Author Topic: How to solve the “TI ADS1299 EEG demo kit is not save for humans” problem?  (Read 6848 times)

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Offline Peter Gamma

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For clarification: people started to complain about me, that they had to give up supporting me. I retreated from the TI ADS1299 EEG demo kit, since there are other products on the market, which fit better for my needs.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 10:27:46 am by Peter Gamma »
 

Offline Rerouter

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Battery powered device, likely isolated output channels, and designed to be current limited,

Unless it is safe under all conditions, It is not safe, So the easiest solution is to build it to be that safe, make things by design unable to hurt the person,

Because the company gets no say in how you use there chip, they will never agree to its use in that application, it is left to the designer to meet existing medical safety standards

I literally have built similar devices for dishes filled with nuerons, and you would be suprised how much harder things get when the channel count goes up. Is there anything preventing someone from fitting out my device with scalp electrodes and sticking it to themself? None, but I as a designer am never signing off on it unless I built and tested it for that application. something kills a trained nueron culture, people are pissed as hell, something kills a person, lawsuits are just the beginning.
 
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Offline occamman

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Wow! Quite a thread!

I found this while looking for info on the ADS1299. I'm an experienced medical device developer, I'm working with a few other EEs and a doc to develop an open-source EEG based on this part. If anyone's interested in details of the project, or of how medical devices are made safe and/or are cleared by FDA and so forth, I'm happy to share.
 
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Offline rfclown

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A while back (14 years ago), for fun, I played with EEG. I measured myself without isolation with a battery powered laptop, but for safety sake, I put together an opto-isolated serial interface (circuit attached). I did my EEG with a PIC12F675: two channel with serial interface to PC. I haven't read this whole thread, but if the TI thing doesn't isolate the EEG circuit from the PC.. well, there's just no reason not to. Then there is the EEG circuit itself, which is another matter. How safe is it? I was educated on the matter mostly by the OpenEEG project. http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/ Don't know if it is still active. The participants at the time were very helpful with questions of mine.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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The Indonesian scientist used a simulator. But the evaluation was for Acute Ischemic Stroke Identification, Electroencephalography and relative power ratio and brain symmetry index features. As long as there is no device available which is safe for humans, the research results of the Indonesian research scientists cannot be applied, not even when it is not for a medical purpose, but only to use the TI board as a reference device for accuracy tests.

I was successful with another Aliexpress seller. He agreed to update the website on Aliexpress with his offer, to write in the documentation to use the EEG board only with battery powered laptops.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000244594585.html?spm=5261.ProductManageOnline.0.0.1f1a4edfSeZqwP

I'm sorry mate but what is your objective really? Find the next big thing and get famous and rich? What kind of knowledge you seek that are willing to put lives of other people in risk for the reward of a scientific paper? As already told by lots of uses here, all Medical Device equipments have to be thoroughly tested against faults and any kind of stuff that may cause harm or loss of life on the subject being supported/tested/enhanced by said device.

With the CoVID19 a lot of projects regarding open source respirators come to shore but most of them if not all have faults that can cause extreme harm to the recipient of such support, even if the cause is noble and something must be done in a situation were medical equipments are needed but in extreme short supply/too damn expensive.

So stick to the study cases such non medical approved devices are recommended to be used (simulators). And also remember that someone close to you that you hold dear could be tested with such devices, or any other kind of non medical device for research purposes and may have the chance of losing his life because of that. And if such thing happens are you gonna say that "it was in the name of science so it's OK"?

Jesus Fucking Christ, people nowadays have a "only one way" view of things and don't look at any consequence of their actions for the sake of getting to their objective, whatever it is... Ethics are out of the door in search of the greater good of some.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 04:29:35 am by Black Phoenix »
 

Offline Peter Gamma

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There is a new paper with the Texas Instruments ADS1299 EEG Front-End Performance Demonstration Kit (TI-ADS1299EEG-FE) to measure EEG signals:

https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/20/24/7250/htm

Maybe someone else makes a product out of it?
 
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Offline thinkfat

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You can design all you want to make it not hurt people, but it will not be "safe" unless there is a paper with it that says so, stamped and sealed by an agency authorized to issue such documents.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Peter Gamma

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I did not mean to make a product out of the paper, but to make a product out of the precious information which has been accumulated in this forum thread here. The paper only demonstrates, that the EEG board can be used for something. The forum thread information is helpful for anyone who wants to make a product out of it.
 


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