Products > Test Equipment

IC testers, do they work?

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David Aurora:

--- Quote from: alm on August 09, 2023, 01:12:36 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 12:19:47 am ---Not true, they definitely can test *some* op amps. On mine it's only a handful, but I keep wondering if newer firmware has added any more.

--- End quote ---
What is not true? That I don't think they have any value for testing analog ICs? Can you read my mind? I didn't say they couldn't do any test on op amps, just that I don't think it's a very useful test. Never mind other analog ICs like motor drivers or tape head amplifiers.

What do you mean it supports a handful of op amps? I can imagine doing a basic dc test for single and dual op amps, the same you can do with a breadboard, a few resistors and an LED.

But why would it need to support more than a generic single, dual and quad op amp? Is it going to test parameters that are different between a ua741, op07 or tl081? Slew rate? GBW? Offset voltage? Bias current? That would be useful for checking for counterfeit ICs, especially if they could give quantitative results. But I highly doubt the cheap IC testers are going to do those tests.

--- End quote ---

You said you didn't think these are of any value for op amps. That's what I was saying was not true, based on the fact that I have identified tonnes of bad op amps with these in seconds flat.

Of course you can test op amps with breadboards and external components, but who the hell has the kind of time on their hands to fuck around like that at work? I don't make a habit of carrying a breadboard kit to a callout.

Nobody is suggesting it can/could/would test for the finer details of things like slew rate etc. I don't know how to drive this point home any harder- these are go/no go testers, not complete measurement suites. They DON'T need to support more than standard op amp packages- if this is in response to my question about supporting a wider variety of op amps, I mean that there are some it recognises and some it doesn't (e.g. both dual op amps, same pinout, but different models). No idea about the inner workings of why that is, hence my curiosity about whether these libraries have been expanded or if the issue is the test method itself. For supported ICs though, it works consistently for me.

Someone:

--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:13:04 am ---
--- Quote from: alm on August 09, 2023, 01:12:36 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 12:19:47 am ---Not true, they definitely can test *some* op amps. On mine it's only a handful, but I keep wondering if newer firmware has added any more.

--- End quote ---
What is not true? That I don't think they have any value for testing analog ICs? Can you read my mind? I didn't say they couldn't do any test on op amps, just that I don't think it's a very useful test. Never mind other analog ICs like motor drivers or tape head amplifiers.

What do you mean it supports a handful of op amps? I can imagine doing a basic dc test for single and dual op amps, the same you can do with a breadboard, a few resistors and an LED.

But why would it need to support more than a generic single, dual and quad op amp? Is it going to test parameters that are different between a ua741, op07 or tl081? Slew rate? GBW? Offset voltage? Bias current? That would be useful for checking for counterfeit ICs, especially if they could give quantitative results. But I highly doubt the cheap IC testers are going to do those tests.

--- End quote ---
You said you didn't think these are of any value for op amps. That's what I was saying was not true, based on the fact that I have identified tonnes of bad op amps with these in seconds flat.
--- End quote ---
You believe that, and we don't. It's some arbitrary distinction of what you want as the threshold for "works" and what we want as the threshold. Rather than saying we're wrong (because we're not) why not explain your reasons rather than just attacking what we say as if its incorrect (which you cannot seem to build an argument to support).

Real simple, if you think it is a good test, what is it testing?
If you don't know what it is testing I say it is a bad test, and given it returns only a binary result barely able to be called a test.


--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:06:13 am ---Those cheap 3 terminal multifunction testers that do LCR/transistors/etc. I use one all the time for checking go/no go status, checking pinouts, etc. It doesn't test under real world conditions, I don't know or care what exactly the test method is, and I don't trust or care about the particular measurement numbers it spits out. If those details matter I have dedicated, proper equipment for detailed measurements, but it's very rarely needed in practice. In most cases the 5 second test on the $10 tester tells me what I need to know in the moment and I can get on with the job.
--- End quote ---
I feel the 3 terminal testers are vastly more useful and powerful as (the ones I have used) return some parameters that the user can make judgements from and allow insight into what the pass/fail criteria is. Just as some IC testers do, but not the one the OP asked about, which I say is generally a waste of time as you have no idea what it is claiming.

DaleWentz:
I have built the Tauntek tester and it works great for logic chips, 7400, 4000 cmos etc. I would replace it if something happened to it, as its useful to me in my lab. That being said, I enjoy working on 70 and 80is test equipment that used those types of chips. For OpAmps I have scratch built a few versions of the testers offered by night fire electronics, and they are good go/no go testers. All of this just speeds up testing of failed chips, none of them stress test the parts to their limits, that is just not what they are designed to do.

David Aurora:

--- Quote from: Someone on August 09, 2023, 02:37:40 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:13:04 am ---
--- Quote from: alm on August 09, 2023, 01:12:36 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 12:19:47 am ---Not true, they definitely can test *some* op amps. On mine it's only a handful, but I keep wondering if newer firmware has added any more.

--- End quote ---
What is not true? That I don't think they have any value for testing analog ICs? Can you read my mind? I didn't say they couldn't do any test on op amps, just that I don't think it's a very useful test. Never mind other analog ICs like motor drivers or tape head amplifiers.

What do you mean it supports a handful of op amps? I can imagine doing a basic dc test for single and dual op amps, the same you can do with a breadboard, a few resistors and an LED.

But why would it need to support more than a generic single, dual and quad op amp? Is it going to test parameters that are different between a ua741, op07 or tl081? Slew rate? GBW? Offset voltage? Bias current? That would be useful for checking for counterfeit ICs, especially if they could give quantitative results. But I highly doubt the cheap IC testers are going to do those tests.

--- End quote ---
You said you didn't think these are of any value for op amps. That's what I was saying was not true, based on the fact that I have identified tonnes of bad op amps with these in seconds flat.
--- End quote ---
You believe that, and we don't. It's some arbitrary distinction of what you want as the threshold for "works" and what we want as the threshold. Rather than saying we're wrong (because we're not) why not explain your reasons rather than just attacking what we say as if its incorrect (which you cannot seem to build an argument to support).

Real simple, if you think it is a good test, what is it testing?
If you don't know what it is testing I say it is a bad test, and given it returns only a binary result barely able to be called a test.


--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:06:13 am ---Those cheap 3 terminal multifunction testers that do LCR/transistors/etc. I use one all the time for checking go/no go status, checking pinouts, etc. It doesn't test under real world conditions, I don't know or care what exactly the test method is, and I don't trust or care about the particular measurement numbers it spits out. If those details matter I have dedicated, proper equipment for detailed measurements, but it's very rarely needed in practice. In most cases the 5 second test on the $10 tester tells me what I need to know in the moment and I can get on with the job.
--- End quote ---
I feel the 3 terminal testers are vastly more useful and powerful as (the ones I have used) return some parameters that the user can make judgements from and allow insight into what the pass/fail criteria is. Just as some IC testers do, but not the one the OP asked about, which I say is generally a waste of time as you have no idea what it is claiming.

--- End quote ---


Huuuuuge armchair expert vibes going on here.

I don't care if you "believe" these aren't of any value for troubleshooting, given that I make a living troubleshooting electronics and these have found a place in my toolkit.

You keep looping back to the testing parameters over and over again, despite the fact that absolutely nobody is using these for characterising devices. I can't tell if you're illiterate, inexperienced or just trolling here.

Have you actually used one of these and had issues with results, or is your issue here all in your head?

Someone:

--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 03:49:30 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on August 09, 2023, 02:37:40 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:13:04 am ---
--- Quote from: alm on August 09, 2023, 01:12:36 am ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 12:19:47 am ---Not true, they definitely can test *some* op amps. On mine it's only a handful, but I keep wondering if newer firmware has added any more.

--- End quote ---
What is not true? That I don't think they have any value for testing analog ICs? Can you read my mind? I didn't say they couldn't do any test on op amps, just that I don't think it's a very useful test. Never mind other analog ICs like motor drivers or tape head amplifiers.

What do you mean it supports a handful of op amps? I can imagine doing a basic dc test for single and dual op amps, the same you can do with a breadboard, a few resistors and an LED.

But why would it need to support more than a generic single, dual and quad op amp? Is it going to test parameters that are different between a ua741, op07 or tl081? Slew rate? GBW? Offset voltage? Bias current? That would be useful for checking for counterfeit ICs, especially if they could give quantitative results. But I highly doubt the cheap IC testers are going to do those tests.

--- End quote ---
You said you didn't think these are of any value for op amps. That's what I was saying was not true, based on the fact that I have identified tonnes of bad op amps with these in seconds flat.
--- End quote ---
You believe that, and we don't. It's some arbitrary distinction of what you want as the threshold for "works" and what we want as the threshold. Rather than saying we're wrong (because we're not) why not explain your reasons rather than just attacking what we say as if its incorrect (which you cannot seem to build an argument to support).

Real simple, if you think it is a good test, what is it testing?
If you don't know what it is testing I say it is a bad test, and given it returns only a binary result barely able to be called a test.


--- Quote from: David Aurora on August 09, 2023, 02:06:13 am ---Those cheap 3 terminal multifunction testers that do LCR/transistors/etc. I use one all the time for checking go/no go status, checking pinouts, etc. It doesn't test under real world conditions, I don't know or care what exactly the test method is, and I don't trust or care about the particular measurement numbers it spits out. If those details matter I have dedicated, proper equipment for detailed measurements, but it's very rarely needed in practice. In most cases the 5 second test on the $10 tester tells me what I need to know in the moment and I can get on with the job.
--- End quote ---
I feel the 3 terminal testers are vastly more useful and powerful as (the ones I have used) return some parameters that the user can make judgements from and allow insight into what the pass/fail criteria is. Just as some IC testers do, but not the one the OP asked about, which I say is generally a waste of time as you have no idea what it is claiming.

--- End quote ---
Huuuuuge armchair expert vibes going on here.

I don't care if you "believe" these aren't of any value for troubleshooting, given that I make a living troubleshooting electronics and these have found a place in my toolkit.

You keep looping back to the testing parameters over and over again, despite the fact that absolutely nobody is using these for characterising devices. I can't tell if you're illiterate, inexperienced or just trolling here.

Have you actually used one of these and had issues with results, or is your issue here all in your head?
--- End quote ---
You say you trust it but cannot say what it does? Great, leave it at that. Why keep coming back in combative argumentative mode?

If a product can not tell me what it is doing (and has no specifications) I treat that as a toy and value it accordingly, that is what I keep communicating and you keep coming back with more disagreement. You value it differently, both points of view have been put forward and I'm not arguing against your opinion of that. I'm pointing out your arguments against my posts are baseless, and continue to be so.

If I want to know if a part is working I'll test it in representative conditions, not some undefined mode. Have I debugged and fixed equipment in the field (away from a workshop or lab) ? sure have, and would not place any value in the cheap toy that the OP was asking about. You see that value judgement differently which is ok, but you seem to think it is ok to keep coming back and arguing that I cannot have such an opinion (and failing to explain or back up your claims that others opinions are wrong, just because you disagree does not mean it is wrong).

From my point of view you do care (keep coming back and choosing to quote specific comments + reply to them), and are unable to engage in basic discussion (as you simply dismiss other viewpoints without any basis and ignore direct questions).

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