I NEED AN OSCILLOSCOPE!

[Dylon124]

I'm involved in electronics for some time and I'd like to finally get an oscilloscope. I found that I've been running into many situations where I need one Like in testing power supplies over time. Some anyone own or suggest an oscilloscope I can get. Analog or digital? Price expectancy? Please help me!!!!

[peter.mitchell]

All depends on budget.

[notsob]

This post pisses me off.
Rather than come on the forum with 'I need a scope'. How about reading the forum first. There is a wealth of information on scopes here.

So stop being a lazy bastard and do some basic research and background reading first.

[K6TR]

Dylan your question is overly broad to the point where it is difficult to give you an answer in a short response. First you need to very carefully assess your needs. This is not as simple as it sounds. Next to the Multimeter the Oscilloscope will probably be the second most used piece of equipment on your bench. Then you have to assess what your budget is and if you are able to forego that purchase to save your pennies for a more capable platform in the future. The prices of Oscilloscopes range from $400 for the cheapest models brand new to $16,000 for those with the highest capabilities. You say your work involves power supplies. Are you always going to be doing that ? Is that the only thing you want it for ? If so you should be able to get by with a scope at the lower end of the price range. But let's say you want to expand into Radio Work. Your old scope purchased for power supply work may not serve you for those purposes. That will require you to go out and purchase another scope. The same can be said if your work extends up into the VHF Spectrum, if you are going to do TV Work, or even Microwave work. Excellent bargains can be had on the used equipment market but you have to know what you are looking for and how to evaluate it's condition. A cheap scope may be more than acceptable if you have come to grips with the reality that you may have to purchase and 2nd or 3rd as your needs increase.

Dave has a number of Videos on scopes. You should view them all before you pull your money out of your pocket. Another excellent source of videos on Oscilloscopes is Alan Wolke's Youtube page. He is an Applications Engineer with Tektronix arguably the foremost producer of Oscilloscopes in the world. He has close to 90 videos up on his you tube page. About a third deal with oscilloscopes and range from questions deal with basic issues to circuits that can turn your oscilloscope in a TV Monitor. here is the link : https://www.youtube.com/user/w2aew

It will take a considerable amount of time to go through all of it but it will be time well spent.


Bob

[Hydrawerk]

Well, there are many threads about oscilloscopes...  Why to start a new one.

[Joules]

Ahh, but none with a Poll like this one   

Poll deleted

[eKretz]

I am new to 'scopes also and have a lot of questions too. I understand where you guys are coming from with the specifics, but keep in mind a lot of new guys don't know what they don't know, if you will. That makes it hard to search the forum for useful info since all I can really search is oscilloscopes or the like, and I could read for days or even weeks and possibly not find what is important to advise a purchase. I have been looking at older analog scopes and some of the borderline digitals from when they first started transitioning. I am a bit confused by the sampling rates, but as far as I can gather, it is essential to get as high a sampling rate as you can if you get a storage scope. Is it absolutely necessary to get storage? What kinds of things could I accomplish with a storage scope that wouldn't be possible with a non-storage 'scope? Most of the work I will be doing in the foreseeable future would be small motor drive circuits and electronic device repairs of all sorts. Would I be just fine with a non-storage analog 'scope?

[c4757p]

The difference is that you, eKretz, have specific questions. If you "don't know what you don't know", read rather than expecting everyone to know for you. Pick up a book, have a go at Google, whatever, but if you don't know what you don't know, that means you haven't spent long enough absorbing information.

[BravoV]

I am new to 'scopes also and have a lot of questions too. I understand where you guys are coming from with the specifics, but keep in mind a lot of new guys don't know what they don't know, if you will.

Agree at some degrees, but at least any scope's noob should come up with "budget", c'mon, how hard could this be ?

[alm]

eKtretz: Your post is already infinitely better than the original post, since you ask some specific questions. Storage is not essential. I would prefer a good analog scope over an early digital scope. Early digital scopes tended to have a low sampling rate or very short memory. You want a decent memory (say at least 10k points) and decent sampling rate (>= 200 MS/s). I would not bother with anything less than a Rigol DS1052E. Refer to Dave's rant titled 'Buy a real analog oscilloscope please! if you're considering the cheap PC-based/DSO-nano like DSO offerings. Normal analog scopes can only observe repetitive phenomena, for example a continuous audio signal or power supply ripple. Digital storage scopes are useful for 'single-shot' events, for example the turn-on spike of a system, or a serial data stream. The far majority of the problems can be solved with either an analog or a digital scope.

There are also analog storage scopes, just ignore these. They are completely obsolete.

A good place to start would be Dave's videos about the Rigol DS1052E and the Tek 2225 (these were quite early, search his Youtube channel), and some of the introductory videos on W2AEW's Youtube channel. You will need to understand what a scope is if you want to make an informed decision.

[c4757p]

For someone just getting into a hobby, "budget" can be hard to quantify. I know that when I was just starting, I had no idea at all what I was willing to spend on something like that. I'd rather figure out what I need, then decide whether I am willing to buy it. If I won't, it won't do me much good to settle for something less, since I "need" it - I'll just settle for basket weaving for a while until I can afford it.

[eKretz]

Thank you alm, good info there. I appreciate your candid and helpful answer.

Posted by: c4757p
« on: Today at 11:23:45 AM
The difference is that you, eKretz, have specific questions. If you "don't know what you don't know", read rather than expecting everyone to know for you. Pick up a book, have a go at Google, whatever, but if you don't know what you don't know, that means you haven't spent long enough absorbing information.

This is true, but at the same time, it could be said about anyone who asks any question. The point of asking a question of those who already know the answer rather than reading everything one can find is to get the answer quickly and thereby increase the rate of learning. If everyone took the approach of just reading about everything related to a subject of interest, there would be a lot of unnecessary garbage floating around in our brains, and a lot of wasted time. People have been bitching about people asking noob questions since right after the internet began. For me, personally, I am happy to help out a noob, when one comes along who knows less than me. I guess my point is that I can see both sides of the coin, and neither one should make anyone "pissed off" IMO.  %-B If anyone has any questions about machining, feel free to ask, BTW!   

[Lightages]

Dylon124

You are obviously new to asking questions, new to forums, new to polls, and new to dealing with people.

You need to say where you are, what price you are thinking, what you want to do, and pose a question that someone can answer. If you don't do these things you will be viewed as a troll and people will not help you.

[Bored@Work]

The only answer to the poll is 42, and that isn't an option.

[eevblogfan]

hey

Why don't you contact your local distributor ( agilent or any other ) and ask him for either used or new one to your budget ?

I bought mine for only 800$ ( with all the wavegen and DVM - the cost is near 2K , while I got it only for 800$ ) 

I need to know your budget , please shear it with us , assuming you can save 200$ A- month , please do so and buy some rigol

to my opinion you don't need more then the DS1052E , it's cost is ridiculous , around the 300~400$ and within two month of saving you will manage to buy it successfully

I also recommend you to get some analogue 20Mhz 1mV per DIV resolution scope , no matter what brand , please talk to the local university and ask for old analogue one , they might ask for 10$ and might give that for freee !!!!!!!!

Cheers !

[Wuerstchenhund]

The prices of Oscilloscopes range from $400 for the cheapest models brand new to $16,000 for those with the highest capabilities.

$16,000 for a scope isn't much, and only buys you a some midrange model. High end scopes can easily surpass $200,000. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

I am new to 'scopes also and have a lot of questions too. I understand where you guys are coming from with the specifics, but keep in mind a lot of new guys don't know what they don't know, if you will. That makes it hard to search the forum for useful info since all I can really search is oscilloscopes or the like, and I could read for days or even weeks and possibly not find what is important to advise a purchase.

That's true, but then you would also find previous threads where other beginners have asked most of the basic questions already.

I have been looking at older analog scopes and some of the borderline digitals from when they first started transitioning. I am a bit confused by the sampling rates, but as far as I can gather, it is essential to get as high a sampling rate as you can if you get a storage scope. Is it absolutely necessary to get storage?

Digital scopes always employ storage as this is how they work, so there is none without storage capabilities. It's only with analogue scopes where you distinguish between scopes without storage functionality and scopes which have a storage CRT.

Analog storage scopes also don't have a sampling rate.

In terms of what sampling rate you need if you get a DSO, this depends on what the highest sine frequencies are you want to look at. The max real-time sampling rate of your scope should ideally be ten times the highest sine frequency content of the signals you want to look at (which includes glitches). For example, if you look at mostly non-repetitive sine waves up to say 20MHz, then say a 50MHz scope with 200MSa/s would probably easily do the job. However, if you look at non-repetitive non-sine signals (i.e. say square waves or pulses), which essentially are combination of multiple sine waves at the same and higher frequencies, it gets a bit more complicated. Let's say you are looking at 10MHz square waves, in this case you'd probably want at least a 100MHz with at 500MSa/s or better.

What kinds of things could I accomplish with a storage scope that wouldn't be possible with a non-storage 'scope?

A non-storage analog scope only shows you what's happening in real time, which can make rare glitches very hard to find and often impossible to quantify. An analog storage scope at least lets you capture such events, but only a DSO lets you properly examine glitches.

Unless you're really tight on cash, I'd get a DSO.

[eKretz]

Wuerstchenhund - (little sausage dog?) Do I remember my German correctly?    Thank you very much for your post. The guideline of 10x the frequency is something that is useful and understandable. I get where you're coming from re: finding other beginners' posts, but I have also been kvetched at for dredging up necro-posts on some forums too. I guess sometimes you just can't win.

What it seems to come down to is that one needs to know exactly what one will be doing with it to get a good clear and concise recommendation for a 'scope, and in many beginners' cases, they really have naught but a general idea. This is where Dave's recommendation of an analog starter scope begins to make a lot of sense. Personally, I hate buying things more than once, so when I have the means I prefer to buy something that will last me and be of good quality so that it won't need to be replaced anytime soon. My means are a little short at the moment, (bad back, failed surgeries) but hopefully that will change eventually.

Again I would like to thank all the persons who have contributed to the discussion and attempted to answer my -and Dylan's- questions.   

[nctnico]

I'm  not sure if buying the best piece of equipment once and for all is the best plan. I usually buy the cheapest equipment I can find and upgrade (sell and buy something different) when necessary.

[AndyC_772]

The only answer to the poll is 42, and that isn't an option.

I voted for "analogue or digital", on the basis that one or the other is very likely to meet the OP's requirements. 

[vk6zgo]

-There are also analog storage scopes, just ignore these. They are completely obsolete.

Obsolete,true enough,but only the very early analog storage 'scopes (circa 1950)had
compromised performance when used in the non-storage mode.

You can quite happily ignore the storage function & the 'scope will still be a useful instrument.
For instance,my Tektronix 7613 has the same performance as its non-storage equivalent.

OK,it's something else to go wrong,but people may shy away from them,allowing you to get a bargain,as I did.

[SLJ]

I couldn't decide which to select in the poll,

Which oscilloscope should I get?
or
Digital or analog?

The question depends on what you want to accomplish with it.  I would not spend a lot (in scope terms) on a first scope.  If you do decide on digital I would check out the Rigol DS2072.  Under $1,000 at 70 MHz.  My self, I use an analog scope the most but I work in mostly restoring vintage electronics and have opted for a good older Tek analog scope along with a cheap DSO for quick waveform measurements.  Again, it all depends on what you want to do with it.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I couldn't decide which to select in the poll,

Which oscilloscope should I get?
or
Digital or analog?

I think it's clearly "Which oscilloscope should I get?" as the OP obviously has no idea what he wants. "Digital or analog?" would indicate that he had spent some time researching the basics, which apparently he has left us to do for him.

[Ghydda]

Instead of discussing off topic why not present the dude with a small list and let him be on his way?

If you have never touched a scope before, get an old'ish CRT based model with two channels and 50MHz bandwidth.
If you are a little experienced, get the Rigol DS1052E.
If you want more capability further down the road without having to swap gear, get the Rigol DS2072 or DS2202 (for the upgradable function).

If neither option is to your liking, then you need to be able to be much more specific in stating your exact needs and wants.

As no recommendation will suit all forum users here I'm sure the suggested list will vary from person to person.
But on the whole, can anybody say this would be a bad list to choose from?

[Wuerstchenhund]

Wuerstchenhund - (little sausage dog?) Do I remember my German correctly?   

Exactly   

Thank you very much for your post. The guideline of 10x the frequency is something that is useful and understandable.

You're welcome! The thing to remember when you look at frequencies however is not just about the frequency of the signal you're looking at, you should also consider what possible glitches (which can have much higher frequency contents than the base signal) you want to capture and examine. Which i admit for a starter is not easy.

I get where you're coming from re: finding other beginners' posts, but I have also been kvetched at for dredging up necro-posts on some forums too. I guess sometimes you just can't win.

There's no need to revive old threads. Just do a search and read a bit around, and you might find the answer to at least some of your questions. Then just open a new thread for the remaining ones. You should not be afraid to ask, asking is perfectly fine (at least as I'm concerned). It just helps to show that you at least tried to find answers yourself.

What it seems to come down to is that one needs to know exactly what one will be doing with it to get a good clear and concise recommendation for a 'scope, and in many beginners' cases, they really have naught but a general idea. This is where Dave's recommendation of an analog starter scope begins to make a lot of sense.

Yes, it's very difficult for many starters to recognize what they actually need, but people here can certainly help if they're given as much information as possible (i.e. what are your ideas what you want to do, and most importantly, your budget).

Personally, I hate buying things more than once, so when I have the means I prefer to buy something that will last me and be of good quality so that it won't need to be replaced anytime soon.

I'd say forget it, it does not work. if you are a beginner you most certainly won't know where your path in EE will end up going, so you will be paying an overly high amount of money for features you either won't need, or if you need them later on can be had for much less money. Also don't forget that a decent EE lab contains of much more tools than justa  scope and a DMM, and you want to have some money for say an AWG (Arbitrary Waveform Generator) and good hand and soldering tools.

Buy a decent but not overly expensive entry level scope now, and save money for something better when you find that your requirements have out-grown your scope. I'd recommend getting a decent DSO as a first scope (many people recommend that the first scope should be analogue as it is better for learning, I disagree with that) but even an analogue one will do for a beginner.