Author Topic: IC testers, do they work?  (Read 9723 times)

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Offline RiRaRiTopic starter

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IC testers, do they work?
« on: August 07, 2023, 11:26:54 pm »
Hello. I have seen these testers for integrated circuits. Do they work and does anyone have experience with them? How simple are they to use?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0leWoW
 

Offline retiredfeline

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2023, 12:01:04 am »
What concerns me is no list of ICs programmed into the tester is given. I would not expect it to test just any IC, probably just a logic series. At least with the XGecu EPROM programmer series which also has a testing function, the list of ICs tested is listed.
 
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Online David Aurora

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2023, 12:02:10 am »
I've actually been meaning to post a thread on these myself for the past few days.

I've had one of those for years and it's 50/50, so I've been wondering if they've improved in terms of recognised parts? Or if people make new parts libraries you can update them with, etc.

Mine is pretty good at testing logic chips, so that's something. Very limited with op amps etc though, which is what I'm usually wanting to test when I whip it out.

When it does recognise a particular type it can be really handy. My normal use for it is while working on mixing consoles, I'll often be trying to quickly troubleshoot multiple channels and it can be super quick for pulling and checking a bunch of suspect parts all in one go. It's always a crapshoot though whether or not it will recognise the particular op amp in use, a lot of super common parts just show up on mine as unknown/damaged parts
 
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Offline Kim Christensen

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2023, 12:16:55 am »
If you watch the lame little video on AliExpress, near the end, you can see them scrolling though 74HC, 74LS, & CD40... So I would guess that it's pretty limited.
According to the poorly translated description:
Quote
You can test 74ch series, 74ls series, CD4000 series, HEF400 series, 4500 series, operational amplifiers, interface class chip, optocouplers, transistors automatic identification, the regulator voltage value recognition.
Built-in data model all kinds of chips more than 1,300 species, more than 420 kinds of transistor data models, covering most common devices within 24 feet, and can greatly reduce the maintenance workload, improve maintenance efficiency.
The repair wizard 9v laminated battery, the same as with ordinary multimeter battery, power consumption is quite ordinary digital multimeter. Press the enter key can boot first boot automatically perform a self-test, self-test the battery voltage is detected and displayed on the screen after the passage of more than two seconds, when the battery voltage is below 7v replace the battery, in order to ensure measurement accuracy. If there is no alarm you can start measuring work. Native AD 10 AD, the theoretical resolution of 5v voltage is 0.0048v. Not suitable for measuring high power thyristor due to the use of battery-powered. Zener value should be subject to the measured, can not only look at the nominal value. Boot the default directory is search directory. An ordinary optocoupler optocoupler test up to a dozen parameters, a simple measurement optocoupler logic relationship has not much practical significance, the machine can test the secondary optocoupler saturation voltage, for reference. Test the ordinary 4 feet optocoupler.
:-DD

This YouTube guy reviewed one which looks the same as that one. Haven't watched the entire thing. At the 10:50 mark he shows the IC list that came with it.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 12:29:37 am by Kim Christensen »
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2023, 12:33:30 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2023, 02:03:33 am »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline ledtester

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2023, 03:08:15 am »
For a tester that makes analog measurements on the outputs, have a look at the Tauntek IC tester:

http://tauntek.com/LogICTester-low-cost-logic-chip-tester.htm

It's just a pcb + pre-programmed microcontrollers. You'll have to supply some commonly available parts to build it.

List of supported devices: http://tauntek.com/ctchiplist.pdf

A blog post about it:

https://www.barbouri.com/2021/09/13/building-the-tauntek-logic-ic-tester/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 03:10:11 am by ledtester »
 
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2023, 03:16:24 am »
Most universal programmers can id and test logic ic's
 
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Offline JimKnopf

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2023, 06:08:04 am »
I bought a diy chip tester from 8bit-museum.de. It's called RCT, Retro Chip Tester

https://8bit-museum.de/sonstiges/hardware-projekte/hardware-projekte-chip-tester-english/

You can buy the PCB there and download the bom list. You have to self assemble the parts to the PCB. Firmware is under active development. Works well for a large list of IC and memory chips.

You can also programn some eproms, even very uncommon ones.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2023, 06:34:30 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.

I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.

 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2023, 06:40:43 am »
I have a few different IC testers including the ones mentioned here, they seem to work fine, obviously they all cover different IC families or only partial families, but they do detect faulty devices a lot of the time, if you are ever not sure about a device, you can test a suspect device and then a known good device and check for the same result.

The RCT version is extremely comprehensive and has new chips added frequently, the only catch is you have t build it yourself and if you want to update it you need to use a programmer.
Cheers Scott

Check out my Electronics Repair, Mailbag, or Review Videos at https://www.youtube.com/TheDefpom
 

Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2023, 07:22:50 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications. Limited leakage/pull-up/pull-down at logic pins is often required for correct circuit operation as one example of a parameter which would need to be tested to confirm a chip will work according to its specifications. An ok/identifcation from these widgets is only a cursory check of: pattern at io pins matches pattern in library.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".
 

Online David Aurora

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2023, 08:06:41 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications. Limited leakage/pull-up/pull-down at logic pins is often required for correct circuit operation as one example of a parameter which would need to be tested to confirm a chip will work according to its specifications. An ok/identifcation from these widgets is only a cursory check of: pattern at io pins matches pattern in library.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".

Nobody is actually using these for verifying specs. They are go/no testers. Almost like a diode test function on a meter- nobody is sweeping through semiconductors on a board with a diode test expecting to actually characterise things, it's a ballpark look for major issues. Same with these- if a supported chip fails, you know it's fucked and you bin it. If it passes then chances are high that it's not the droid you're looking for and you keep hunting.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2023, 10:06:45 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications. Limited leakage/pull-up/pull-down at logic pins is often required for correct circuit operation as one example of a parameter which would need to be tested to confirm a chip will work according to its specifications. An ok/identifcation from these widgets is only a cursory check of: pattern at io pins matches pattern in library.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".
Nobody is actually using these for verifying specs. They are go/no testers. Almost like a diode test function on a meter- nobody is sweeping through semiconductors on a board with a diode test expecting to actually characterise things, it's a ballpark look for major issues. Same with these- if a supported chip fails, you know it's fucked and you bin it. If it passes then chances are high that it's not the droid you're looking for and you keep hunting.
Except it's not even a go/no-go as they dont specify what has been tested. A diode test on a multimeter generates some measurements which can be directly applied to the end use (screening for matched forward voltage or checking for excessive reverse leakage are both practical on a multimeter) but a widget that says "diode*"

* probably.

Is not a test. Look at the good link above
For a tester that makes analog measurements on the outputs, have a look at the Tauntek IC tester:

http://tauntek.com/LogICTester-low-cost-logic-chip-tester.htm

It's just a pcb + pre-programmed microcontrollers. You'll have to supply some commonly available parts to build it.

List of supported devices: http://tauntek.com/ctchiplist.pdf

A blog post about it:

https://www.barbouri.com/2021/09/13/building-the-tauntek-logic-ic-tester/
A basic tester that has some limits etc, very different from a device which tells you what it thinks the chip is (identifies).
 

Online David Aurora

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2023, 10:49:00 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications. Limited leakage/pull-up/pull-down at logic pins is often required for correct circuit operation as one example of a parameter which would need to be tested to confirm a chip will work according to its specifications. An ok/identifcation from these widgets is only a cursory check of: pattern at io pins matches pattern in library.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".
Nobody is actually using these for verifying specs. They are go/no testers. Almost like a diode test function on a meter- nobody is sweeping through semiconductors on a board with a diode test expecting to actually characterise things, it's a ballpark look for major issues. Same with these- if a supported chip fails, you know it's fucked and you bin it. If it passes then chances are high that it's not the droid you're looking for and you keep hunting.
Except it's not even a go/no-go as they dont specify what has been tested. A diode test on a multimeter generates some measurements which can be directly applied to the end use (screening for matched forward voltage or checking for excessive reverse leakage are both practical on a multimeter) but a widget that says "diode*"

* probably.

Is not a test. Look at the good link above
For a tester that makes analog measurements on the outputs, have a look at the Tauntek IC tester:

http://tauntek.com/LogICTester-low-cost-logic-chip-tester.htm

It's just a pcb + pre-programmed microcontrollers. You'll have to supply some commonly available parts to build it.

List of supported devices: http://tauntek.com/ctchiplist.pdf

A blog post about it:

https://www.barbouri.com/2021/09/13/building-the-tauntek-logic-ic-tester/
A basic tester that has some limits etc, very different from a device which tells you what it thinks the chip is (identifies).

Again, you're looking at this from an overly ambitious perspective. My analogy with the diode test was precisely that when you're quickly sweeping through with one as a go/no go test you AREN'T using it to match forward voltages and so on. It's just "Is it blatantly fucked? Yes? In the bin it goes". Same with these cheap IC testers.

As a quick example of both the analogy and the actual use case- on one job today a power supply board was shutting down. I had seen the exact same fault on another unit yesterday, so the first thing I did was probe the rectifier diodes I had seen fail before and found a shorted one as expected. I don't remotely care about the precise forward voltage when using the meter for this, all I want to know is if the diodes are basically OK or not. In the case of the IC tester, earlier tonight I had a channel strip from a mixing console up on the bench. On these particular strips I've seen one particular IC kill audio on a few of them, so if one goes down now I'll routinely pull that IC and throw it in the tester. If it fails I can replace it on the spot while I'm at the studio and the channel will likely spring back to life. No need to wire up the channel with a bench supply, set up a scope, etc., if it's as simple as a bad IC I know and it's sorted in a minute.
 

Offline retiredfeline

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2023, 11:00:40 am »
 :popcorn:
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2023, 11:14:18 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".

To "identify" a chip all you need to do is look at the number printed on the top.

These devices are doing much more than that.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2023, 11:41:23 am »
Probably more correctly described as a IC identifier rather than a tester, there are no pass/fail criteria or performance measurement as would be associated with testing.
I imagine a chip has to be working for it to be identified correctly.
"working" enough to match logic patterns does not say it is working to datasheet specifications.

Dictionary definition of test vs identification matches what I wrote. Or do you want to come up with your own new definitions of "test" and "identification".
To "identify" a chip all you need to do is look at the number printed on the top.

These devices are doing much more than that.
Watch the video above, presenter said all quad input FET opamps were simply identified as "TL084". Most of those devices are not doing more than a cursory low speed functional match.

Can they cycle through some states and guess what sort of device is attached? yes. Can they cycle some states and check pass/fail against a specific pattern? yes. But thats about it.

ledtester liked out to a "fancy" example which explains the methods behind it and documents the details. You're just posting inflammatory crap.
 

Online TERRA Operative

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2023, 11:45:35 am »
I have a Retro Chip Tester Pro too and it's great.
Occasionally I find a chip that is not supported, but so far it does the job without any fuss.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2023, 11:55:12 am »
Except it's not even a go/no-go as they dont specify what has been tested. A diode test on a multimeter generates some measurements which can be directly applied to the end use (screening for matched forward voltage or checking for excessive reverse leakage are both practical on a multimeter) but a widget that says "diode*"

* probably.

Is not a test. Look at the good link above
For a tester that makes analog measurements on the outputs, have a look at the Tauntek IC tester:

http://tauntek.com/LogICTester-low-cost-logic-chip-tester.htm

It's just a pcb + pre-programmed microcontrollers. You'll have to supply some commonly available parts to build it.

List of supported devices: http://tauntek.com/ctchiplist.pdf

A blog post about it:

https://www.barbouri.com/2021/09/13/building-the-tauntek-logic-ic-tester/
A basic tester that has some limits etc, very different from a device which tells you what it thinks the chip is (identifies).
Again, you're looking at this from an overly ambitious perspective. My analogy with the diode test was precisely that when you're quickly sweeping through with one as a go/no go test you AREN'T using it to match forward voltages and so on. It's just "Is it blatantly fucked? Yes? In the bin it goes". Same with these cheap IC testers.

As a quick example of both the analogy and the actual use case- on one job today a power supply board was shutting down. I had seen the exact same fault on another unit yesterday, so the first thing I did was probe the rectifier diodes I had seen fail before and found a shorted one as expected. I don't remotely care about the precise forward voltage when using the meter for this, all I want to know is if the diodes are basically OK or not. In the case of the IC tester, earlier tonight I had a channel strip from a mixing console up on the bench. On these particular strips I've seen one particular IC kill audio on a few of them, so if one goes down now I'll routinely pull that IC and throw it in the tester. If it fails I can replace it on the spot while I'm at the studio and the channel will likely spring back to life. No need to wire up the channel with a bench supply, set up a scope, etc., if it's as simple as a bad IC I know and it's sorted in a minute.
If you are looking for shorts, why bother with diode test? Just use continuity mode and listen for beep. You framed the discussion around diode test.... which is not comparable to these automated IC "testers". I'll suggest they're much closer to continuity beepers in information content than a diode test mode.

So when you say a "tester" which model/style are you referring to? what information does it provide? is its documentation available online?
There are a range of products out there with wildly different capabilities, the device you refer to may well have much more intelligence than the example the OP is asking about. What passes as "ok" in these cheap testers doesnt always function in real circuits, thats the biggest problem as it provides a false sense of security/validation.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2023, 12:50:14 pm »
Can they cycle through some states and guess what sort of device is attached? yes. Can they cycle some states and check pass/fail against a specific pattern? yes. But thats about it.

Right, so imagine I have a box full of used 74-series logic chips to repair old arcade machines.

I pull out one that identifies as a "7400 Quad 2‑input NAND Gate" and it says "74LS00" on the back then there's a good chance it's a working chip. If it doesn't identify the chip then it gets binned and I look for another one.

ie. This device is doing some level of "testing", not just identifying chips, hence then word "tester" printed on the front of it.

Is it guaranteeing the outer limits of the datasheet specifications? No of course not, but I don't think there's any gadget for that. These are cheap, they're fast, they can save a lot of wasted time, they're testers.

(And OP can be confident they're not a scam or complete waste of money, which is what he was asking).
 
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Offline Kim Christensen

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2023, 03:34:03 pm »
So when you say a "tester" which model/style are you referring to? what information does it provide? is its documentation available online?
There are a range of products out there with wildly different capabilities, the device you refer to may well have much more intelligence than the example the OP is asking about. What passes as "ok" in these cheap testers doesnt always function in real circuits, thats the biggest problem as it provides a false sense of security/validation.

Here in the video I linked previously, you can see it fail a very basic test on a LM339 when the guy lifts a pin.

I've seen many techs be led astray with diode check. One example was a 1n4007 diode. Looked great on diode check, but as soon as a bit of current was passed through it (300mA) it's forward voltage drop would increase to 3-5V...

As long as the tech knows the limitations of the tools he's using, then it's OK. I don't think the IC checker that the OP linked is worth getting since the tests & devices are so limited. Besides, most parts I want to check are soldered in. Usually I've figured out that it's bad by how it performs in circuit before I remove it.


 
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Offline alm

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2023, 03:47:04 pm »
After reading this, if anything, I'd consider the Retro Chip Tester Pro if you're into retro computing because of its breadth in support for forms of memory, or the Tauntek tester ledtester linked to because of its more thorough analog DC tests. The Aliexpress ones don't seem worth it.
 
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Offline factory

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2023, 05:54:28 pm »
We had a old PC with a EPROM programmer built into it at work, I was not impressed by the logic IC test function, more a quick check, it could not identify between types with same pinout, with slightly different function, output type, speed etc.. The logic ICs were ex ICL and marked with in-house letters instead of the 74xx number.

David
 

Offline Someone

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Re: IC testers, do they work?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2023, 10:53:22 pm »
Is it guaranteeing the outer limits of the datasheet specifications? No of course not, but I don't think there's any gadget for that. These are cheap, they're fast, they can save a lot of wasted time, they're testers.
If they cant say what was tested then its just a black box, I don't put any trust in a low cost widget that calls its self a tester yet provides zero information on what that test is or what the pass/fail criteria are. Hence calling it more appropriate to be described an an identification device.
 


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