Author Topic: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?  (Read 115954 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #175 on: August 22, 2015, 01:02:01 am »
As a side note, I had contacted Greenlee about their warranty.   They responded with "lifetime".   I tried to get some details on what this meant but they would not respond.   For me the warranty was not a big deal but the price difference really made me question it.    TME did ship the meter with their own written warranty.  Again, no big deal for me.   

The two temperature probe with difference calc. is kick ass!       

Picture showing the meter reading a 2 uv signal off my reference.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Nerull

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 624
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #176 on: August 22, 2015, 02:08:16 am »
Fluke really thinks about the every day adventures that the average electrician is confronted with :)

3 meters drop on concrete, 1 meter under water, Canyon trip, being frozen down to -15 degrees, 6 meters drop, 12 meters drop, 30 meters drop, being thrown from a car at 60 km/h.

Wow! Seems like Brymen didn't do their homework about every day adventures in the US :)

I worked at a company that made lifesaving medical devices costing thousands of dollars. These devices would come back to the service department with giant holes knocked through the cases. Some looked like they had been tied to the back of a car and driven for a few hundred miles. One came back with a bullet hole.
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #177 on: August 22, 2015, 03:17:42 am »
@joeqsmith:

I am very glad you like the Brymen. Are you going to give a wallop from your test rig? I would be very surprised if it didn't survive.
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3462
  • Country: ca
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2015, 03:43:21 am »
I worked at a company that made lifesaving medical devices costing thousands of dollars.

Body armor vests ?

 ::)
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #179 on: August 22, 2015, 02:46:30 pm »
@joeqsmith:

I am very glad you like the Brymen. Are you going to give a wallop from your test rig? I would be very surprised if it didn't survive.

Broke my $50 rule, but actually a nice meter.  Came sealed, I assume for warranty.  I opened it up anyhow and the videos don't do it justice.  The design looks good.   Imagine you don't have to pull out the circuit board to change a fuse like the 87V.   It does AC+DC like the 289.   It can measure two temperatures like the Fluke???    Looks more robust than the 87V I damaged and the document mentions the 12KV 50us surge.     I think you could be right.  It may pass the same test I put the 101 through but that pulse is higher voltage and double the width.     

If TechnologyCatalyst decides to run the meters he reviewed, I plan to run it along with them.   If I had another 87V, I would toss it in there as well as I plan to make a new generator that will allow me to automate some of the testing.    The output will be programmable so I can go back and repeat a test.    Because of this we were unable to see how the Fluke 87V and the UNI-T 139 really compared with the other meters, only that they were not as robust as what I was testing to at the time.      Here's his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYVMnw_W7-Rq-yJk80vprug/videos
 
Shorting the inputs, I measure 45dBm.  So I was pretty close to the limit.   I have attached some resistance measurements with it.   My home made high voltage probe is 200 Meg made with 1% 10W MOX parts.   This is outside the range of the resistance range, so the picture shows conductance (1/Gohm) or 1/0.2G or 5.0nS.   If interested, the probe can be seen here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teledyne-lecroy-waverunner-64xi/75/

Really not seeing a down side to the meter yet but it's only been a day.     
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #180 on: August 23, 2015, 05:34:23 pm »
Used the meter all of yesterday.  There are a lot of features in each setting of the dial.  It can take a few button presses to get what you want.   This would normally be something that would bother me but with them storing the settings, it really enhances the meter.   It's almost like you can customize how you use the meter.    I really like the interface.   

So what's the downside IMO?

Hold, what's the point?   Rec works good.  I like that you can scroll through the settings.  It's not the fastest.  Using a 10Vp-p 1Hz pulse with a 30% DC (300ms) is not long enough to get the meter to detect the peak.  However, then there is Crest!  They spec it at 1ms but my meter can detect the peak on a 840us pulse.   Down side, you can't see what the input signal is doing.  The second display and bar graph won't help.  All you can do it turn off Crest and loose your data.  Why it does not scroll like Rec to see the input, I assume is because it is so fast.   Then again, I do own a scope.   I attached a picture of it in Crest mode. 

nS, Ok, so I like it can read the resistance of my high voltage probe accurately.   My old HP34401A can't even do this.   But, IMO it's like having a meter than can't do AC+DC.   Yea, you can carry a calculator to do the math but why would you?  Just give me the option to show the resistance.   

Where's the second temperature probe?  However, I am not a fan of these molded things anyway.   The nice thing is the adapters for the standard K type from Extech appear to work fine with it. 

I don't care for the probes.   Their quality looks good.  Gold plated.   They are just dull.   Not a big deal as I normally would use my own. 

I checked the continuity function against my other handhelds.  Data is attached.   I did go ahead an measure the pulse width until it stopped clicking. 

Like others have mentioned, would be nice to have a cover for the fuses but really, sure beats having to pull the circuit board out like the 87V. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Robomeds

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2015, 06:14:28 pm »
Yeah, Fluke's touch hold function is one I really like and use frequently.  I seem to recall the hold function on the Brymen based meters I've tried wasn't very good.  It's not a huge thing but it would bother me. 
 

Offline jancelot

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 133
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2015, 06:29:35 pm »
Basically Fluke is very cheap in the U.S. and Brymen expensive. On europe for example is just the opposite.

Fluke 87-V: $501.23 (europe)
Brymen BM869s: $226.49 (europe)

Somebody post the prices in the U.S. please.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 06:32:05 pm by jancelot »
 

Online Redeeman

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2015, 11:20:23 pm »
would be interesting to see brymen vs fluke 101 in your test :)
 

Online Nerull

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 624
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #184 on: August 24, 2015, 01:37:57 am »
I worked at a company that made lifesaving medical devices costing thousands of dollars.

Body armor vests ?

 ::)

Lets just say their use was often accompanied by a shout of "Clear!", at least on TV...
 

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5448
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #185 on: August 24, 2015, 04:48:41 am »
Basically Fluke is very cheap in the U.S. and Brymen expensive. On europe for example is just the opposite.

Fluke 87-V: $501.23 (europe)
Brymen BM869s: $226.49 (europe)

Somebody post the prices in the U.S. please.
Fluke 87V: $404.99 shipped (US)

The Brymen BM869s isn't officially sold with a Brymen label in the US, so it's either:
  • Order from Europe ($226.49 + shipping)
  • Get an overpriced rebadged unit, such as the Greenlee DM-860a ($356.87 shipped).
 

Offline 5ky

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #186 on: August 24, 2015, 05:35:22 am »
Basically Fluke is very cheap in the U.S. and Brymen expensive. On europe for example is just the opposite.

Fluke 87-V: $501.23 (europe)
Brymen BM869s: $226.49 (europe)

Somebody post the prices in the U.S. please.
Fluke 87V: $404.99 shipped (US)

The Brymen BM869s isn't officially sold with a Brymen label in the US, so it's either:
  • Order from Europe ($226.49 + shipping)
  • Get an overpriced rebadged unit, such as the Greenlee DM-860a ($356.87 shipped).

Holy cow they went up in price.  I paid $314 for mine a few years ago from amazon

EDIT: that was a little vague--I meant that I paid $314 for my 87V when I got it a few years ago
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #187 on: August 24, 2015, 12:04:50 pm »
would be interesting to see brymen vs fluke 101 in your test :)

I have no problems running the 101 again.  It has never been apart and is still sealed.   

I did some comparisons between it and two other Flukes against the Brymen that you may find of interest.    After owning the Brymen for a few days, I like it more than my Ex-tech which is about the same cost (if you consider the cost of the Brymen's serial interface).   

Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-4L2JarVxA&feature=youtu.be
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #188 on: August 24, 2015, 06:31:57 pm »
That was an interesting take on doing a comparison. You did test I would not have thought of doing. I look forward to seeing the BM869s take the hit from your new rig, or old!
 

Offline TheBay

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 745
  • Country: wales
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2015, 09:50:51 pm »
Where can I get a BM869 or BM867, or even a rebadged version in the UK. I've been using a Fluke 77 Series II for years. I think I need an upgrade :)
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #190 on: August 24, 2015, 10:21:07 pm »
I know you are asking for something in the UK, but as Poland ships to the UK and their prices are really good I suggest you just get it from TME:
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #191 on: August 25, 2015, 12:53:09 am »
That was an interesting take on doing a comparison. You did test I would not have thought of doing. I look forward to seeing the BM869s take the hit from your new rig, or old!

Did you want to just measure some resistors and voltages and call it good?   Or just see if it spins on the table when I attempt to turn the dial?   :-DD    I figured I would show some of the modes that are normally overlooked.   To be fair to the 87V,  it was brought to my attention that is does have a crest feature that I was not aware of.   Looking at the manual, it should have easily detected a shorter pulse than the Brymen. 

I have started to look at the design of a new generator.  If I build it, I'm planning to stay in that max 20Jish range.   Just enough to stress the protection circuits.    You were going to design your own.  How is that coming along?     I would be interested in seeing your open and shorted output waveforms.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #192 on: August 25, 2015, 12:56:09 am »
Oh, that pulse tester is in the future, if I can get to it. I have some other things to get done first.
 

Offline Armxnian

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 214
  • Country: us
  • Computer Engineering Student
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #193 on: August 25, 2015, 01:04:57 am »
Nice video Joe. What frequency did you use for the pulse width test?
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #194 on: August 25, 2015, 01:41:16 am »
Nice video Joe. What frequency did you use for the pulse width test?

Glad you enjoyed it.  When I ran the min/max, crest test I was using 2Hz with a 2ms pulse.   The 87V should work to 250us according to the manual for a repeating waveform  but I am not sure if they gave a maximum period.   800us was about the limit of my Brymen.   Both very impressive IMO for a hand held meters.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Wytnucls

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2836
  • Country: be
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #195 on: August 25, 2015, 01:49:52 am »
The 'cheap' UNI-T 71D can detect a repetitive 10uS peak.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #196 on: August 25, 2015, 02:27:04 am »
The 'cheap' UNI-T 71D can detect a repetitive 10uS peak.

I tried to find this in the manual but the only time they mention is the update rate.     :-//   Will it give you both the min and max with this pulse width?
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Wytnucls

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2836
  • Country: be
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #197 on: August 25, 2015, 03:22:19 am »
I can't remember where I found the Peak Hold details. Supposed to be 10uS minimum, with an accuracy of 1.2% of range + 25 digits.

Edit: Found the info again: Cyrustek ES51966 datasheet: (Taiwan patent 476418)



Here is the test to confirm it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-ut71d-review/30/

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:09:05 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5714
  • Country: us
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #198 on: August 25, 2015, 04:11:03 am »
Damn impressive!   Tried 40us at 50Hz, 3V peak.    With your UNI-T, you almost don't need a scope.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline naughtilus

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: mk
  • If it ain't broke, fix it anyway.
Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #199 on: August 25, 2015, 04:20:25 am »
When I google up Fluke, I get photos like this one with the 87 IV:



 :-+

When I google up Brymen, I get photos of Kiriakos testing temperature of his kettle with the BM869:



 :palm:
...or is it?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf