Author Topic: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!  (Read 5614 times)

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Offline ROFLCat

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2020, 01:27:23 pm »
I don't think it's a good 'scope after seeing the reviews and stuff. Commonly BNCs break, slow UI, slow updating, no advanced math features, dim and slow LCD, they all make me go "meh".
 

Offline smaultre

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2020, 03:21:49 pm »
I think Tek TDS3000(b) series is the most preferred for 1-st osc.
0) Small.
1) Can be upgraded (FOR~FREE) to 500(600)MHz@5Gs its a very good for its price.
2) Can be upgraded (FOR~FREE) with universal module to support advanced triggering modes.
3) Have professional 50Ohm inputs, that supported the ultra wide range of active probes (High frequency, differential, mA current, high voltage dif, e.t.c).
4) Active probes REALLY CHEAP (compared with other brands) and its so much on stock.
5) (B) series can be easy connected to PC by LAN.
6) Noisy fan can be replaced with quiet "hydra-bearing" from  the PC store.
7) Really cheap for its pros.

The next-one goes TDS5000B series its cheap
and provides a big screen and huge of functionality.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 04:13:27 pm by smaultre »
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2020, 03:28:23 pm »
I don't think it's a good 'scope after seeing the reviews and stuff. Commonly BNCs break, slow UI, slow updating, no advanced math features, dim and slow LCD, they all make me go "meh".
And terribly noise too. Tek made a lot of nice DSOs but the TDS200 series isn't one of them.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline battlecoder

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2020, 05:33:57 pm »
I still think a Rigol DS1052 makes a really good first scope, even if it's "old". I used one for 10 years and I kinda regret selling it when I "upgraded". Sometimes I still wish I had it here.
 

Offline ROFLCat

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2020, 06:06:01 pm »
I think Tek TDS3000(b) series is the most preferred for 1-st osc.
0) Small.
1) Can be upgraded to 500(600)MHz@5Gs its a very good for its price.
2) Can be upgraded with universal module to support advanced triggering modes.
3) Have professional 50Ohm inputs, that supported the ultra wide range of active probes (High frequency, differential, mA current, high voltage dif, e.t.c).
4) Active probes REALLY CHEAP (compared with other brands) and its so much on stock.
5) (B) series can be easy connected to PC by LAN.
6) Noisy fan can be replaced with quiet "hydra-bearing" from  the PC store.
7) Really cheap for its pros.

The next-one goes TDS5000B series its cheap
and provides a big screen and huge of functionality.

Thanks for your reply.

Well, there are lots of good oscilloscopes for decent prices, but my country makes everything absurdly expensive for no reason and I have a very limited budget of about $350.
 

Offline ROFLCat

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2020, 06:09:16 pm »
I still think a Rigol DS1052 makes a really good first scope, even if it's "old". I used one for 10 years and I kinda regret selling it when I "upgraded". Sometimes I still wish I had it here.

Yeah, I still have that on my list. A bit expensive for me but I'll get one if I can't find anything within a month or something.

Thankfully, there has been a huge drop on the exchange rate of US Dollars to Rials so, I might be able to get something good if it keeps dropping?
 

Online Fungus

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2020, 07:36:44 pm »
I still think a Rigol DS1052 makes a really good first scope, even if it's "old". I used one for 10 years and I kinda regret selling it when I "upgraded". Sometimes I still wish I had it here.

Yep. I played with one of those older Rigols the other day when I was visiting a factory and I was, like, "Hey, this is really fun/cute to use".

Simplicity can be good. I'd be perfectly happy to own one of those.

The only thing that would be missing (for me) would be serial decoders but you can get really cheap devices for that.

Edit: And I'm not sure if it does FFT.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 11:26:50 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline battlecoder

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2020, 09:33:01 pm »
I still think a Rigol DS1052 makes a really good first scope, even if it's "old". I used one for 10 years and I kinda regret selling it when I "upgraded". Sometimes I still wish I had it here.

Yep. I played with one of those older Rigols the other day when I was visiting a factory and I was, like, "Hey, this is really fun/cute to use".

Simplicity can be good. I'd be perfectly happy to own one of those.

The only thing that would be missing (for me) would be serial decoders but you can get really cheap devices for that.
Indeed. Modern scopes with more features can be overwhelming or cumbersome to use, especially for quick measurements. Having a bunch of features and settings is great, but if you don't have the right combination of options selected you can easily sabotage your measurements. Funny that you mention serial decoding; one of the reasons I upgraded to a more modern scope was actually serial decoding. Turns out I've rarely used that feature. I have a dirt cheap logic analyzer that works great for that, and it's way easier to explore and dump serial data with it, than it is to do it with the scope.
 

Offline uski

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2020, 03:51:50 am »
Wow! An ad for a Tektronix TDS 220 popped up. 100MHz, 1GS/s, and 2 channels. It's a bit of an old model but I think it's pretty sweet, listed for about $330 and I can buy it in less than a day. The seller says it's fully functional and clean. I don't know if he would include the probes or not so I just asked and I'm waiting for an answer.

Should I go for it? An alternative to this would be a DS1052E which is more expensive or a GW Instek 'scope with very low specs (like 40MHz or something).

Update: They replied and told me it has 1 probe.

Be aware it has very limited memory, absolutely no decode feature, and unless it has the TDS2MM or TDS2CM module, no communication capabilities at all, which is annoying since you can't do screenshots or anything. It seems like a very steep price given the age of the instrument. But it's good quality, I liked it. I owned it for years, more than a decade, but I sold it.

A DS1054Z from Rigol would be a thousand times better in my opinion.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2020, 04:17:01 am »
Find a way to go for this:

http://www.saelig.com/product/sds1202x-e.htm

It will be 200 MHz and have two probes, and will be new and will have a 7” 800x480 color screen instead of a 5.7” 320x240 monochrome screen plus a bunch of additional useful and enjoyable features including color intensity grading :)

It is a no brainer.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 04:26:42 am by Electro Fan »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2020, 04:26:04 am »
Find a way to go for this:

It is a no brainer.

It might be if OP didn't live where he lives.

 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2020, 04:29:15 am »
Find a way to go for this:

It is a no brainer.

It might be if OP didn't live where he lives.

OP is resourceful and if he can maybe find a Rigol he can maybe find a Siglent.  First step is to know what he is looking for.
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2020, 12:35:29 pm »
I still think a Rigol DS1052 makes a really good first scope, even if it's "old". I used one for 10 years and I kinda regret selling it when I "upgraded". Sometimes I still wish I had it here.

My first encounter with Rigol was the DS1052D/E and it made a very bad impression on me.  It lacks peak detection which I consider essential on any DSO but you would not immediately know it because the documentation lies by referring to envelope detection as peak detection.  I only knew because I had tested one.  Rigol's customer service was less than helpful and tried to convince me that they were the same thing.

I bought and refurbished Tektronix 2230 instead.  I would never recommend the Rigol DS1000D/E series.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 12:37:18 pm by David Hess »
 

Offline ROFLCat

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2020, 10:03:41 pm »
Find a way to go for this:

http://www.saelig.com/product/sds1202x-e.htm

It will be 200 MHz and have two probes, and will be new and will have a 7” 800x480 color screen instead of a 5.7” 320x240 monochrome screen plus a bunch of additional useful and enjoyable features including color intensity grading :)

It is a no brainer.

Oh I doubt I could get one. The companies that import stuff only purchase from websites like Amazon and TaoBao, I don't think they would purchase from that website.

The specs are impressive and well, it's from Siglent.
 

Online tautech

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2020, 06:08:46 am »
Dubai is your closest Siglent dealer:
https://www.anaum.ae/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Come visit us at EMEX 15th - 17th February. Hall 1 Stand 1002
https://www.emex.co.nz/
 

Online Fungus

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2020, 01:48:19 pm »
My first encounter with Rigol was the DS1052D/E and it made a very bad impression on me.  It lacks peak detection which I consider essential on any DS

You're special.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2020, 05:09:18 pm »
My first encounter with Rigol was the DS1052D/E and it made a very bad impression on me.  It lacks peak detection which I consider essential on any DS

You're special.

Is that your only reply?  Don't you have some better personal insults to make?  Don't hold back; tell us what you really think.

What part of what I said about the DS1052D/E series was wrong?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 05:13:38 pm by David Hess »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2020, 06:35:13 pm »
Actually I don't think the DS1052 lacks peak detect. One of my customers has one (without digital channels) and I recall it being able to do peak detect. The problem is that Asian oscilloscope brands (most notably the Japanese) mis-label peak detect as envelope mode.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2020, 07:41:01 pm »
What part of what I said about the DS1052D/E series was wrong?

The part that was incorrect was telling somebody with limited budget in a country where test gear cost a fortune that they can't possibly buy a DS1052E because it doesn't have a feature they might never need.


Edit: I don't have a DS1052E in front of me but the manual says it has it, in section 2-56:

https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/Users+Guide+DS1000E.pdf

Quote
Peak  Detect Acquisition: Peak  Detect  mode  captures  the  maximum  and minimum  values  of  a  signal.  Finds  highest  and  lowest  record  points  over  many acquisitions.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 07:48:20 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline battlecoder

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2020, 08:44:34 pm »
I really don't quite remember if the DS1052 had Peak Detect or not. I vaguely remember using it, but wouldn't trust my memory on that one.
Having said that, I managed to find a video review (in Spanish, though. Was hard to find a video where they would actually get into the Acquisition Mode menu. Most reviewers just ignore it) that shows that the feature is indeed there, and it's properly called "Peak Detect". It's not under a different name (as already shown in the manual shared by @Fungus)) or anything.

https://youtu.be/htBXEjGV5CY?t=461

Maybe you are thinking of a different scope, @David Hess?
 

Offline dave j

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2020, 08:51:35 pm »
My DS1102E seems to have peak mode. If envelope mode requires multiple trigger events[1] then it won't work in single shot mode.

Attached are two images of my DS1102E's probe compensation waveform captured in single shot mode and zoomed in. Displayed as dots and vectors.

Admittedly the way it's presented might not match other scopes. Having the two lines, one that links the max values and the other that links the min values, might be better than having one line that alternates between max/min values but that's a presentation issue.


[1]Tektronix's definition
Quote
Envelope mode: Builds a waveform “envelope” from the highest maximum values and lowest minimum values among the corresponding samples from two or more trigger events (acquisitions).
I'm not David L Jones. Apparently I actually do have to point this out.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2020, 04:10:40 am »
Having said that, I managed to find a video review (in Spanish, though. Was hard to find a video where they would actually get into the Acquisition Mode menu. Most reviewers just ignore it) that shows that the feature is indeed there, and it's properly called "Peak Detect". It's not under a different name (as already shown in the manual shared by @Fungus)) or anything.

The point is that the DS1052D/E series has a feature called peak detection, which on other DSOs going back decades is called envelope detection.  Envelope detection is as easy as averaging to implement during processing but peak detection requires hardware and happens during decimation.

And then when you get to the DS1000Z series, peak detection as described in the manual is different since they actually implemented it.

My DS1102E seems to have peak mode. If envelope mode requires multiple trigger events[1] then it won't work in single shot mode.

And that is exactly why it is mislabeled peak detection, which works with single shot acquisitions.

Quote
Attached are two images of my DS1102E's probe compensation waveform captured in single shot mode and zoomed in. Displayed as dots and vectors.

Admittedly the way it's presented might not match other scopes. Having the two lines, one that links the max values and the other that links the min values, might be better than having one line that alternates between max/min values but that's a presentation issue.

That does not show anything.  A common test is to use a slow time/div and short record length to deliberately cause aliasing, and then switch to peak detection.  On the DS1052D/E series this would have to be done with a single shot acquisition to prevent envelope detection since there is no way to limit the number of envelopes to 1 as on the Tektronix 2440 series.  Other Tektronix DSOs had separate peak detection and envelope detection modes but for some reason they were combined on the 2440 series.  The lack of a way to set that is another clue that the DS1052D/E series does not implement peak detection.

If you have a pulse generator which can produce narrow variable width pulses, then you can quantitatively test how peak detection is occurring although DSOs now tend to have high enough sample rates that this is not practical beyond existence.  When I ran this test on the Tektronis 2230 which only has peak detection to 100 nanoseconds, it really did detect every pulse of 100 nanoseconds or longer, and miss shorter pulses, which was doubly interesting because the 2230 uses an analog channel switch.

Actually I don't think the DS1052 lacks peak detect. One of my customers has one (without digital channels) and I recall it being able to do peak detect. The problem is that Asian oscilloscope brands (most notably the Japanese) mis-label peak detect as envelope mode.

The DS1052D/E series mislabels envelope mode as peak detection.

If peak detection is supported, then envelope mode should use it, but not the reverse.

The part that was incorrect was telling somebody with limited budget in a country where test gear cost a fortune that they can't possibly buy a DS1052E because it doesn't have a feature they might never need.

Then that is all you had to say rather than starting in with the personal insults.

Quote
Edit: I don't have a DS1052E in front of me but the manual says it has it, in section 2-56:

https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/Users+Guide+DS1000E.pdf

I am aware of the manual.  It lies.  Rigol lied, and did so repeatedly when I contacted them.  Is that so surprising?

Quote
Peak  Detect Acquisition: Peak  Detect  mode  captures  the  maximum  and minimum  values  of  a  signal.  Finds  highest  and  lowest  record  points  over  many acquisitions.

"over many acquisitions" should tell you something.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 04:20:09 am by David Hess »
 

Offline Shiv

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2020, 09:10:55 am »
I went through analogs.
Thats fun, because you can repair it almost eternally...

468 was my first one... get it for free and sell it for 400 euros 3 months ago... but is toooo big for home.

I would recomend something about 50-100 MHz, analog/digital... (Philips PM3375, Tek TDS310, Iwatsu oldies,...)
468 in digital is only 10 MHz, but that works well for audio signals.

There are too many of them and are usually cheap and repairable (try to find one with 1 functional channel and repair the others) ,but the problem is your country, don´t take it badly, simply I doubt there are too many tek or Philips equipment (fck politics...)


For cheap new equipment, I saw UNI-T UTD2102e but I don´t know nothing about the brand (only that I like his mini function generator), but it´s only 179 bucks for 100 MHz
 

Online nctnico

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2020, 07:13:17 pm »
My DS1102E seems to have peak mode. If envelope mode requires multiple trigger events[1] then it won't work in single shot mode.

And that is exactly why it is mislabeled peak detection, which works with single shot acquisitions.
Today I had a chance to test with a DS1102E myself and peak-detect is definitely doing peak detect and not envelope mode. However I'm not ruling out that firmware for this oscilloscope has changed over the years.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: I Need Help With Choosing a Budget Oscilloscope!
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2020, 09:18:37 pm »

Oh I doubt I could get one. The companies that import stuff only purchase from websites like Amazon and TaoBao, I don't think they would purchase from that website.

The specs are impressive and well, it's from Siglent.

How much hassle would it be for you to import the scope yourself? I don't know how burocracy works in your country and if you need to pay a lot of import tax / customs duty, but just for fun I checked shipping from my country to Iran of a 5kg package -- it would be round about 45 Euros. And I don't think there would be any legal difficulty to send a "second hand entry level" DSO your way, maybe even declared as a "present". I'm pretty sure many members of this forum (myself included) wouldn't have much problem parting with one of their "toys" for a compensation that would fit within your financial frame, including postage. And you can be pretty sure that noone around here would cheat you.

So if a second hand instrument would be okay for you, why don't you try it that way. I guess a Rigol DS1000Z should be within reach. Of course, it will only work that way if the import procedure until you finally can take it home, isn't too troublesome and expensive.
 


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