Products > Test Equipment

I pulled the trigger on a Siglent SDG-1032X. A few questions

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vpetrog:
Yes i understand it, but i was curious whether there was a feature like the old analog function gens, which had a button to isolate ground from output

tautech:

--- Quote from: vpetrog on December 07, 2016, 07:44:58 am ---Yes i understand it, but i was curious whether there was a feature like the old analog function gens, which had a button to isolate ground from output

--- End quote ---
Not on these entry level Siglent AWG's.
Only the SDG5000 series have isolated channel outputs.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=90&T=2&tid=16

VolvoBrad007:

--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 05, 2016, 05:24:02 pm ---Hopefully that can help as to what I may already have.  I have additional banana to minigrabber and alligator, any other suggestions?
(Also keep in mind that I'm a ham, so I may have 50ohm stuff here already (adapters and coax), but would still appreciate advice if certain lengths need to be used, are there oscilloscope grade adapters? coax/cables? connectors? and any other relevant information or materials needed/necessary would be super super awesome and helpful! So that I can get the most out of my learning journey :)

Also how does the HI-Z and 50ohm relate in electronics world?  I know how it relates when I'm plugging in a HI-Z microphone into my preamp or HI-Z instrument outputs.  As Z is impedance. 

--- End quote ---
Put simply high impedance measurements affect the DUT less, but all measurements affect the real value to some degree.
Some DUT measurement points are stiff, low impedance if you like and are not affected so much when measurements are taken.
Then there HF measurement issues were a Gnd (Reference) lead inflicts inductance into the measurement and either a probe Gnd spring or low-Z probes are a requirement for display of realistic waveforms.
The trick is to know what the circuit characteristics are before you connect.
There's a few clues about matching source and termination impedance early on in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/

But the real use of output selection of Hi-Z or 50 \$\Omega\$ with an AWG is for the AWG to "see or expect" what the loading is and set the correct amplitude for that load.
Yes, in some way this is confusing but we're now supplying a source and the load can be stiff (low impedance) or soft (high impedance) so the AWG's output needs to know what it's supplying.
You'll find this out when you set it to supply X volts into Hi-Z but then terminate it with 50 \$\Omega\$.  :scared:

--- End quote ---


I'm pretty sure I understand, just as my mixing board wants to "see" a certain load, and can change depending on which jacks and inputs and outputs you are using.  I will definitely check out this thread!

With ham radio, there are lengths of coax you want to avoid.  Are there any lengths you should or shouldn't be using (generally speaking) with the AWG?


--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---What is the purpose of the through 50ohm adapter that's in that kit?
Is it the same thing as a 50 ohm terminator? Or should I have these around as well?
--- End quote ---
50 \$\Omega\$ feedthroughs are the preferred termination, most are 1:1 but 10:1 attenuations are also available.
They should have a wattage rating on them and some simple maths is required to use them properly.
Unlike a 50 \$\Omega\$ channel input on a scope that invariably are 5V max so as to not open-circuit the internal termination.  :-BROKE

--- End quote ---

Right - o on the feed-thru! I shall be careful! I will check the wattage rating  :-+

Are 10:1 attenuators preferred? Or more just need one around so you're not limited in application?


--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---This may be a stupid question to ask, but I've been told and always say that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask, so here goes:  is spending 400 (well it would have been 400 if not for the sale and discount) on a signal/waveform generator excessive if my scope only costs 400?  (I'm not saying these things have a direct link, but am curious if that's just silly). Tautech did recommend I expand my budget, to get what I was asking for in my initial post. Which I'm not opposed to or against if it's a piece of test equipment I can grow into.  Not bottom of the barrel, and from a reliable, well liked and much used company by those on the EEVBlog forums, as there seems to be a ton of good people and heaps of information here.  You just have to have the time to read it all! Lol!
--- End quote ---
IME you'll update a scope before an AWG. Something like the SDG1032X that you've bought will serve you well for many years. Also consider that AWG's normally have a linear PSU to ensure good signal quality and linear PSU's generally outlast SMPS.

--- End quote ---


Good to know, I'm glad that wasn't a silly thing to do.  I can see what you're saying about needing to upgrade your scope first.  Roger on that.

I also definitely can appreciate having a linear power supply.  Good stuff, as, like you said, they generally outlast SMPS PSU's.



--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---One more stupid one, who is Siglent? Are they a decent company? I can read the about us stuff, but any opinions? Maybe where they rank in the whole scheme of things? (I'm kind of new to all this fascinating measurement technology, so again, I really appreciate any input!)

--- End quote ---
Siglent is the trading name for I think Ding Yang Technology, a number of their core people left Atten and set up on their own ~15 years ago. They spend a lot on R&D and also market a good # of their products as re-brands but they remain the OEM. Probably their largest partner is LeCroy for whom they make several products.
This vid that Dave did with their CEO will give you some little insight:
https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/

--- End quote ---


Thank you for that information, I was curious, and it seems you have answered my questions.  I also don't think people on the EEVBlog would be ranting and raving about a completely crap product.  Good to know that they spend $'s on their R&D which hopefully equates to a good product. :)

I shall definitely watch the video.  Cheers.



--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---One helpful chap mentioned that 2 channels is helpful even in simple circuits.  Could someone possibly and kindly provide another example? (I understand you can then drive two different things with two different frequencies or the same frequency, or whatever you want, but a real life example.  Not just that you can use two channels to hook up to whatever you want to, obviously lol.

--- End quote ---
You can for example trigger the second channel from the first or another part of a circuit that's been supplied with a waveform from the other channel. Handy when you're breadboarding stuff and you need to check it's working as designed/expected.
OR you can simply use one of the channels for a 200mA capable PSU. Check the datasheet.  ;)

--- End quote ---

Good information here, and that's interesting that you can use one of the channels as a 200mA capable PSU! Cool jazz!


--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---I have also heard that this can be a useful tool for learning the oscilloscope.  Any truth to the matter? Maybe some examples or links or a smoke signal? ;)

--- End quote ---
Yep, cause you set a signal type and amplitude that then is visible on the scope.( If it's terminated correctly.  ;) ) Use the scope's Autoset until you have feel for the scope then learn to drive it as most people do.
Before the days of DSO's one read waveform info off the screen using the graticules as a scale as set by the vertical input attenuation and horizontal settings, many still do. Just a glance at the amplitude is mostly enough without need for OSD measurements that in many cases just adds to on screen clutter.

You're gunna have some fun with your limited experience, but it should be fun and a good learning opportunity for you. Enjoy.  :)


--- End quote ---

It sure sounds like I'm going to have some fun with my limited experience and have more fun as it continues to grow and expand!  :-+

Thank you for confirmation on using the AWG or function generator to help to learn the DSO, and I totally know what you mean by just glancing at the graticules as a scale and taking your measurement from that.  Though some analog scopes to support readout, as mine do.  However, the plugins that I have for it don't output the readout, except for the logic analyzer plug in I have for the 7514 Tek Scope.


Wow tautech!  I really, really appreciate your super useful information that I shall be immediately putting in my brain!  Really good stuff!  I have been busy downloading XYZ's of function generators from Tek, and giving them a print so I may have a hard copy to write and take notes.  Also downloaded a bunch of different experiments/labs to do with the function generator and oscilloscope, and for now to keep it simple, in conjunction with RC circuits.  Not to mention printing out the instruction manual for the SDG1032X, all those shots of the screen use so much ink |O

This is super fascinating stuff (all of it), and I truly look forward to understanding it more and more until I understand it fully! :-+

You have truly been a great help, and I really appreciate your time in helping me to understand and as well push me in a direction of what to purchase so I don't outgrow it in the near future.  I also see that in order to play with FM and AM and PSK and FSK, for instance, for my ham radio stuff, that you need to be able to generate modulated waveforms such as those,  and some of the other units I was looking at didn't provide that. 

I am also into flashlights, and some are into their PWM (which I don't prefer as the method of dimming the led, but I digress), and I see that this also supports PWM.  Very cool stuff!  Looks like that made it an even better purchase knowing I can already learn wiith some of the things I enjoy already, and this AWG can generate those kinds of modulated signals. 

Cheers again to all, I really do appreciate it! :)

Keep it coming!

-Brad :)

PS:  I have just recieved the unit! :) I am excited to open it and give it the smell test.  I hope it smells good!  Shall be unboxing and posting some pics soon! (well it arrived earlier today, but I had stayed up all night researching and looking for good experiments and labs and tutorials to use, so I was a sleeping when it arrived, but it's here!!

Now I just need to get some more test leads and a few other bits and bobbles and I should be happy as a pig in you know what! Lol

tautech:

--- Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 07, 2016, 08:36:00 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 05, 2016, 05:24:02 pm ---Hopefully that can help as to what I may already have.  I have additional banana to minigrabber and alligator, any other suggestions?
(Also keep in mind that I'm a ham, so I may have 50ohm stuff here already (adapters and coax), but would still appreciate advice if certain lengths need to be used, are there oscilloscope grade adapters? coax/cables? connectors? and any other relevant information or materials needed/necessary would be super super awesome and helpful! So that I can get the most out of my learning journey :)

Also how does the HI-Z and 50ohm relate in electronics world?  I know how it relates when I'm plugging in a HI-Z microphone into my preamp or HI-Z instrument outputs.  As Z is impedance. 

--- End quote ---
Put simply high impedance measurements affect the DUT less, but all measurements affect the real value to some degree.
Some DUT measurement points are stiff, low impedance if you like and are not affected so much when measurements are taken.
Then there HF measurement issues were a Gnd (Reference) lead inflicts inductance into the measurement and either a probe Gnd spring or low-Z probes are a requirement for display of realistic waveforms.
The trick is to know what the circuit characteristics are before you connect.
There's a few clues about matching source and termination impedance early on in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/

But the real use of output selection of Hi-Z or 50 \$\Omega\$ with an AWG is for the AWG to "see or expect" what the loading is and set the correct amplitude for that load.
Yes, in some way this is confusing but we're now supplying a source and the load can be stiff (low impedance) or soft (high impedance) so the AWG's output needs to know what it's supplying.
You'll find this out when you set it to supply X volts into Hi-Z but then terminate it with 50 \$\Omega\$.  :scared:

--- End quote ---


I'm pretty sure I understand, just as my mixing board wants to "see" a certain load, and can change depending on which jacks and inputs and outputs you are using.  I will definitely check out this thread!

With ham radio, there are lengths of coax you want to avoid.  Are there any lengths you should or shouldn't be using (generally speaking) with the AWG?
--- End quote ---
I've not struck this as an issue at the low frequencies Arbs operate at. What's more you're using a range of frequencies and therefore correct termination will be more important. Don't get too hung up on this, it won't be a problem.


--- Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am ---
--- Quote ---What is the purpose of the through 50ohm adapter that's in that kit?
Is it the same thing as a 50 ohm terminator? Or should I have these around as well?
--- End quote ---
50 \$\Omega\$ feedthroughs are the preferred termination, most are 1:1 but 10:1 attenuations are also available.
They should have a wattage rating on them and some simple maths is required to use them properly.
Unlike a 50 \$\Omega\$ channel input on a scope that invariably are 5V max so as to not open-circuit the internal termination.  :-BROKE

--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Right - o on the feed-thru! I shall be careful! I will check the wattage rating  :-+

Are 10:1 attenuators preferred? Or more just need one around so you're not limited in application?

--- End quote ---
If you consider your previous comments on Ham stuff and use of a Tee and a 50 \$\Omega\$ termination you're effectively inserting a stub were there then might be a higher chance of reflections, but that's at higher frequencies than you'll use an AWG for.
Feed-throughs of any quality are not that cheap so for the odd time you'll want one just get a 1:1 or use a tee with a termination like most do.




--- Quote ---Wow tautech!  I really, really appreciate your super useful information that I shall be immediately putting in my brain!  Really good stuff!  I have been busy downloading XYZ's of function generators from Tek, and giving them a print so I may have a hard copy to write and take notes.  Also downloaded a bunch of different experiments/labs to do with the function generator and oscilloscope, and for now to keep it simple, in conjunction with RC circuits.  Not to mention printing out the instruction manual for the SDG1032X, all those shots of the screen use so much ink |O

This is super fascinating stuff (all of it), and I truly look forward to understanding it more and more until I understand it fully! :-+
--- End quote ---
Just a little time bashing around in the menus of your AWG should be all you need to gain a good basic understanding of its functionality and the menus are reasonably intuitive so you'll be fine once you get a handle on what it can do.


--- Quote ---You have truly been a great help, and I really appreciate your time in helping me to understand and as well push me in a direction of what to purchase so I don't outgrow it in the near future.  I also see that in order to play with FM and AM and PSK and FSK, for instance, for my ham radio stuff, that you need to be able to generate modulated waveforms such as those,  and some of the other units I was looking at didn't provide that. 

I am also into flashlights, and some are into their PWM (which I don't prefer as the method of dimming the led, but I digress), and I see that this also supports PWM.  Very cool stuff!  Looks like that made it an even better purchase knowing I can already learn with some of the things I enjoy already, and this AWG can generate those kinds of modulated signals. 
--- End quote ---
Not only do you benefit from this but other readers do.  :-+
Sure one can gain lots of knowledge from just reading the forum but specific topical questions get you to the answer/understanding much quicker.

Anyway you're most welcome and thanks for the PM expressing your gratitude.




--- Quote ---PS:  I have just recieved the unit! :) I am excited to open it and give it the smell test.  I hope it smells good!  Shall be unboxing and posting some pics soon! (well it arrived earlier today, but I had stayed up all night researching and looking for good experiments and labs and tutorials to use, so I was a sleeping when it arrived, but it's here!!

Now I just need to get some more test leads and a few other bits and bobbles and I should be happy as a pig in you know what! Lol
--- End quote ---
Pig in poo Brad.  :-DD

flash2b:

--- Quote ---If you consider your previous comments on Ham stuff and use of a Tee and a 50 \$\Omega\$ termination you're effectively inserting a stub were there then might be a higher chance of reflections, but that's at higher frequencies than you'll use an AWG for.
Feed-throughs of any quality are not that cheap so for the odd time you'll want one just get a 1:1 or use a tee with a termination like most do.

--- End quote ---



Well...... follow the link below to get 2 Feed-throughs for €6,30 and with coupon TOOLS15 additional €0,95 discount.

http://www.banggood.com/P7001-2Pcs-50-Feed-Through-Terminator-BNC-Female-Seat-50KY-Device-Q9-Adapter-p-1108649.html

That is a nice price to terminate the end of the year  !!! :-DD

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