R&S CMU200 - Seeking info, documents and firmware

[Bicurico]

Hi,

I am officially starting to prepare my next purchase: a Rohde&Schwarz CMU200. I expect to be able to afford one around March/April 2017 (after my birthday  ).

Until then I will start reading into all available documents, forum threads, etc. This is what I normally do, when I want a new toy in my shack: I prepare myself. At the end, I even may decide against a purchase, but if I do get the device I have been studying, I will be able to use, hack, upgrade, repair it in no-time, due to the preparation.

Anyway, here a few points to get started:

• I have already found the threads on this forum (logical).
• I have downloaded brochures and manual.
• I would like to download the different firmware releases, but did not find any link. Could someone provide me with different firmware versions?
  At least one has been provided here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/enabling-options-for-rs-test-equipment/msg1100059/#msg1100059
• I understood that the authorisation for all software options resides on the harddisk. Question: what happens if you share a raw backup of unit 1 HDD and write it on unit 2 HDD? Will that activate all options on unit 2 (cloning it's serial number, too)?
  
  This has been answered here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rs-cmu200-software-(firmware)/msg740129/#msg740129 -> serial number is not stored on HDD
  Thread about firmware hack: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/enabling-options-for-rs-test-equipment/
  
• Important question: is there anything in particular, one should pay attention when browsing CMU200 on eBay? Are older generations worse? Is the PCMCIA interface important to have? Are there other important features?
• What is a good and reasonable price for a working unit in good cosmetic condition? I have seen prices from 500 to 20.000 US$! (I am aiming at 500-600 Euro)
• Anyone here going to sell his unit?
• Is the CRTU a good alternative? I am mainly interested in the spectrum analyser and signal generator functionaliy, but clearly it appeals to me to be able to monitor/test GSM/GPRS & BT, too.
• Have the European amongst you purchased a unit from the USA? How difficult was your customs experience? Did you do that within a company and with valid VAT number or as a private person?

Guess that is all FOR NOW...

Regards,
Vitor

[CJay]

I bought mine as faulty, from an American seller on eBay (NevadaSurplus I think), it was exactly as described, failed to boot and had a very dim screen caused by the reflectors around the CCFL aging and folding around the tube to mask most of the light) The fail to boot was caused by the 'PC' having lost its BIOS configuration, a factory reset solved that

The unit failed various self tests all of wich were fixed by stripping down the digital module and cleaning the sub module contacts (they were very tarnished).

On the hard disk were three different versions of the software (which may or may not be complete, still investigating that) from 3 up to the last available 5.21, easilt selectable via 'Version Manager' and as I'm sure you're now aware, it's rather simple to generate keys with a Python script.

As you've discovered the serial number is held somewhere in the hardware as well as the software.

I bought, in anticipation of a failed hard disk, a disk from another eBay seller (which turned out not to be needed) and when it's installed in my CMU I have only access to the basic RF/Audio functions, no further options are enabled.

They are a heavy unit (It's uncomfortable for me to carry for any distance one handed, I use the gym and am a large, rugby player build) and need to be packed really well, mine arrived with a dent in the upper right corner but the seller was most helpful and offered a partial refund.

I didn't take the refund as it was far simpler to get it working than I expected and I regarded it as a bargain at that point, total cost ignoring my time was a shade over £300.

5. I've got the earlier FMR5 AMD processor module but it doesn't appear to be any disadvantage for me thus far, I will investigate retrofitting the later version if I find one as I believe the later ones allow boot from USB devices which might be useful.

I've got the PCMCIA version, the other option was floppy, right at this moment I'd prefer the floppy version as I have a brand new box of disks on the shelf but on balance, the PCMCIA version would be more useful, I need to buy a PCMCIA to CF adapter.

There are several/many different hardware configurations, the CMU and CRTU are very modular so you can add/remove boards like the B41 Audio module, second Generator module etc. The calibration travels with the modules I believe.

The onboard reference can be upgraded, mine is the midrange one and is more than accurate enough comapred to all the other standards and measurements I can make, of cource YMMV but you can lock them to an external reference too.

6. I paid a shade over £300 as mentioned above but 5-600 will find you a nice working one.
 
7. No. Not unless I find something better/cheaper

8. CRTU is, I believe, the same machine to all intents and purposes but has a Windows 2000 partition which is used for automatd testing software, probably no use to anyone other than a cellphone manufacturer/repair facility

9. Bought mine from the US, shipped to the UK, private person, no issues at all with customs, shipping, invoices, anything, other than the eyewatering cost of shipping and import duty which, combined, was more than half the total price.

[Bicurico]

Thank you very much for your detailed description! I think I wouldn't have dared to bid on a broken unit... Glad you did!

Hopefully some more will tell about their experience... Are there people who got really broken units? Like, beyond repair?

I am actually mostly scared of shipping and customs. VAT alone would be 23%!

Regards,
Vitor

[CJay]

Thank you very much for your detailed description! I think I wouldn't have dared to bid on a broken unit... Glad you did!

Hopefully some more will tell about their experience... Are there people who got really broken units? Like, beyond repair?

I am actually mostly scared of shipping and customs. VAT alone would be 23%!

Regards,
Vitor

No way could I afford to lose the money I spent so it was a gamble but I got lucky.

Very Lucky.

I would reccomend the seller I bought from, nice to deal with and they sell what appear to be 'honest' instruments. 

20% VAT here in the UK.

While I'm typing this message I've discovered that the software on my CMU isn't a full complement, it's missing the AMPS package I am interested in (which prompted me to start the 'options' thread) but I've also discovered that I can swap disk images at will and the serial number remains the same, it's just a matter of enabling the various options.

Which is no use if the software to use the options isn't present of course.

However, the more I explore the more I learn and uncover about installing those options.

[Bicurico]

 

Been following eBay for about 2 weeks on the CMU200 and CRTU and they are offered for substantially more money than I thought.

The lowest price for a CMU200 is 700 US$ + 63 US$ shipping + aprox. 170 US$ taxes. Total price around 900 US$.
The lowest price for a CRTU is currently 495 US$. Seems in good condition, but no info on shipping costs. Considering similar shipping/tax costs, comes to around 700 US$.

Question: has the CRTU a similar DOS mode like the CMU200? Is the analyser/generator functionaity the same? Do you have the other tests available, too? Is the Windows partition an addition or will you actually lack functionality in regards to a CMU200? If so, what is missing?

Anyway, either the prices come down or I won't be able to afford/justify such a beast... The above mentioned prices are the cheapest and don't necessarily represent the condition, seller reputation and overall looks&feeel of the deal I would feel comfortable with. But a better condition, more complete description, more pictures and the starting price is way higher.

Cheers,
Vitor

[Bicurico]

Hi,

I really would appreciate some enlightment on this questions:

Has the CRTU a similar DOS mode like the CMU200? -> From what I have read: YES
Is the analyser/generator functionaity the same? -> From what I have read: YES
Do you have the other tests/measurements/options available, too? -> THIS I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW! CAN YOU USE THE KEYGEN TO GENERATE THE RELEVANT OPTION KEYS? WOULD THAT WORK?
Is the Windows partition an addition or will you actually lack functionality in regards to a CMU200? -> CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM?
If so, what is missing? -> CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL?

It seems to me, that the CMU200 are getting more and more popular or the big batches have already been sold and devices now listed at eBay are sold with better knowledge what these can do.
Because of this, I am considering getting a CRTU, which seems to be sold at lower prices. However, it would annoy me to find out that in order to save 200-300 €/$/£ I ended up lacking interesting functionality-

Thanks,
Vitor

[tmbinc]

The CRTUs have a DOS mode, but can't do GSM signalling tests in DOS mode (they use different hardware), but can do non-signalling.  They can do the basic stuff (Spectrum Analyzer, Signal Generator, Power Meter), but you can't use the second RF channel. The CRTU doesn't have the hardware option for the more specific measurements - no audio, no bluetooth, no AMPS etc. I do not think you can keygen anything useful for them. That said - what they can do _is_ very_ useful, and really if you want to demodulate anything, just get an SDR.

The Windows partition is fully separate and a story of its own. Technically the "DOS mode" is only there for calibration, but that doesn't stop the Spectrum Analyzer etc. from being useful.

If someone wants to work with GSM protocol conformance testing, the CRTUs (with the Windows software) are very, very useful. Outside of OsmocomBB developers, I couldn't think of anyone who would, though.

If you can get a cheap CRTU, go for it. In the recent auctions, they were sold for almost nothing. They are worth more, of course - ~$500 seems like a fair price for a working unit.

[Bicurico]

tmbinc, thank you for your detailed response.

500$ is what I am looking at, plus shipping, plus taxes... this comes to a total of about 750$ for a CRTU in EU.

1000$ is what the last CMU200 has been sold for inside EU. So it really isn't that much of a difference and from your response, I would say the CMU200 is the "cooler" device to have.

Anyway, my conclusion so far is that prices have gone up or at least the sellers think so...

Anything over 600$ is outside my budget, so I will keep looking - someday I might get a deal.

Cheers,
Vitor

[CJay]

I did look into getting a CRTU and it was still an option up until the CMU turned up at the right price, if it's correct that K29 will not work on a CRTU then I dodged a bullet as it's proving to be very useful for me.

I seem to remember in a phone call I had with a member here that the CRTU could have Bluetooth though, pretty sure he named it as one of the major benefits for him BICBW.

It seems that they can be in a vast number of configurations, as such it becomes very important to obtain a list of installed 'B' options before buying if at all possible.

I'm pretty sure you could unlock new options but as tmbinc says, if the relevant hardware isn't present then there's no point.   

[RF_fanatic]

For your information I expect a new old stock clearance in the upcomming months on the usual auction sites as today I received a list full of CMU units which are released for sale comming from mobile phone manufactureres. But indeed people more and more know what it can do and prices have increased over time. So I expect these will be bought and resold by traders on the usual sites.

I have quite a few units in need to be repaired, unrepaired I can sell them in the range of 250-350 euro per unit , and some for 400 (still sealed and untested but marked as defective). As you might have noticed even for the front alone they charge 150 euro on ebay

Finding a good unit for under 700 euro is wishfull thinking in my opinion, good onces you will find between 1000-1600 euro landed in europe

[usagi]

i lucked out and got a cmu200 for USD$800. came in beautiful condition, loaded with B11,B21V14,B54V14,B56V54,B68,U65.

it's really fantastic hardware for the money. with freres and gpib interface i now have everything i wanted.