comfortable paying something around US $1,000-1,290.00, depending on condition, calibration status and operating environment.  I see people are charging twice that for damaged working units, and as much as $4,995.00 for "as new" units - but fuck'em.

Wow !!!

So say you have this offer, working condition as you can power it on, and test if briefly like self test, and on site (maybe bring few of my inductors/capacitors standards), not clear on the cal or previous environment, but for $300, will you take it home ?

Remember, no measuring adapters, cables what so ever, just the unit and the power cord.

[TheAmmoniacal]

At $300 I would definitely take it home. I would however attempt to resell it, a high precision LCR meter is something you very rarely need - I'd much prefer a small U1733C for example. Just for the convenience.

You should wait for other people's opinions though, just speaking as myself here.

[plesa]

For $300 it is bargain. The missing kelvin cable is not a big deal. Fluke ( Phillips ) used LEMO connector, so you can make your own cable quite cheap.
I see multiple of these unit damaged by charged capacitors, for 300 I will not ask question and take it as my second decent LCR meter.

[Shock]

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

[BravoV]

For $300 it is bargain. The missing kelvin cable is not a big deal. Fluke ( Phillips ) used LEMO connector, so you can make your own cable quite cheap.
I see multiple of these unit damaged by charged capacitors, for 300 I will not ask question and take it as my second decent LCR meter.

Ok, noted, the Lemo connector is not a big deal, thanks for the info !

Have to admit this bench LCR is way .. way .. too overkill for me as I'm just an enthusiast.

Its just I have this offer and I can have physically inspect it on site.

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

Hmm .. I guess Oz is land of cheap used T&M gadgets, impressive price indeed , at $100 I will not hesitate to buy it at all, heck, I will even buy two to have each other to have both cross measured if I doubt its out of cal. 

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

[plesa]

There is the price you can sell it for instantly and the price that could take months to sell at, these are totally two different things. I'd not pay $300 for it, as I only paid $100 for my own Phillips RCL meter. But others would and if you get an easy offer of $300 then you can probably get more without effort. These guys are talking about the Europe market for this kind of equipment where some gear is cheaper, some more expensive. Shipping , taxes and exchange rates can skew those prices a little.

Of course in the 3-4k USD region you can buy E4980AL (300MHz) including calibration, so nobody will accept silly ebay price for used equipment.

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

As far as I can remeber Fluke acquired Phillips division. So I do not expect major changes inside LCR meter.
And Wayne Kerr has been producing almost the same instruments http://www.waynekerrtest.com/brochure/4265%20and%204270.pdf

So it looks like Fluke sell the Phillips IP to Wayne Kerr.

[BravoV]

Is that Philips LCR is the same / identical to Fluke PM 306 (relabeled) ?

As far as I can remeber Fluke acquired Phillips division. So I do not expect major changes inside LCR meter.
And Wayne Kerr has been producing almost the same instruments http://www.waynekerrtest.com/brochure/4265%20and%204270.pdf

So it looks like Fluke sell the Phillips IP to Wayne Kerr.

Thanks, didn't know that.

Looking at the Wayne Kerr brochure above, just a quick glimpse at the test frequencies, it looks like the PM6306 is equivalent to 4270 model isn't it ?

Any way, I launched a counter offer on that price, and the seller will reply tomorrow, lets see if this gets through, wish me luck.

[plesa]

Yes, according to picture and datasheets it looks like Wayne Kerr 4270 is copy exact of Phillips PM6306.Only the country of origin has been changed from Netherlands/Germany to UK, I suppose.

[Shock]

I didn't realize you were actually buying, I would offer them as little as they would take for it. Between $150-200 is an exceptionally good deal for you as long as it's in full working condition. I would be mainly worried about repairing the LCDs on these.

Mine is an older model and was a decent deal so I jumped on it, they are all originally Phillips designed products before Fluke got them. T&M gear is virtually non existent here, I still manage to find what I need though.

[HighVoltage]

The Fluke Philips PM6306 is the top of the line model LCR meter of this series and was still sold until 2014. The list price was over Euro 6000

For $300 I would not even think twice and take it home.
If you don't like it, you can sell it for a good profit.

I have three of the PM6306, one I bought brand new from Fluke, many years ago. One was a good price of $ 2000 and the last one I bought real cheap but broken and fixed it. The original cables and adapters sometimes go for a lot of money too.

[BravoV]

Done deal, its here, passed self tests with flying color, and it came with a calibration seal dated back at end of 2012.

I would be mainly worried about repairing the LCDs on these.

Luckily,  mine is fine, bright and sharp. Its funny to watch the self test on the lcd segments as it lights up each segment one by one.

[HighVoltage]

What a great deal you got.

One thing that is not tested by the selftest is the zero correction for the wires.
Install some wires and try the ZERO correction for open and short circuit.
If you pass that one, you are probably good to go.

[plesa]

Congratulation to the really good deal! You just needs to find proper Lemo connector...
I hope that you will find usage for it, eg. PC controlled frequency sweep and characterication of various components.

[BravoV]

What a great deal you got.

One thing that is not tested by the selftest is the zero correction for the wires.
Install some wires and try the ZERO correction for open and short circuit.
If you pass that one, you are probably good to go.

Thank you.

Thats what I did, as I never used mini banana connectors, and this thing is the 1st T&M gadget I own that uses mini banana connectors, go figure. 

Yeah, it passed the quick self test procedure as in user manual chapter 3.4 on "Brief Checking Procedure".
Don't laugh, when I was inspecting it at seller's place, I used this ...   




Btw, do you have this PM3606 service manual ? Googled, only found the PM3604 service manual, not this model. If you have, any chance I get it from you ?

Also to be honest, I was shocked when checking the Lemo connector at digikey, its damn expensive. With the minimum shipping cost at $70 from digikey, this damn connector it self is reaching near this meter's price alone. ....   

Sigh ... does anyone has spare of this crazy expensive Lemo connector ? Heck, even used is fine for me as long its still can be soldered easily with the wires.

[BravoV]

Congratulation to the really good deal! You just needs to find proper Lemo connector...
I hope that you will find usage for it, eg. PC controlled frequency sweep and characterication of various components.

Thanks ... 

Yeah, freq sweep came in mind at the 1st time when I saw the offer. 

Does it have a program ? or alternative ? I haven't google for it though, or I need to write my own ?

[plesa]

I will have some LEMO, but probably with same pin distance on outside diameter, but with additional pins inside. So you will needs to remove or cut them.
Can you measure the outer diameter of connector or send me the exact type.

I do not have such a program, when I used this meter in past I have the model with fixed frequency only.
Write your own should be easy, I have it only for E4980.

[BravoV]

I will have some LEMO, but probably with same pin distance on outside diameter, but with additional pins inside. So you will needs to remove or cut them.
Can you measure the outer diameter of connector or send me the exact type.

Is this enough ?

[BravoV]

Does anyone own this PM 9542A RCL Adapter ?

If its not troubling you too much, please, open it and take few close up shots, I want to see hows the wiring inside the box as I want to clone it.

[HighVoltage]

Does anyone own this PM 9542A RCL Adapter ?

If its not troubling you too much, please, open it and take few close up shots, I want to see hows the wiring inside the box as I want to clone it.

I do have that one and I can take it apart. But I am traveling right now, will have to wait until tomorrow.

[BravoV]

HighVoltage, no worry, take your time.

Btw, if it can be done non destructive way, please, I really want to see how they soldered the Lemo connector as well, especially the cables used, and also how they laid the coaxial cables (I assumed) in that tight 8 pins, and also the shielding.

As its factory made adapter, I guess they used a very good dielectric cables and also carefully positioned and soldered at the back of the Lemo connector's pins.

And also please, take shots as well for the red & black test posts for leaded components at various angles, really curious how they're constructed and made.

Thanks in advance.

[HighVoltage]

HighVoltage, no worry, take your time.

Btw, if it can be done non destructive way, please, I really want to see how they soldered the Lemo connector as well, especially the cables used, and also how they laid the coaxial cables (I assumed) in that tight 8 pins, and also the shielding.

Yes, I want to see that too. But Philips / Fluke closed the LEMO connectors with Loctite. I have tried to open them several times with really good and well fitting tools but no luck at all. One probably must heat the connector to access the internals but I am afraid the heat will destroy some of the dielectric properties.

I have several of these original cables and they all show this tightness. For that purpose I have been looking for used original cables on ebay but sometimes the cables go for more than the instruments. But may be one day I get lucky to find a broken one on ebay and then will open it up with force.

 

[BravoV]

Doesn't surprise me as this meter claimed has the accuracy of 0.1% +/- 1 digit with resolution of 0.1 mOhm, 0.01pF, 0.01uH, 0.1uV and 0.001uA, it makes senses with all those sealed in and stable construction, especially at the Lemo connector. Hence I'm so curious about the soldered cables and layout inside that box.

Never mind, if it can not be opened without destroying it or affecting it's performance, please don't do it, hate to see that my self. 

Well, not overly ambitious, even I can get 1/100 of the claimed resolution like 1 pF , 1 uH or 0.1 mOhm and within 1% accuracy at the sweep frequencies from 50 Hz up to 1 Mhz, I will be more than happy as this meter is way beyond of my so called "hobbyist" league. 

[Shock]

This may be obvious, but I expect the pins on the lemo test adapter to be an extension of 4 wire measurement on the front of the instrument + a guard (cable plus enclosure shield). They look to have two common wires for both positions on the left to save space. So 8 pins plus guard on the lemo seems to add up perfectly.

The reason they may have chosen to do this is for zeroing purposes at the adapter as it allows you to break out the cables again or use either the smd or the wider through hole adapter. Measurements would be out with that design if they didn't use 8 wires.

[plesa]

In attachment is pinout.
Just to make it clear for every fixture you needs to make the short and open circuit calibration.

[BravoV]

In attachment is pinout.
Just to make it clear for every fixture you needs to make the short and open circuit calibration.

Not only that, every fixtures even factory made has it's own value, need to set accordingly when changed.

I was so happy when I saw the table below for the 1st time, meaning even for "non standard" fixtures like the "DIY type"  , it can compensate it, cmiiw.

Hell, I don't believe even a poorly made fixture as long not using overly long cable will get up to that crazy 1050 pF  , again cmiiw.

[HighVoltage]

May be someone is interested in the official prices. I saved this UK price list in 2012.
Retail price of the top of the line PM6306 was £ 8034 (GBP !!!) = 11400 Euro in today's currency.

[Shock]

So wow only one 4 wire measurement in the adapter box and every wire is shielded, so that means they must run connections to multiple sockets to support both test positions. I wasn't thinking about test frequency. Should be interesting to see how they wired it.

[HighVoltage]

Here are some detailed pictures of how the connector looks in the back and how the 2 mm banana plugs are connected to the LEMO connector.
The flat flex cable plugs in directly to the header that is visible on the PCB

[BravoV]

@HighVoltage, crazy price, I guess I'm so lucky. 

So wow only one 4 wire measurement in the adapter box and every wire is shielded, so that means they must run connections to multiple sockets to support both test positions. I wasn't thinking about test frequency. Should be interesting to see how they wired it.

Now, regarding the cables used, this particular note below from the PM6306 User Guide (highlighted in yellow and red) really made me raised my eyebrows.

That means definitely they've upgraded the cables using much better dielectric and also most important much more stable dielectric. This meter deals with like 0.01pF or 0.01uH resolution and with frequency up to 1 Mhz, I guess every pico Farad counts.

Thats why I'm so interested how they built that adapter box, the cables type used, the cabling layout, the shieldings/soldering and etc. Also inside the Lemo as it uses at least 4 coaxial cables, too bad its locked.

[HighVoltage]

Now I took the Adapter 4542A apart.
Not a big surprise, just that the quality of the details are really great.
I am the first and original owner of this adapter. I think I must have bought it in the late 90's from Fluke USA.
It seems this one was never re-batched with the Fluke name on it.

[BravoV]

Now I took the Adapter 4542A apart.
Not a big surprise, just that the quality of the details are really great.
I am the first and original owner of this adapter. I think I must have bought it in the late 90's from Fluke USA.
It seems this one was never re-batched with the Fluke name on it.

HighVoltage, thank you so much for the photos, really appreciate it. 

Ok, now the cables are spotted, Teflon coax it is, cmiiw. 

Inside the box, I can see also each shield from every coax cable are terminated close at the solder joint (green arrows) and heat shrunk.



I'm not going to make an assumption here, so questions for you HighVoltage :

- Is that black ground wire (pointed by yellow arrow)  is connected to the Lemo's metal body ? Measure with DMM please.
- Does pin 1 (as it is circuit's ground) also electrically connected to that black black wire ?  Measured at the Lemo's pin 1.
- Its just a plain non coaxial cable right ?

[HighVoltage]

NO, there is no connection to the outside of the LEMO plug.
This black cable goes to a guard, I am guessing a shielding for the complete cable.

But if you plug the cable in to the PM6306 and measure the same resistance, it is 100 kOhm
It seems that one of the resistors we see on the flat flex cable is a 100k Ohm resistor to connect the housing of the LEMO to the housing of the adapter.
 
Resistance between housing and LEMO  >10GOhm (not connected)
Resistance between housing and LEMO = 100 kOhm (connected)

hope this helps you.

[HighVoltage]

This is also a hiding fact:

All these original test cables have a guard plug for a 2 mm banana plug installed and you can add a ground / guard cable and connect it to the housing of your DUT. No wonder, these cables have been so expensive.

I think I have every cable made for this PM6306 in my collection. And they all have this 2 mm ground plug installed.

[Vgkid]

Interesting that they didnt connrect the shield to the chasis, but I guess it doesn't matter much for those frequencies. Unless that black wire meets up with the shield on the inside.

[plesa]

On Agilent fixtures they did it same way and in many cased there is only shield on each conductor.
Cables used un Fluke adater and pretty good with PTFE isolation and silver coated shielding, only the central conductor is too tiny and easy to tear.

If you are interested in building the test fixture adapter try to make adapter for higher voltage testing, schamatic is available in Agilent adapter documentation (page 25).
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/16065-90011.pdf?id=1000002525:epsg:man

[BravoV]

NO, there is no connection to the outside of the LEMO plug.
This black cable goes to a guard, I am guessing a shielding for the complete cable.

But if you plug the cable in to the PM6306 and measure the same resistance, it is 100 kOhm
It seems that one of the resistors we see on the flat flex cable is a 100k Ohm resistor to connect the housing of the LEMO to the housing of the adapter.
 
Resistance between housing and LEMO  >10GOhm (not connected)
Resistance between housing and LEMO = 100 kOhm (connected)

hope this helps you.

Great ! Thanks for clarifying that black cable, its clear now. 

This is also a hiding fact:

All these original test cables have a guard plug for a 2 mm banana plug installed and you can add a ground / guard cable and connect it to the housing of your DUT. No wonder, these cables have been so expensive.

Wow ... without you revealing that hidden plug, nobody will ever know that little detail. 

Please, again .. take another close up at the red and black Test Posts ? As these have the lowest capacitance < 50 pF according to manual, intrigued by the details on how they built it.

Thank you so much for all your troubles helping me here. 

[BravoV]

If you are interested in building the test fixture adapter try to make adapter for higher voltage testing, schamatic is available in Agilent adapter documentation (page 25).
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/16065-90011.pdf?id=1000002525:epsg:man

Thanks, another great resource on these RCL test fixtures build. 



Edit :

Hopefully this weekend I have time to do the teardown and post it's gut photos.

[HighVoltage]

Wow ... without you revealing that hidden plug, nobody will ever know that little detail. 

Please, again .. take another close up at the red and black Test Posts ? As these have the lowest capacitance < 50 pF according to manual, intrigued by the details on how they built it.

Thank you so much for all your troubles helping me here. 

No problem.
The red an black plugs are made by Hirschmann Germany
Actually the PM6306 was designed and built in Germany

Here are some pictures on one of my units from the inside.
Does your instrument have the DC Option? That one is very good for electrolytic capacitor measurements.

This one in the pictures has the RS232 option.
I have another one with the GPIB option but that one carries the official calibration seal and I do not want to open it.
It probably has a similar board, just GPIB instead of serial.

[BravoV]

HighVoltage, again, many thanks for the internal shots of your PM6306. I have not opened mine yet, for sure I will post it here, at least for comparison.

The red an black plugs are made by Hirschmann Germany

Really ? I did briefly check at Hirschmann web, still can't find it. Please take few shots of the plugs at various angles, this plugs will be the 1st priority for the DIY adapter as currently I can not play with this beast as I never have 2mm mini banana jack, let alone the Lemo connector. ... sigh ...

Does your instrument have the DC Option? That one is very good for electrolytic capacitor measurements.

I'm not sure, but its nice to the PM9565 DC Option board. 

Even I don't have it, still I can use the External DC bias, did you ever use this feature ? Any tips or comments regarding this feature ?

This one in the pictures has the RS232 option.

Hmm... why there are different caps (2 in the middle) in that row of 6 caps there ? Did you fix it ?

I will post the photo on my RS232 option board once I opened it for sure.

[plesa]

If you cannot find the 2mm bannana I suppose that RC batterry pack connectors will fit. To be sure measure diameter, because there are some with 2.6mm diameter
http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Plated-Bullet-Banana-Connectors/dp/B00GTN72ZS
or
http://uk.farnell.com/hirschmann-testmeasurement/973509101/plug-2mm-red-pk5-vq/dp/497216

[HighVoltage]

Here is my collection of 2mm plugs from Hirschmann.
MC (Multi Contact) is also making some 2 mm banana plugs, but they are much more expensive.
These Hirschmann plugs are easily available in Germany, even on eBay

2 mm Hirschmann Male plug
http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Hirschmann-Miniatur-Stecker-MST3-2mm-Bananenstecker-MST-3-rot-039675-/360774545131?hash=item53ffd6aeeb

2 mm Hirschmann Female connector
http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Miniatur-Buchse-MBI-1-Hirschmann-2mm-Buchsen-Einbaubuchse-MBI1-schwarz-039682-/311319886252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item487c1c79ac

This seller is shipping worldwide.

[HighVoltage]

For some every day use of the instrument, where I do not need the last bit of accuracy but a fast measurement and easy handling of the wires, I am using my self built test leads

2 mm Hirschmann connectors on one side
4 mm Banana Plugs by MC (gold plated) on the other side.
LiFY highly flexible test lead cables

I have found, that this is my most comfortable way of using the instrument on an every day basis for quick and easy measurements. The 2 mm banana plugs plug directly in to the PM6306.
 
 

[BravoV]

Thanks for pointing places for sourcing the mini banana accessories, bookmarked. Also I am already in the middle of procuring them, it may take a while to arrive. Not Hirschmann quality though. 

HighVoltage, the DIY test leads looks great  . Although these will not compete with the factory made ones, just curious, have you ever verified how much different between them in term of accuracy ?

[TheAmmoniacal]

BravoV, $301 USD + shipping? Deal?

[BravoV]

BravoV, $301 USD + shipping? Deal?

LOL ... sorry , I'm falling in love with this beast now. 

Even I'm going to sell it, at least not now before I'm satisfied with quality time spent with it. 

[BravoV]

Ok, opened it, abit dusty inside, although not too horrible, going to clean it carefully there. The latest date code I could find is year 1998.

So here we are, few shots of it's gut, hope you will find it useful.

The top view, personally I love this kind of design that put all high voltage stuff at the rear, seen here it uses the green long stick at most right, connected to the front on/off push button.




View from the rear.




View from the front.




The firmware, Ver 1.4, its older version compared to HighVoltage's which is at 1.6.
I am kind of worry seing the battery, I'm guessing its for the volatile calibration data ? Sigh ... another "adventurous" battery replacement task again ? For sure I can not afford to send it to calibration lab, after looking at my buying price.




Analog front end section, no DC Option board like the one owned by HighVoltage. ... sigh ...




The RS-232 option board, looks like it provides full isolation for the serial connections.




An interesting big 22nF cap popped out in the middle analog section, wonder what is that for ? They could use a smd cap instead that big cap right ?




A bodge cap, I guess its earlier version.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Great set of pictures, thanks! I like some gear porn in the morning.

[HighVoltage]

Very nice set of pictures indeed.
So, when you turn it on, you see FW v 1.4 on the screen, right?

[BravoV]

Great set of pictures, thanks! I like some gear porn in the morning.

My pleasure, glad you like it.

Very nice set of pictures indeed.
So, when you turn it on, you see FW v 1.4 on the screen, right?

Thanks.

Yes, it shows 1.4 at lcd from a blip when turned on. Btw, as you own few of these beasts, just curious, whats the latest version ?

[HighVoltage]

Yes, it shows 1.4 at lcd from a blip when turned on. Btw, as you own few of these beasts, just curious, whats the latest version ?

Two of them show FW v1.5 and one of them shows FW v1.6
Version 1.6 was the latest.
But I think there is no difference in the functionality of the different versions from 1.4 to 1.6

[wiss]

The 22n cap looks like a polystyrene, they can not stand any heat so no smd-version of those. I would guess it is used for an integrator.

[BravoV]

Two of them show FW v1.5 and one of them shows FW v1.6
Version 1.6 was the latest.
But I think there is no difference in the functionality of the different versions from 1.4 to 1.6

Don't worry, that question is just for my curiosity sake  , don't even have the gut to replace that firmware without knowing the detail, the calibration may be gone or worst something bad may happened by just blindly replace the firmware rom.   

As you own 3 of this, do you anything to comment about that button battery in the logic board ?

Should I worry about it as its almost 17 years old (date code 98). 

[BravoV]

The 22n cap looks like a polystyrene, they can not stand any heat so no smd-version of those. I would guess it is used for an integrator.

Ok, interesting observation, noted.

Is it possible that is the reference cap ? Unlikely right ? As that polystyrene cap is not the best when it comes to stability, cmiiw.

[The Electrician]

There are some fixtures from Chinese manufacturers that aren't too bad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TH26001A-4-terminal-test-fixture-for-LCR-meter-TH2811D-/330561107682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf6fa36e2

I have one of these, but I've only used it a low frequencies.  In a day or so I will be back where I can test it at higher frequencies.

May you could figure out a way to kluge one of these low cost fixtures to your meter.

[HighVoltage]

May you could figure out a way to kluge one of these low cost fixtures to your meter.

That should be possible.
It looks like a good starting point.

[wiss]

The 22n cap looks like a polystyrene, they can not stand any heat so no smd-version of those. I would guess it is used for an integrator.

Ok, interesting observation, noted.

Is it possible that is the reference cap ? Unlikely right ? As that polystyrene cap is not the best when it comes to stability, cmiiw.

The have low DA, there has been one (as ADC integrator) in most (bench-) multimeters I have opened.

[BravoV]

There are some fixtures from Chinese manufacturers that aren't too bad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TH26001A-4-terminal-test-fixture-for-LCR-meter-TH2811D-/330561107682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf6fa36e2

I have one of these, but I've only used it a low frequencies.  In a day or so I will be back where I can test it at higher frequencies.

May you could figure out a way to kluge one of these low cost fixtures to your meter.

Thanks, isn't that a clone of old HP LCR fixture ? Whats the max frequency did you use it thats still accurate enough ?

Looking at the connectors at the back, the two outer ones are obviously BNC, whats the middle two ?

[The Electrician]

I tested the fixture in question up to 5 MHz tonight.  It's not too bad up to 5 MHz, and definitely ok up to 1 MHz.  This is with a meter having the 4 BNC interface, of course.  I don't if you could kluge it to your meter and still get adequate performance.

The middle two connectors are also BNC, but without the outer sleeve.

[BravoV]

I tested the fixture in question up to 5 MHz tonight.  It's not too bad up to 5 MHz, and definitely ok up to 1 MHz.  This is with a meter having the 4 BNC interface, of course.  I don't if you could kluge it to your meter and still get adequate performance.

The middle two connectors are also BNC, but without the outer sleeve.

Ok, noted, as I spotted this Tonghui test fixture is affordable, saved in the shopping list. 


Meanwhile, I'm not abandoning this thread, still waiting my Kelvin clips to arrive from Franky (iloveelectronics), <sigh> ... waiting sux. 

[banditbiker]

Hello,

I have one of these units, a PM6306/073 with firmware 1.2.

It has a problem. Zero trim fails on 100 and 120Hz.
The weird thing is the Oct and Sct order is different from when I zero trim on 1 kHz.
100Hz: first Sct and then Oct then fails.
1kHz: first Oct then Sct then pass.

Anyone has this problem too?
I would be interested in obtaining a copy of the EEPROM (version 1.2 or higher) to check if its a firmware issue.

Looking forward hearing your offers/ideas.

[BravoV]

Weird problems, although mine doesn't have that, sorry, I don't have any clue what is happening with yours, maybe others can chime in ?

Regarding eeprom, mine is 1.4, its just currently I don't have my writer/reader with me now.

Once I got it, I will post it here, even it won't fix yours, who know it will help others that have corrupted eeprom in the future.

Btw, do you have the PM6306 service manual ? Mind share it ?

[HighVoltage]

Hello,

I have one of these units, a PM6306/073 with firmware 1.2.

It has a problem. Zero trim fails on 100 and 120Hz.
The weird thing is the Oct and Sct order is different from when I zero trim on 1 kHz.
100Hz: first Sct and then Oct then fails.
1kHz: first Oct then Sct then pass.

Anyone has this problem too?
I would be interested in obtaining a copy of the EEPROM (version 1.2 or higher) to check if its a firmware issue.

Looking forward hearing your offers/ideas.

At 100Hz and 120Hz the dominant component is the DC resistive part and not any inductive or capacitive component.
So, it is normal for the unit to show this behavior.

It seems you have a problem with your cables.
Try a short-block and see, if the problem persist.
I would expect the problem to be gone then

BTW, what kind of Cable are you using
The one with the LEMO connector or 2mm banana plugs?

[banditbiker]

Well at 50Hz, 60Hz and 200Hz the unit performs as it does at 1kHz.
Its only the 100 and 120 where the zero trim order is reverse and fails.

I have the original Philips 9541A cable with Kelvin clips.
I dont have a short block...

[HighVoltage]

You can make yourself some very short cables to simulate a short block.
Use the Hirschmann 2 mm banana plugs, they work well for this.

[HighVoltage]

I was not aware, that these Philips / Fluke RCL meters were available as a Wayne-Kerr brand.

Look at this interesting PDF...
http://www.waynekerrtest.com/brochure/4265%20and%204270.pdf

[mzspring]

Can you take a high-definition picture of this position for me?

And measure their values

PM6306 for V1.6

[HighVoltage]

I can do it over the weekend

[mzspring]

Thank you, I have a PM6306 V1.6 damaged.