HP/Agilent 1675x logic analyzer card memory up-hack

[csc316]

I can confirm that converting a 16533a 1GSa oscilloscope board to a 16534a 2GSa board is as simple as swapping resistors R809 and R810.  Just did it. 

[Patrick.M]

I just became a member as of now.
Here is a shot of the resistor option configuration on my 16742A.
As far as I can see, the 1675X and 1674X PCB are the same, see images.
I would suspect that hp (Agilent) loads what software is need for a 75X over a 74X by it's ID Type.

[Patrick.M]

So far as I can see, from my 16750A and 16742A, they are simply the same PCB.

[Patrick.M]

I use the 16720A PG as a pulse generator to test my LA boards. Does a really good job.

[MarkL]

I use the 16720A PG as a pulse generator to test my LA boards. Does a really good job.

Thanks for the photos, Patrick.

Are you going to up-hack your 16742A to be a 16752A?  DocBen, a few posts back, was successful in getting a 16740A to be a 16752B, but was unable to do detailed testing to make sure everything worked at 1675x speeds.  Perhaps you can do some testing if you decide to modify your 16742A?

[MarkL]

Did anyone who has both 16717A and 16719A boards ever find the time to compare to see it the 16717A can be upgraded too (I'm up for upgrading the ROM ICs if I can find suitable ones).

If necessary I can pull a 16717A from the analyzer and take pix. 

Or are the 16718A/19A different beasties altogether?

Thanks
Dave

I have a 16717A and it's nothing like the 16719A, looking at pictures on ebay.  Also, a count of the populated memory on the 16717A says there's no unused memory laying around waiting to be activated.

I've never heard of any options for upgrading memory chips on these cards.  The memory is a 64-pin package and there's 34 of them.  Seems like a lot of work even if it was possible.

The 16719A looks a lot like the 1674x and 1675x series, but there's not sufficient resolution in the photos to figure out what memory is populated on it.  One photo that's on ebay right now has a sticker indicating it's a 16719A.  I wonder what's under the sticker...

[Patrick.M]

Mark,

Not any time soon. I'm all good on the idea of unlocking sequestered memory, but not so sure that changing from a slower class to a faster class of a digital product actually works as well as expanding the memory. My pessimistic thinking here says one could be yield issues, say with the gate array, ADC driver with some fixed calibration for that unit that relegated it to a slower product class. Just thinking.

With this, does anyone know if changing a16533A (250 MHz. 1Gs) scope to the 16534A (500 MHz. 2Gs.) with test results? I'm reluctant to do anything with mine. Even though I can see no differences between the two PCBs what so ever.

[texaspyro]

With this, does anyone know if changing a16533A (250 MHz. 1Gs) scope to the 16534A (500 MHz. 2Gs.) with test results?

I don't have any formal test results, but I have been using some upgraded 16533A's for years without any issues.    I just swapped the resistors and ran the calibration routine.   

[Patrick.M]

I'm fast becoming convenced it's the real-deal. I just wen't over my 1533A and 1534A and discoved that both have the same type markings on the chips. Two actually say 1534A on both boards. The front end attentuator module even has the same 1534A markings. I guess engineers are clever at geting components to do what we wan't them to do, so why shouldn't marketing engineers allow a feild engineer to perform an upgrade to lower end products, conveniently in the field, impressing certain customers who ghen may become very loyal.

I'm doing the R swap today and will let youall know.

[texaspyro]

I once bought a couple of expansion chassis that had 16533A's in them.   I noticed that those two resistors were hand soldered (flux residue) and the 16533A's had stickers for the model number applied over the 16534A on the board.   That clued me in that it was upgradable.   I checked a 16534 and found the resistor swap.   I suspect that HP builds 16534's and downgrade them when somebody buys the low end version.

[Patrick.M]

I just finished a series of step response tests on the two scopes in the same chassis. One my stock (stickered) 16534A, the other my stock (stickered) 16533A with the resistor swap. I'm a believer and satisfied as both can do better than 1.5 ns. rise and fall times.

What was that LA board I should speed up?

[texaspyro]

I'm a believer and satisfied as both can do better than 1.5 ns. rise and fall times.

Whoopie!   

[Patrick.M]

There are a modest number of legacy products hp, Agilent produced that are truly timeless, still useful today (and more so) and has a high degree of sovereigncy. The 1670X series is indeed a member of this elete club. I say sovereign, because it can operate entirely on it's own grounds, quite compatable with the newest PC's that can run a decent Xterm program. I use mine somewhat professionally and academically.
I can have big screen monitors on modern PCs with many of the tools on them from the 16700B running MobaXterm. Additionally, you can communicate directly with it via a number of methods under software control. I'm still learning all of it's untility. In my view, this helps make it very useful even though it takes time to boot and is big. I don't think the new replacement can do this and is still big and still takes time to bootup.

[Patrick.M]

Now I'm wondering if the 54622A & D scopes have any resitor options. I have yet to look the PCBs over real good, but as I remeber, it was real easy to mix up the 60MHz. 54621A with the 100 MHz. 54622A PCB as they both fit into exacly the same chassis.

[Patrick.M]

Unless I'm confused (easy to get so), your resitor line-up is different than what is shown in the original image that  MarkL posted. I decided to move the resistors on my 16742A to that of a 16752A. The main frame reported an error trying to write to the FPGA. Fortunatly, restoring the resistors to the 16742A configuration reversed the problem where all tests out okay. Could you look into this, please? If anything to get my mind straight.

I still work and am not able to spent much time with this, but seem to be getting the idea that retirment may be okay after all.

[MarkL]

Maybe there's some dependency on the exact model number after the dash.

The number under the sticker on both my 16751A (now turned into 16752A cards), is 16750-65501, same as your 16742A.

Did you try the resistor combination that I posted in the beginning of this thread?

[Patrick.M]

MarkL,

Yes, with 1K resitors. This is the only, 16742A I have, so I'm being a bit carfull with it and was rather happy to see it operate again. I seem to have an overt fondness & respect for this legancy equipment that sticks in my mind,  as I remeber all to well how unique and expensive it was in my earler years. Now my shop is awash in it, but only with what I use or really like to play with.

The main frame is a 16702B (SN: MY42001077) with option 003, OS, Software: A.02.90.00
16742A (SN: MY42000173)

The upgrade on the scope from a 16553A to a 165534A wen't quite well as did my 16750A to 16752A.

[MarkL]

Interesting that didn't work.  Maybe there's some differences or changes elsewhere on your board that makes it a 16742A.

One thing we've all noticed is that Agilent was quite sloppy in removing ID resistors to create the target board model.  Do you see flux residue or sloppy soldering anywhere else on your 16742A besides the resistors already pointed out?

Would you mind posting some high res photos front and back?  Or since you have both models there, you could also compare the two up close.

You have the same 16702B I have with the same software, so I don't think that's a factor.  There should be no harm in moving the resistors around, other than the mechanical stress from soldering.  But I understand your concern.

[Patrick.M]

Nope, boards were clean. I actually did post images of the two boards about three days ago. I'm still trying to figure out how to use this blog, so you may need to scan for them as I seem to have to rescan where I was when I make a reply (post) every time I gat back on.

[Patrick.M]

Mark,

So, I'm assuming you were sucsessful at moving your 16742A to a 16752A, yes?
Sorry as It's a bit clumsy for me researching the blog for just posts from you. Perhaps it's because I'm using an iPad.

[MarkL]

Mark,

So, I'm assuming you were sucsessful at moving your 16742A to a 16752A, yes?
Sorry as It's a bit clumsy for me researching the blog for just posts from you. Perhaps it's because I'm using an iPad.

No, I had two 16751A and turned them into 16752A.  DocBen reported he was able to make a 16740A into a 16752B here:

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-1675x-logic-analyzer-card-memory-up-hack/msg1361396/#msg1361396

I was only saying that since you and I both have 16750-65501 etched on the cards, I was expecting it to be the same base model but with different ID resistors.  Since the 16752A ID combination didn't work for your 16742A, there must be something else that's making the cards different.  I haven't seen an EEPROM on these models (unless I missed it), so I would look for a physical difference.

[Patrick.M]

I must have done somthing wrong, solder splash, or somthing. Once I have the time and interest to play with this again, I'll givite it another go. Meanwhile, I saw absolutely, as I can be, no physical differences between the one 142A and three 152A PCBs. The only difference are subtle marking differences (suffixes) on the larg Xlinx chips. Referencing the data sheet for this Xlinx series has not been any help either.

[PrecisionAnalytic]

I can confirm that converting a 16533a 1GSa oscilloscope board to a 16534a 2GSa board is as simple as swapping resistors R809 and R810.  Just did it.

Earlier today I referenced this upgrade hack on the [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] groups.io post since work was being performed on similar systems and that reminded me about the HP16533A hack into a 16534A by just swapping two resistors and was just verified with images:
https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equip…/message/96296

Alexandre just made an English post also:
https://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com/2019/05/repair-of-hp16533a-and-for-that-matter.html

When I need to, or use, the HP 16601A... I'll have to keep this in mind and plan to perform. Was waiting until I was sure about the SCSI Pi or other Emulator system I was going to make so I can use an IDE (PATA) or better newer drive, i.e. SATA. Probably can use an SD card since the data transfer rate isn't so high... though read write cycles, longevity and integrity was more the goal.

Anyone aware of any hacks for the 16601A?

I was thinking:
1. Making a SCSI emulator to update the drives
2. Wondering what the memory upgrade opportunities
3. Wondering about upgrading the motherboard

I haven't read into the later two capabilities yet and have read there aren't schematics for the HP 1653X or 16601A.

[schenkmi72]

Yatta!

So I have finally gotten around to try to get a 16740a to be a 16752b.

On my third attempt I succeed. (keep in mind however this just passes the self tests. I havent made any actual measurements with it so it might fail when doing actual work)

from R735 to R82:  - -RR-RRR- 
does it. (- open, R well, you know)

I used 1K 0.1% Resistors just like they are used on the board

I've try this on my 16740A but it didn't work for me. I already got an error while booting up and the self test says that it can't load the FPGA. I've tryied the 16742A ID resistores too but same issue. As it's a bit hard to acquire working 1674x  cards I don't like doing more experiments.
Cheers
Michael

[SpacedCowboy]

Just wanted to say thank you to those who originally posted this

I've just successfully bought a $100 16750A to go with a 16702B analyzer (which cost $340) and I now have a "16752A" board which on their own go for $900 or so.

Disregarding the price, I can now sample a few full video-frame's worth of data coming off the bus, including all address lines, data lines and control lines. Excellent