Author Topic: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?  (Read 113508 times)

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Offline pascal_sweden

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I wanted to check why you still would want to buy Fluke, if Brymen is cheaper and as good.

Would it be because you have worked with Fluke many years, and want to stay with your brand?
Nostalgic reasons?

Or do you prefer American products over products made in Taiwan?

Would you stay with Fluke, as price is not an issue, because your employer pays the bill?

What other reasons?

Let the discussion round begin! Brymen versus Fluke: 1-0 to start with :)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 04:42:39 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline Muxr

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Fuke has a better build quality and better resale value. Also you can't get a Brymen in the US through official channels. I got my 87-V brand new off Ebay for $275 2 weeks ago. So it was also cheaper than Brymen.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 04:49:02 pm by Muxr »
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Because Brymen offers:
-No waterproof multimeter
-No shockproof multimeter
-No gasproof multimeter

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/m2en/digital-multimeters/Specialty-Multimeters/Fluke-28-II-Ex-Intrinsically-Safe-True-rms-Digital-Multimeter.htm?PID=74148
Quote
Now there’s one intrinsically safe digital multimeter (DMM) you can use in IIC (gas), in Zone 1 and 2 and IIIC (dust), Zone 21 and 22. Whether you work in petroleum, chemical, or pharmaceutical environments, all the test and troubleshooting power you need is packed into the most rugged intrinsically safe (IS) DMM Fluke has ever built. The Fluke 28 II Ex is also waterproof, dust-proof and drop-proof. You’ll be equipped to handle any situation, inside and outside of hazardous zones, without compromising compliance or measurement performance.
The Brymen high end multimeters have quite a large display, that is not shockproof. No Brymen multimeter will withstand this.

Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Rolo

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Don`t expect to buy a new meter soon because my Fluke 175 is still performing well. So...would I buy Fluke again ? Yes if funds are no issue.
 

Offline Lightages

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Fluke has a long standing reputation of great build quality and reliability. Fluke also has a "lifetime" warranty on most of its multimeters whereas Brymen only offers one year. Greenlee gives lifetime on their re-badged Brymens but that is not Brymen directly. Fluke also offers ruggedized models as has already been mentioned. It is is also arguable that Brymen makes as good a quality meter as Fluke in some people's eyes.

So there are some real reasons and some psychological reasons people buy Fluke instead of Brymen. If I was going to buy a meter for a company and it was my reputation on the line I would buy a Fluke, that is before I had experience with Brymen.

 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Fluke really thinks about the every day adventures that the average electrician is confronted with :)

3 meters drop on concrete, 1 meter under water, Canyon trip, being frozen down to -15 degrees, 6 meters drop, 12 meters drop, 30 meters drop, being thrown from a car at 60 km/h.

Wow! Seems like Brymen didn't do their homework about every day adventures in the US :)



 

Offline dom0

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I guess you never saw how people in the field/industry treat the gear...
,
 

Online Ice-Tea

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Fluke has a pretty much spotless track record. And while the price is a bit higher, it really isn't that much higher. From a companies point of view: if paying an additional 50 or 100€ saves your employee 2 hours worth of work over a period of 30 years then that's money well spent.

With a Fluke you don't need to worry about "could it be the DMM" if you're troubleshooting. That's not a badge Brymen has deserved yet.

I'd also like to point out that stating "Brymen is cheaper and as good" and "Brymen - Fluke 1-0" is a bit premature and doesn't exactly help to get a good discussion going. It's like yelling "Justin Bieber is the best, that's just a fact!" and then asking for a discussion about why anyone else could be stupid enough to think The Beatles might be considered for the "The Best" spot.

EDIT: Also: a 3m concrete drop would seem more likely than you think it is...
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Offline Armxnian

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Fuke has a better build quality and better resale value. Also you can't get a Brymen in the US through official channels. I got my 87-V brand new off Ebay for $275 2 weeks ago. So it was also cheaper than Brymen.

The retail price of the 87v is $300-350. Doesn't matter what you got it for on eBay using buy it now when talking about regular price.

Also the bm869 is $230. http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/

Because Brymen offers:
-No waterproof multimeter
-No shockproof multimeter
-No gasproof multimeter

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/m2en/digital-multimeters/Specialty-Multimeters/Fluke-28-II-Ex-Intrinsically-Safe-True-rms-Digital-Multimeter.htm?PID=74148
Quote
Now there’s one intrinsically safe digital multimeter (DMM) you can use in IIC (gas), in Zone 1 and 2 and IIIC (dust), Zone 21 and 22. Whether you work in petroleum, chemical, or pharmaceutical environments, all the test and troubleshooting power you need is packed into the most rugged intrinsically safe (IS) DMM Fluke has ever built. The Fluke 28 II Ex is also waterproof, dust-proof and drop-proof. You’ll be equipped to handle any situation, inside and outside of hazardous zones, without compromising compliance or measurement performance.
The Brymen high end multimeters have quite a large display, that is not shockproof. No Brymen multimeter will withstand this.


Dave did that as a fun test...

Also the Fluke 28 II Ex was recalled a while back. Just because your meter says Fluke it doesn't mean you're safe from: "conductive dust may cause a short circuit that could ignite a dust explosive atmosphere surrounding the unit, potentially resulting in serious injury or death."
http://en-us.fluke.com/customer-service/safety-notices/fluke-28-ii-ex-digital-multimeter-recall.html
 

Offline Fungus

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I wanted to check why you still would want to buy Fluke, if Brymen is cheaper and as good.
Why do people buy luxury cars when a high-end Ford is just as good?

 

Offline Smith

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I trust every Fluke at work, and at home. Cant say that about Brymen. We have Flukes of about 30 year old that still work perfectly. They get dropped, overloaded, zapped with several kilovolts and still stay within spec.
Trying is the first step towards failure
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Okey, I understand that the price delta is not a world apart... good to know.

But what about the delta in features/specs? Does the 87V have the same or better specs than the Brymen 869s?

I understand that Fluke is present in this business for many years. But it should be noted that sometimes newcomers can outperform old rookies.

Just to name a few examples in the electronics industry: Sega and Nintendo were doing consoles for 20 years, and then out of the blue comes Sony and outperforms them.

What about Motorola and Nokia Siemens Networks? These are old rookies in telecommunication equipment, and today Huawei, (yes Chinese) has wiped Motorola and Nokia Siemens Networks completely from the map.

Newcomers look at the design from a different perspective, and don't have the high-self esteem attitude that sometimes can kill entire multinationals, because they are getting too relaxed, even to the point where they become lazy. Really a shame that this can happen, but it is a reality unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing the info about the Fluke product recall. This actually confirms that Fluke really cares about its customers. I admit that Brymen would never initiate a voluntary product recall like this.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 07:51:21 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Online Howardlong

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"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".
 

Offline _Wim_

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The retail price of the 87v is $300-350. Doesn't matter what you got it for on eBay using buy it now when talking about regular price.

Also the bm869 is $230. http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/


I agree on the around 200€ for the Brymen, but here in Europe it as far as I know not possible to buy a Fluke 87 V for less then 500€, so that is a big price gap...
 
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Offline Armxnian

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Okey, I understand that the price delta is not a world apart... good to know.

But what about the delta in features/specs? Does the 87V have the same or better specs than the Brymen 869s?

Thanks for sharing the info about the Fluke product recall. This actually confirms that Fluke really cares about its customers. I admit that Brymen would never initiate a voluntary product recall like this.

Fluke would be the more responsible, but you can't say Brymen wouldn't do what is ethically correct.

The brymen has better specs for the majority of the categories and is CAT IV 1000V rated. I'm sure it meets the spec, but not sure if the UL listing confirms it. The 87v is based on a decade old design, it seems Fluke is currently investing their profits in the thermal imaging market to compete with Flir. The successor is the 287/289 but they cost more so it's not really a replacement. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Both have specs that are good. If your job requires absolute precision then you're not going to debate the 87v and BM869, you're going to order an 8 1/2 digit Agilent  :-DMM
 
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Offline pascal_sweden

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I believe that I read somewhere that Brymen was the first company in the world to get the CAT IV rating. This confirms that they are ambitious players. Their PCB design is pretty clean as well. Giant leaps better than Vichy :)
 

Offline Muxr

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Fuke has a better build quality and better resale value. Also you can't get a Brymen in the US through official channels. I got my 87-V brand new off Ebay for $275 2 weeks ago. So it was also cheaper than Brymen.

The retail price of the 87v is $300-350. Doesn't matter what you got it for on eBay using buy it now when talking about regular price.
The guy I bought mine from sold 6 brand new 87-Vs on Ebay for $275. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191569718741?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  I checked my serial and they are the latest revision too.

If I need to use Ebay to buy a Brymen I will check Ebay for Fluke deals, it's only fair.

The top Brymen listing for 869 is $309 (19 of them sold) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e0a2bf63

My point is, you can get a 87-V for about the same or less money if you shop around (also I don't have to wait for it to ship from China). If I am going to spend close to what Fluke costs might as well get the real thing, since I think it's a better meter. Even at $350 it's still a better deal since you get it in 3 days as opposed to waiting on the slow boat from China.

Fluke is a no brainer really unless you have something specific Brymen offers that you need.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:48:28 pm by Muxr »
 

Offline Armxnian

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Fuke has a better build quality and better resale value. Also you can't get a Brymen in the US through official channels. I got my 87-V brand new off Ebay for $275 2 weeks ago. So it was also cheaper than Brymen.

The retail price of the 87v is $300-350. Doesn't matter what you got it for on eBay using buy it now when talking about regular price.
The guy I bought mine from sold 6 brand new 87-Vs on Ebay for $275. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191569718741?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  I checked my serial and they are the latest revision too.

If I need to use Ebay to buy a Brymen I will check Ebay for Fluke deals, it's only fair.

The top Brymen listing for 869 is $309 (19 of them sold) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e0a2bf63

My point is, you can get a 87-V for about the same or less money if you shop around (also I don't have to wait for it to ship from China). If I am going to spend close to what Fluke costs might as well get the real thing, since I think it's a better meter. Even at $350 it's still a better deal since you get it in 3 days as opposed to waiting on the slow boat from China.

Fluke is a no brainer really unless you have something specific Brymen offers that you need.

6 meters isn't enough stock to conclude that the 87v's street price is now $275. It costs $356 on Amazon, $347 on Tequipment. Once the listings on eBay are finished, the price is what actual retailers sell it for.

You don't need to use eBay to buy a Brymen. I linked a retailer that has it for $230, ships to the the U.S, and regularly gets more in stock.

So no, you can't get an 87v for the same price as a BM869. It costs $100 more if you're in the U.S, and as another member said, is more expensive in Europe.

Go ahead and spend more if you think it's a better meter. The specs tell a different story. "Track record" is a horrible justification to get the 87v. The 87 lineup has been out for 20 years. The BM869 has been out for two. You can't have a 20 year track record with an item that has existed for 2 years. If everyone bought the unit with the "proven" track record, no new items would ever exist. The multimeter itself has been out for half a century. They are all based on the same fundamental principles. It is not a new product. You can tell with 95% certainty how long a meter will last by looking at the build quality and schematics, which many have done for the 869, including Dave. Fluke has been selling most of their lineup solely on their name. There hasn't been much innovation, most likely because there is a greater margin of profit elsewhere, like Thermal Imaging devices as I mentioned before. If Fluke releases an 87VI with specs that match current meters, then I'll gladly give them the $350 they want. You don't get a reputation like Fluke or Agilent by putting out products that are simply built well. They have to be built well and perform better than all the cheaper brands.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 09:07:37 pm by Armxnian »
 
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Offline Muxr

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I'd rather not buy gear off some shady website. I couldn't even check what the shipping would be, their SSL cert is not trusted by Chrome (see attachment). Ebay at least has buyer protection.

I think 87-V is a better meter. Specs aren't everything and they shouldn't be blindly trusted.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Let's throw in a nice picture of the Brymen BM869s and an overview of the features to make the Fluke rookies jealous about the Brymen pioneers :)

« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 09:18:11 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline Armxnian

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I'd rather not buy gear off some shady website. I couldn't even check what the shipping would be, their SSL cert is not trusted by Chrome (see attachment). Ebay at least has buyer protection.

I think 87-V is a better meter. Specs aren't everything and they shouldn't be blindly trusted.

Many members have had good experiences with TME, I think Lightages had a problem though, but was eventually resolved. Anyway, can you tell me why the 87v is the better meter? I'm in the market for a handheld DMM but am waiting for the euro to further drop against the dollar to buy an 869. I don't have either, so I go based on specs and multiple videos/posts confirm the specs and praise build quality. Track record alone is a poor reason.
 

Offline Muxr

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I'd rather not buy gear off some shady website. I couldn't even check what the shipping would be, their SSL cert is not trusted by Chrome (see attachment). Ebay at least has buyer protection.

I think 87-V is a better meter. Specs aren't everything and they shouldn't be blindly trusted.

Many members have had good experiences with TME, I think Lightages had a problem though, but was eventually resolved. Anyway, can you tell me why the 87v is the better meter? I'm in the market for a handheld DMM but am waiting for the euro to further drop against the dollar to buy an 869. I don't have either, so I go based on specs and multiple videos/posts confirm the specs and praise build quality. Track record alone is a poor reason.
It's widely considered one of the best handheld meters ever built, for a good reason. The build quality is top notch, great protection, quality control, the ergonomics are great, fast operation, great accuracy, fastest continuity check buzzer speed, great specs and reputation to stay in spec even after being abused.

No brand has a better reputation than Fluke in terms of handheld DMMs, and 87-V is the iterative pinnacle of their half a century long leadership in the field. This is why Fluke has no qualms with offering lifetime warranty on it, as opposed to Brymen's 1 year for example.

I think Brymen has some great meters, and if you're looking for a specific feature Fluke doesn't offer they might serve you better, but no one builds a meter quite like Fluke.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 09:54:53 pm by Muxr »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Good point about the warranty.

If Brymen is really serious about their product quality, they might want to consider to extend the warranty.

I wonder how their 1 year warranty would work out in Norway if they sell it through an official distributor. Note that Norway is not part of the European Union, and requires 5 year warranty on all consumer products :) Yes, all consumer products. That's why I bought my new vacuum cleaner in Norway instead of Germany. I usually buy abroad, as prices tend to be high in Norway, but sometimes you can score good deals at the retailers, and then the price is the same or even lower than in Germany or Belgium, plus you get the benefit of 5 years warranty, imposed by the consumer laws in the Norwegian Kingdom :)

 

Offline Electro Fan

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As long as we're talking Fluke and Brymen, anyone want to weigh-in with any experience with, or thoughts on, the Fluke 115 vs. the Brymen 257s?  Both about the same size but the Brymen is spec'd to be 210g lighter?  Brymen seems to be equivalent or wins on most specs.  Fluke is about $10 more ($145 vs $135).

Fluke 115
167x84x46mm, 550g

http://en-us.fluke.com/products/digital-multimeters/fluke-115-digital-multimeter.html#overview
http://en-us.fluke.com/products/digital-multimeters/fluke-115-digital-multimeter.html#techspecs

Brymen 257 (From Brymen's site; specs seem to be from 257, not 257s)
161x80x50mm, 340g?

http://brymen.com/product-html/cata250/Bm250L3.htm
http://brymen.com/product-html/cata250/Bm250L2.htm
http://brymen.com/product-html/cata250/Bm250L4.htm
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 10:24:31 pm by Electro Fan »
 

Offline dadler

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I've had 3 excellent experiences purchasing from TME.eu. As I've stated before, TME has been able to get all 3 Brymen meters to me in ~48 hours Poland->California (choose the ~$8 DHL shipping).

I am quite happy with my BM869s, BM257s, and BM27s.

That said, my Fluke 287 (the only Fluke product I own) is clearly of higher build quality. It just is. The plastics/molding seems to be of better quality than the Brymen. The Brymen meters feel plasticky, and I really, really prefer the Fluke function selector dial. The Brymen selector dials are clunky and difficult to turn.

If you are hobbyist (like I am), I think you'll get more value for your money with a Brymen. If you are purchasing for professional use, the Fluke is going to be easier to acquire, easier to maintain/warranty, and provide a better sense of "certainty" in measurement. A Brymen may indeed be more accurate than a given Fluke, but Fluke's reputation offers a level of confidence that Brymen just cannot match.
 


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