Author Topic: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread  (Read 7855 times)

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Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2021, 08:24:57 am »
At this time I have three 70000 systems, never could stop collecting these modules...[attachimg=1]

@K9DTV:
Do You have a 900/300 system running with the calibration software for the 70k system? I have a 900/382 controller with HP-UX running, but did not get it ready to talk to the 70k.

The system with the 70911A (Opt 001 (70Mhz IF), 004, 005) can connect to a 89600S system.

And I finally managed to upgrade the RAM/ROM Boards not only to current firmware, but also to 1MB RAM (Option "512"). If anyone is interested, I can post how to do it.

Peter
 
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Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2021, 08:38:53 am »
yes, you never have just one  :-DD

I have 4 9000/300, only one running with a os and it's ws with basic 6.2 on top.
I have the software from hp on my PC, but dont understand how to get it installed on the 9000/300

I am running b.06.03 on the 70900b's with the DLP for the 70911a.



« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 08:41:22 am by K9DTV »
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2021, 08:56:05 am »
I am running b.06.03 on the 70900b's with the DLP for the 70911a.

I have to work out how to get the DLP to my 70900B, but at this moment I have no time for it.
I was able to get RM Basic running on HP-UX, and to start sthe 70k-Software, but I have to invest more time, which I do not have right now.
Do You know if the DLPs are in the software package? As far as I know, there is no way to save a DLP out of the 70900B?

-Peter
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 09:01:26 am by pquadrat »
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2021, 09:06:06 am »
@pquadrat

I do not think the DLPs are in the software package from HP's site.
It does have all the test and cal software for the system.
It also has the RAM software for units like the 70700.
I found no way to download the DLP from the 70900b to the ram card or disk drive unit.
Wish I know more about RMB and how they archived this software.

 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 09:08:04 am by K9DTV »
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2021, 06:14:24 am »
@pquadrat
....
Wish I know more about RMB and how they archived this software.

I think I did uncompress the software successfully, they did it under HP-UX. But I did it a year ago, so I have to take a look again.
Problem is, the file format of the basic files can only viewed under RM Basic, its no text file format.

For a HP 900 0300 running only RM basic without HP-UX, I think we need to create LIF fomatted floppy disks. I did this years ago with a DOS PC for other old HP stuff.

-Peter
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2021, 06:58:56 am »

I think I did uncompress the software successfully, they did it under HP-UX. But I did it a year ago, so I have to take a look again.
Problem is, the file format of the basic files can only viewed under RM Basic, its no text file format.

For a HP 900 0300 running only RM basic without HP-UX, I think we need to create LIF fomatted floppy disks. I did this years ago with a DOS PC for other old HP stuff.

-Peter

I need to know how to decompress the files under DOS and transfer the files to an LIF formatted drive under DOS
or a GPIB drive under control of win 98.

I have a 9000/382 with a SCSI drive that does not boot, can see the partition under windows 98, but can't seem to copy it or view it's data.

Jim
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2021, 05:28:52 pm »
It turns out there is a way to copy out the complete memory of the 70900B.
This is done by using the USTATE command (see attachment).

also you can use Save Memory on the 70004a and save it to the MSIB memory card.
You have to use save as...  first to pick where you want to save the data.
This can be HP-IB or MSID or internal.

(added) use the menu item 'Save Memory' with a 70004A.

However you will need a card the size of the ram in your controller.
In the case of the option 512 you need a 85705a memory card (if 70900b memory is full. 256K if running just Rx_Mode  Software).

I have tried this with a 128K memory card and it does start copying, but then errors out with card full.
If you have a HP floppy drive system, this could be saved to disk.

Selecting and formatting the drive can be found under Menu...Misc...More...Catalog & MSI...

Saving and restoring can be found under State.


[attach=1]
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 05:43:32 am by K9DTV »
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2021, 08:40:45 pm »
I can confirm that a 70004A and 9122D is able to copy the contents from the 70900B option 512 memory.
And then copy it to another system, as I have just done it.

Update: I have just saved the program to a hp 85702A 128k memory card.
I did this by purging all the saved state files from the controllers memory( 70900B).

After recalling to the controller, all that needs to be done is set your default configuration and save it to the controller.

So I now have two cards and a few floppies loaded with the program and (4) 70900B (opt 512) with the program installed.

Jim
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 03:53:50 am by K9DTV »
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2021, 10:05:09 am »
I will try it with my 9122 Floppy drive i a few days.
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2021, 07:25:29 pm »
I will try it with my 9122 Floppy drive i a few days.

I was able to format a disk with my 7122D drive, and to write state and memory to it, and read it back in.

I found a DLP disk image with the customer demo Program http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_70000 here, tried to write it to a DD floppy with an old 486 PC, but after writing 70 tracks, I get an error, like "Disk is not ready" or so. But it may be this specific PC which does not work with teledisk, I have to try others.

Is there a tool to access the files on a LIF disk from a PC (DOS)?

And, some time ago, I was able to unpack the archives with the basic programy on a hp-ux machine. If anyone want thems, please let me know. But it is not clear-text basic, You neet HPs RMBASIC to read or run them.

Next step it to get the hp-ux machine to talk to the 70000.

-Peter
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 03:37:32 pm by pquadrat »
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2021, 03:40:43 pm »
I was able to write the TD0 file with the DLP program to a floppy disk without errors:

0. Use an old PC, 386 or 486 with DOS 6.22 or so
1. Format the floppy with HP LIFUTIL, DD double sided
2. use Teledisk 2.16 (2.11 does not work) to write the image.

But when I try to load the DLP into the 70900B, I get error 2055, bad file format. I think the LIF header is drong.

I can save and load states to the floppy without problems.

Any tips?


Edit:
With the method above I had SUCCESS with the 71910A receiver personality software, which can be found as a TD0 disk image on groups.io
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 04:34:50 pm by pquadrat »
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2021, 04:12:55 am »
I was able to write the TD0 file with the DLP program to a floppy disk without errors:

0. Use an old PC, 386 or 486 with DOS 6.22 or so
1. Format the floppy with HP LIFUTIL, DD double sided
2. use Teledisk 2.16 (2.11 does not work) to write the image.

But when I try to load the DLP into the 70900B, I get error 2055, bad file format. I think the LIF header is drong.

I can save and load states to the floppy without problems.

Any tips?


Edit:
With the method above I had SUCCESS with the 71910A receiver personality software, which can be found as a TD0 disk image on groups.io

First, I used the 70K system to format the disk.
Next I downloaded the memory from the 70900B
Then I uploaded it to another 70K systems 70900B.

Is this the software you are taking about in the group.io?
https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topic/24910293?p=,,,20,0,0,0::,,,0,0,0,24910293

I have not looked at this before, so I will look in to it.

You could also send me a PM and maybe I can just send you a disk.
I think you have have two ram cards and you could send one to me and I could load it on it for you.

Jim






 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2021, 07:22:18 am »
These two disks are the ones I found:

Receiver Personality:
https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/Above%2070000%20MMS/71910A%20Receiver%20Personality%20DLP

Demo DLP:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_70000

The receiver personality works, I can load it, but the customer demo DLP doesn't

I can write and read states etc. to a disk and read them back, no problem. It just does not accept the demo DLP.

 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2021, 10:32:50 pm »

Demo DLP:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_70000


The Demo DLP is for the 9000/300 computers, the stuff I am working with right now is the 70900 DLP
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2021, 12:50:20 am »
HT Basic from here works.  Run time and development versions are pretty expensive but demo works for 30 minutes at a time.  (It can run under modern Windows)

https://transera.com/
 
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Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2021, 02:24:28 am »
In order to work with any of the 9000/300 software, I need to get my 382 up and running.
It's current state is no hard drive, I need an image of a working system With the cal and test software for the 70k.
Or some help in getting this setup.

Picture is of one complete system, but would like to get a 70620B and 70340A with two options.





Fixed typos.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 02:32:32 am by K9DTV »
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2021, 02:25:25 am »
HT Basic from here works.  Run time and development versions are pretty expensive but demo works for 30 minutes at a time.  (It can run under modern Windows)

https://transera.com/

I will have to check that out, thank you.
 

Offline pquadrat

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2021, 02:15:57 pm »

Demo DLP:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_70000


The Demo DLP is for the 9000/300 computers, the stuff I am working with right now is the 70900 DLP

You are right! I expected it to be the Demo DLP package which I had on one of my 70900Bs. Still looking for it. It runs directly on the 70900B.
 

Offline K9DTV

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2021, 04:41:49 pm »

Demo DLP:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_70000


The Demo DLP is for the 9000/300 computers, the stuff I am working with right now is the 70900 DLP

You are right! I expected it to be the Demo DLP package which I had on one of my 70900Bs. Still looking for it. It runs directly on the 70900B.

I did some checking and this disk is to be run on the 70900 directly.
This manual talks about it on manual page 1-23 or pdf page 32

https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/9018-40123/installation-guides/9018-40123.pdf

 

Offline Marian.MQH

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2021, 10:30:59 am »
   Hello,
  I have an HP70k spectrum analyzer, consisting of the following blocks:

  HP 70601A RF ( 0...26,5GHz )
  HP 70906A Preselector ( 50k...26,5GHz
  and  70900A, 70903A, 70902A, 70004A 70311A

   I intend to improve its parameters by adding HP 70620A (Preamplifier 2-22GHz).
   My question is whether my HP 70k will work with this type of preamplifier (in its operating range 2..22GHz) ?

   Thank you in advance for any help.
 
   Marian
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 10:38:17 am by Marian.MQH »
 
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Offline ruhnet

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2021, 08:41:33 pm »
  HP 70601A RF ( 0...26,5GHz )
  HP 70906A Preselector ( 50k...26,5GHz
  and  70900A, 70903A, 70902A, 70004A 70311A

   I intend to improve its parameters by adding HP 70620A (Preamplifier 2-22GHz).
   My question is whether my HP 70k will work with this type of preamplifier (in its operating range 2..22GHz) ?

Marian, I would think it would at least partially work, but your readings could possibly be a bit off, depending on how the 70900 deals with the preamp being in the system. There's not documentation on non-standard configs like that, so it's mostly trial and error to see how it will behave. In general though, the system usually "tries" to work even with non-standard setups, but you sometimes get strange or off behavior.

The 70620 sends gain/flatness information to the 70900 so it can give you an accurate amplitude reading over the full frequency range. Whether or not the 70900 interprets that data correctly in the frequencies below 22GHz with a 70620A depends on how that data is used vs how it is done with the 70620B. I have a feeling it will work correctly, but I have not tried it.

I have a 70908A 22GHz RF section, and a 70600A 22GHz preselector that was intended to go with a 70905A RF section. I tried putting the 70600A in the chassis with my 70908, hoping that I could use the 70600A preselector independently via the tune voltage input. As I mentioned above, the system "tried" to work, but it wasn't a useful result. The 70900B saw the unit, and did not complain about it, but IIRC it blanked the trace below 3 GHz and above a certain range (maybe for the first band of the preselector---I don't remember the details exactly). The tune voltage did control the preselector correctly within one band, but the 70900 would not make it switch bands, since it wasn't paired with a 70905 input section, even though my 70908A is also 22GHz.

But I do not believe there are any band changes or anything like that with the 70620A preamp, just the calibration data as I mentioned above, so it is likely to work, and in the worst case probably just give some amplitude error (the microwave preamp is spec'd at +/-2.8dB over the range from 2-22GHz.) If it did show amplitude errors, you could measure the gain at various frequencies yourself with another instrument, and print out a correction table, or even generate a correction line that you could load in the analyzer and add to the trace to make it display accurately. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes!  :D

Edit: Also, make sure your 70900A has a firmware version late enough (900314 or later) to work with the 70620A.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 09:06:26 pm by ruhnet »
 

Offline Marian.MQH

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2021, 08:40:59 pm »
RUHNET, Thank you for your comprehensive answer to my question. I bought the HP70k (70601A, 70606A, 70900A, 70903A, 70902A) from a recycling company with the intention of recovering the elements - the visual condition of this equipment turned out to be so good that I decided to complete it. In another company, I bought more blocks (700004A, 70311A) and after I made the HP-MSIB cables myself, the analyzer started.
The software version is 900316 (at least this is what the display of the analyzer displays for a moment after switching on). Before mounting the preamplifier, I set its jumpers (ROW and COLUMN).After switching on, there were alarms 2025 and 6010, and when attempting to calibrate 2032. I checked the HF amplifier module outside the analyzer, which works OK. Due to other activities (testing AGC system for Tracking Generator SA FSEB30 R&S, which I made myself), I put off testing with HP70k.I will be grateful for any further advice.
Greetings
Marian
 

Offline ruhnet

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2021, 03:05:37 am »
Hmm, well unfortunately those errors look like either the preamp module is faulty, or that the 70900A is refusing to work with it, since the matching 22GHz RF section isn't installed. The 2032 upon CAL seems like it is wanting to communicate with the 22GHz RF section (probably to combine its flatness cal data with the flatness cal data from the preamp) and of course can't find it in the system. The other two errors are slave module communication errors, so it's either having trouble talking to the 70620 itself, or because of wanting to combine it with a 22GHz RF section.

I guess the way to know which situation is happening (faulty module vs refusal to control) would be to test in a 22GHz system.

But if that isn't an option one thing you could do though, since you have already tested and determined the actual amp is working, is to remove/disable some of the control circuitry in the 70620, and just power the internal preamp itself from the mainframe as a "dumb" accessory. This should let you use it at least, and you could apply amplitude correction to your measurements manually. You could drill a hole in the middle front panel and put a switch to control the path switching relays inside to insert/remove the preamp from the signal path. Or just leave it in the path all the time and connect/disconnect externally with a short jumper like it was intended to have between its output and the RF section.
 

Offline Marian.MQH

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Re: HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2021, 11:15:21 am »
 Hello,
Thanks for helpful information, as I wrote recently I am dealing with the AGC system for my TG FSEB30 (I have attached a photo of my project).

 After installing 70620A, the analyzer does not work properly. It displays only the trace of 3 ... 6.55GHz (LO range) with the signal at 3.61GHz (-2.57dBm) and does not react to the signal applied to the input.
It is not possible to check block 70620A in another analyzer, I am not sure if such a device is in Poland.
It will remain a modification of block 70620A, getting rid of the signal pins (leaving only the power to the amplifier and relays) and, as you wrote, mounting the switch on the front panel.It may not be "elegant", but it will sometimes allow you to take measurements.
You mentioned previously about problems with the preselector, fortunately my 70906A analyzer works OK - I can't imagine measurements without it due to the large number of false signals (low IF frequency).
Thank you very much Greetings.
Marian
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 11:18:07 am by Marian.MQH »
 


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