Author Topic: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?  (Read 116033 times)

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Offline mos6502

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #225 on: February 27, 2016, 07:47:01 pm »
Why would you bother to measure the impedance of a DE-5000? It is not a passive device. It is a pointless and meaningless measurement.

Huh? I used the DE-5000 to measure the impedance of the 87V's millivolt range.

Of course the DCR measurement is the most relevant. But the ESR at varying frequencies could be interesting to know ... maybe.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #226 on: February 27, 2016, 07:53:58 pm »
Sorry, misread the post!  |O
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #227 on: February 27, 2016, 07:54:57 pm »
An insulation meter is needed to measure it properly. Something like a Gossen 27I which can measure up to 3GOhm at 500V. The Fluke's impedance should be around 1GOhm or higher.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 07:57:53 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline mos6502

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #228 on: February 27, 2016, 08:08:49 pm »
Sorry, misread the post!  |O

No worries  :)

An insulation meter is needed to measure it properly. Something like a Gossen 27I which can measure up to 3GOhm at 500V. The Fluke's impedance should be around 1GOhm or higher.

1 Gohm? That's insane. What are the practical applications for this?

EDIT: Found this:

"Yes, normal meters have a 10Mohm resistor on the input. One ones with "HI-Z"
mode remove this resistor and rely just on the input impedance of the FET
gate and other circuitry which is there. This value varies a *lot* which is
why they typically don't specify it, they just call it "high impedance"
mode. E.g. Fluke do not specify the value on their 87 meter, not even a
minimum (BTW, hold the Hz button when you power-up to get this mode).

When you need this mode, the input impedance can never be high enough! e.g.
when measuring very high impedance circuitry (you can buy Gohm range
resistors for example). Actually, even "normal impedance" stuff causes a
problem with a 10Mohm input. e.g. you can start seeing errors creep in
measuring say >10Kohm stuff.

The cheap Protek 506 & 608 are other meters that have this (not selectable)
on the mV range. They spec it at simply >1Gohm."

http://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/re-freaky-amazing-dmm.151941/

Man, that David L. Jones guy knows his stuff. He should join this forum.
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Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #229 on: February 27, 2016, 09:11:38 pm »

The cheap Protek 506 & 608 are other meters that have this (not selectable)
on the mV range. They spec it at simply >1Gohm."

http://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/re-freaky-amazing-dmm.151941/

Man, that David L. Jones guy knows his stuff. He should join this forum.

Well, not exactly cheap, when available (now discontinued) they were in the 160-350USD price range, but i really wonder about their actual accuracy.

For what is worth, i too used DE-5000 in DCR mode to measure BM869S's 500mV range input impedance reading 9.996 Mohm, while the cr@ppy  V&A VA38 DMM says 10.000 Mohm.

If i will have to take low voltage meas on high impedance circuital points i can always take in account 10MEG load value to make some compensation math, but it's not my usual work, otherwise I would have gone for a different instrument.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #230 on: February 27, 2016, 09:13:41 pm »
Dave should know what he is talking about. Keithley gives the impedance as more than 10GOhm on their datasheet for the 2000.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #231 on: February 28, 2016, 10:08:13 am »
 

Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #232 on: February 28, 2016, 03:15:52 pm »


OK, but .. what's the point in showing this video here ?

Maybe :

- the 5 times pricier Keysight 34461A is a better instrument ?
- the ohm's law applies with DMM's voltage input impedance ?
- 1 Gohm input impedance meter is better than 10 Mohm one when probing sensitive circuit ?

Anwers are quite obvious for most of us without additional help ;D

The 869S voltage input impedance is spot-on official specification number so i do not see any reason to complain about that.

Much higher input impedance is not always the best choice depending on electrical enviroment noise level, so if present it must be a switchable feature.

It's clear that for frequent high precision voltage meas on sensitive circuital points a different instrument class is needed together a real, expensive calibration service plan (wihout it all those small numbers mean nothing).

If it happens occasionally and it's not a critical task i can also use my BRYMEN and keep in account the applied 10MEG load.

With EU street pricing (180E plus VAT) the BM869S seems an excellent hand held DMM, pushing the budget to 500E or 1000E will change completely the game.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #233 on: February 28, 2016, 03:46:10 pm »
Obviously, that has eluded you, but mos6502 was wondering what such a feature was for.
Needs to be switchable? Tell that to Keithley; on their K2000, it is permanent on 10V range and below. Also on the K2002 (100GOhm!).
No expensive calibration is needed for fairly accurate voltage measurements, compared to a meter with no high impedance function, as Dave demonstrated.
Of course, this is not a critical feature for most people, but this thread is about differences between the Fluke 87V and the Brymen 869.
I certainly was surprised to find out the flagship 869 doesn't have a high Z function, when the lowly UT61 has it.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:47:15 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #234 on: February 28, 2016, 04:36:00 pm »
Of course, this is not a critical feature for most people, but this thread is about differences between the Fluke 87V and the Brymen 869.
I certainly was surprised to find out the flagship 869 doesn't have a high Z function, when the lowly UT61 has it.

Forgetting for a moment the PC interface feature lack, the only problem with Fluke 87V here in EU is clearly the high price, with that kind of budget i would start to consider a bench DMM.

Anyway i think that Youtube Martin Lorton's videos cover fairly well every aspect of this debate.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #235 on: February 28, 2016, 05:02:58 pm »
The question was why people would buy Fluke, even if it is more expensive. A high impedance mode may swing the decision for some buyers.
There are plenty of videos on the internet. It doesn't preclude a discussion on this site, answering the poster's questions.
 

Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #236 on: February 28, 2016, 06:04:24 pm »
The question was why people would buy Fluke, even if it is more expensive. A high impedance mode may swing the decision for some buyers.
There are plenty of videos on the internet. It doesn't preclude a discussion on this site, answering the poster's questions.

Sure, i agree.

What i meant is that Martin's videos, with actual side by side comparison tests with agilent and fluke DMMs, could be useful for the purpose but of course not substitutive to this discussion.

About the high impedance mode, if actually limited to 500mV range for the 87V as i can understand, imho is not going to be a so strong key point in the decisional process, a much higher voltage covering would be required to become that, at least for myself.

I'm quite sure that for companies the main answer to the OP's question is that "the employer pay the bill", while for hobbiest things vary a lot depending where one lives, here in EU the 87V is more than twice pricier than BM869S and nearby some decent bench DMMs, while in this regard US customers have a complete different offering.

My answer is : the 87V has a better construction quality and Fluke has a better reputation, if priced within 300E VAT included  (new from authorized dealer) it could have been my choice, but @ 500E i should find a very specific reason against the BRYMEN.

Prices from buy & die ebay sellers are meaningless to me, at least with this kind of goods.
 

Offline mos6502

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #237 on: February 28, 2016, 07:10:02 pm »
The killer features of the 87V:

- 250us peak min/max. It's hard to convey in words how awesome this feature is. This means the meter can replace an oscilloscope in many scenarios.
- 8V diode test. 'Nuff said. No other meter does this.
- No backlight timer. Once you turn it on, it stays on. This shows a deeper philosophy. The Fluke engineers assume that the users are people who know what they're doing, not senile old women.

Also:

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Online tooki

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #238 on: February 28, 2016, 10:18:30 pm »
Even if we leave Brymen aside, I'd still go for Agilent instead of a Fluke. They're cheaper and I have more trust in Agilent designs.
That's a bold statement.
Not saying that's a fact, that's my personal opinion, based on the fact that Agilent has a lot more experience in test and measurement. They've done so much it's silly to compare the two.
I'm surprised nobody disputed this absurd statement.

Here's the actual facts: HP was founded in 1939, and Fluke in 1949. I hardly think that 10 years constitutes "a lot more" experience when we're talking about companies both around 70 years old, both of which were test and measurement companies from the start. Both of them make outstanding gear, they've just ended up specializing in different areas over the years.

And let's not forget that the Agilent/Keysight handheld meters of today are not based on proven, old HP designs, they're the ones from Agilent's 2008 purchase of Escort, a Taiwanese maker of low-cost (but not bargain basement) meters. I assume that all the R&D of Keysight's handheld meters is still in Taiwan, though this is pure speculation on my part.

I think it's fair to say that Fluke has far more experience in making rugged handheld DMMs than today's Keysight. (Weren't there times when HP wasn't making handheld DMMs at all?)


As for why I personally bought a Fluke 87V a year ago, when my 20 year old Radio Shack meter died: I'd been lusting for a Fluke ever since I was a little kid, having seen the ads and reviews of them in Popular Electronics. Do I need a Fluke? Hell no. But I wanted it! :D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 10:50:28 pm by tooki »
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #239 on: February 28, 2016, 11:39:08 pm »
Weren't there times when HP wasn't making handheld DMMs at all?
It would seem it took the 2008 acquisition of Escort by Agilent before they ever got into the handheld DMM business, as such a product isn't mentioned on either HP's or Keysight's product timeline or company history.
 

Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #240 on: February 29, 2016, 12:34:06 am »
- 250us peak min/max. It's hard to convey in words how awesome this feature is. This means the meter can replace an oscilloscope in many scenarios.

Never a meter can replace an oscilloscope and vice versa, i unlikely would trust a multimeter for this type of measure, too many variables can distort the result.

- 8V diode test. 'Nuff said. No other meter does this.

It's a function mainly wanted by power led tinkerers for Vf binning, normally they search this for cheap, probably a small case number so most brands do not matter to implement that.
 

- No backlight timer. Once you turn it on, it stays on. This shows a deeper philosophy. The Fluke engineers assume that the users are people who know what they're doing, not senile old women.

I agree, but the definitive solution is to have both possibilities by mean of separate UI actions.

About Hi Res digit rounding, sure it's not a deal breaker, to stop the moan it's enough to leave it in hi-res mode, that works a treat for tendency monitoring like Martin shows in many other videos like




So not a defect but a killer app for BRYMEN.

The Fluke main lacks are :

- no double display
- no pc connection
- no nice price (at least in EU)

 

Offline mos6502

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #241 on: February 29, 2016, 01:57:41 am »
- 250us peak min/max. It's hard to convey in words how awesome this feature is. This means the meter can replace an oscilloscope in many scenarios.

Never a meter can replace an oscilloscope and vice versa, i unlikely would trust a multimeter for this type of measure, too many variables can distort the result.

Except the specs are absolutely clear on what that mode does and what the accuracy is. There are no random variables like with certain Asian meters. It's not a useless gimmick like on the Brymen.  ;)

Let's say you want to plug your expensive Gizmo into an unknown power supply. You know the supply delivers the correct voltage, but what happens at turn-on? Does the voltage overshoot? You hook up your Fluke 87, switch to peak min/max and turn the supply on. The Fluke records any spikes and within 2 seconds you know whether the power supply is safe to use or not.

Another example: your PC is randomly crashing every 2 or 3 hours. You suspect the power supply. You hook your Fluke 87 to the 12V rails and switch to peak min/max and let it sit. After 2 hours you hear a beep from the Fluke and the computer reboots! You check the min/max readings and find the supply had dropped to 9 volts. The beep happened at the exact same time that you launched a CPU and graphics hungry game, so you know the PSU couldn't deliver the increased load, confirming the defect.

Or you want to know if your car battery is still good. You hook the Fluke 87 up to the battery and switch to peak min/max. You start the car and read the values. The battery voltage only dropped to 11 volts while cranking, so the battery is fine.

In all of these cases, you would have had to use a scope if it wasn't for the Fluke 87.

- 8V diode test. 'Nuff said. No other meter does this.

It's a function mainly wanted by power led tinkerers for Vf binning, normally they search this for cheap, probably a small case number so most brands do not matter to implement that.

You know what happens when you assume?
 

- No backlight timer. Once you turn it on, it stays on. This shows a deeper philosophy. The Fluke engineers assume that the users are people who know what they're doing, not senile old women.

I agree, but the definitive solution is to have both possibilities by mean of separate UI actions.

About Hi Res digit rounding, sure it's not a deal breaker, to stop the moan it's enough to leave it in hi-res mode, that works a treat for tendency monitoring like Martin shows in many other videos like

No, it clearly shows the engineers didn't think the design through. Either that, or they just didn't gave a shit. Wait, maybe that's the reason they design a backlight that makes an annoying high pitched sound. How can you rely on a meter that does weird, unexpected things?





So not a defect but a killer app for BRYMEN.

The Fluke main lacks are :

- no double display
- no pc connection
- no nice price (at least in EU)

Double display? What for? It's not displaying anything useful, like voltage and current at the same time. PC connection - again, what for? Data logging? There are meters for that, like the Fluke 289. But they suck as general use meters.

And the price? Well, you gotta pay to play.

EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the 4 times longer battery life of the 87V vs. the Brymen BM869s.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 05:39:27 am by mos6502 »
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Offline pxl

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #242 on: February 29, 2016, 06:24:21 am »
My answer is : the 87V has a better construction quality and Fluke has a better reputation, if priced within 300E VAT included  (new from authorized dealer) it could have been my choice, but @ 500E i should find a very specific reason against the BRYMEN.

Yes, that's it, the prices (at least in Europe) are not even comparable. For professional usage these could not be a problem, for a hobbyist, it would be the very last equipment to think about.

- No backlight timer. Once you turn it on, it stays on. This shows a deeper philosophy. The Fluke engineers assume that the users are people who know what they're doing, not senile old women.

Well, probably we could hack the Brymen to disable this timer :)
 

Online tooki

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #243 on: February 29, 2016, 12:02:08 pm »
Weren't there times when HP wasn't making handheld DMMs at all?
It would seem it took the 2008 acquisition of Escort by Agilent before they ever got into the handheld DMM business, as such a product isn't mentioned on either HP's or Keysight's product timeline or company history.
That's what I thought, too. But in researching my reply above, I did find a handful of handheld HP DMMs, namely the HP 970A from 1973 that looks like an immersion blender, and the HP 970 series which seems to be maybe early 1990s looking at the date of the oldest manual. No idea whether the latter was an in-house design or simply a rebadge. (Maybe those were made by Escort??)
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 12:04:11 pm by tooki »
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #244 on: February 29, 2016, 12:24:28 pm »
... the HP 970 series which seems to be maybe early 1990s looking at the date of the oldest manual. No idea whether the latter was an in-house design or simply a rebadge. (Maybe those were made by Escort??)

It seems that they were actually made for HP by Yokogawa. They look like nice instruments, it's a shame they are so rare.
 

Offline markone

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #245 on: February 29, 2016, 12:41:39 pm »
Except the specs are absolutely clear on what that mode does and what the accuracy is. There are no random variables like with certain Asian meters. It's not a useless gimmick like on the Brymen.  ;)

Let's put things in this way :

who will trust to PSU reviews where the output transient analysis is performed exclusively by  Fluke 87V peak function, without DSO capture screens ?

The random variables are on the signal nature, who assure you that what you are going to measure will respect the 87V's peak function rigid time constrains, beyond which your expensive toy will start to say you serious BS ?

The answer is : a DSO, this renders this kind of feature useful only to take voltage reading with short touch and go probe action.

Many lemmon PSUs out there source trains of very short pulses during power switch ON/OFF/ON cycles, well beyond 87V's peak detection capabilities.

And when it comes to PC power supply .... LOL ... try to put an high BW DC current clamp probe on 12V power rail and watch on scope screen how fast are load transients, also here 87V peak detector is still a useless and deceiving function.

No, it clearly shows the engineers didn't think the design through. Either that, or they just didn't gave a shit. Wait, maybe that's the reason they design a backlight that makes an annoying high pitched sound. How can you rely on a meter that does weird, unexpected things?

I wonder if you really wacthed those videos, the truth is there, no weird things with high res mode engaged, the BRYMEN has one digit more than 87V and it's working good for tendency monitoring, you have to accept it.

Double display? What for? It's not displaying anything useful, like voltage and current at the same time. PC connection - again, what for? Data logging? There are meters for that, like the Fluke 289. But they suck as general use meters.

No highed pitched sound in BM869S and talking about design flaws or crap component inside also Fluke has its OOOPS, like leaking supercap in 189 series.



About double display i think that Frequency plus Amplitude or DC plus AC are useful, of course current plus voltage would have been better.

And the price? Well, you gotta pay to play.

One can play for a lot less, even better, if capable enough.

"Clothes do not make the man", yes it applies very well here.

EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the 4 times longer battery life of the 87V vs. the Brymen BM869s.

What really i cannot forget is the 2 times price factor, for the rest is matter of taste or personal needing.

I could afford easily the 87V, but why spend much more for less ?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 02:46:34 pm by markone »
 

Offline Robomeds

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #246 on: February 29, 2016, 05:30:25 pm »
Today I was looking at the prices of Greenlee DM-820's on ebay (same housing as the BM869, 6000 count).  So basically the DM-820 only lacks the 87V's 20,000 count mode.  Used, in good shape on ebay seems to run just a bit over $100.  Fluke 83Vs are going for as much. 

Crazy how much of a premium the 87 gets.  Then again, I certainly like the 87V better for reasons that have nothing to do with safety or reliable readings. 
 

Offline mos6502

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #247 on: February 29, 2016, 05:32:28 pm »
Except the specs are absolutely clear on what that mode does and what the accuracy is. There are no random variables like with certain Asian meters. It's not a useless gimmick like on the Brymen.  ;)

Let's put things in this way :

who will trust to PSU reviews where the output transient analysis is performed exclusively by  Fluke 87V peak function, without DSO capture screens ?

The random variables are on the signal nature, who assure you that what you are going to measure will respect the 87V's peak function rigid time constrains, beyond which your expensive toy will start to say you serious BS ?

The answer is : a DSO, this renders this kind of feature useful only to take voltage reading with short touch and go probe action.

Many lemmon PSUs out there source trains of very short pulses during power switch ON/OFF/ON cycles, well beyond 87V's peak detection capabilities.

And when it comes to PC power supply .... LOL ... try to put an high BW DC current clamp probe on 12V power rail and watch on scope screen how fast are load transients, also here 87V peak detector is still a useless and deceiving function.

There's this thing called the laws of physics. The output rails of an ATX PSU have massive amounts of capacitance on them. This means that the output voltage simply can't change that fast. Even a linear lab PSU will have a few 100 uF at the output, along with wiring resistance and inductance, limiting the possible dv/dt. Yes, there are instances where the Peak Min/Max may fail, like small microprocessor supply rails, where you just have a small regulator and a few uF and glitches can really be in the us range. You just have to use your brain. But on "big" supplies, the Peak Min/Max is perfectly safe to use. Try it out. Hook your PSU up to your scope, put on a large load current and then simply turn the PSU off. I bet it takes more than 250us for the voltage to even drop significantly. And of course, the 87V can detect glitches shorter than 250us, just less accurately:



You can see that even at 50us, it's still good enough to detect glitches. The Brymen? Oh dear :'(

No, it clearly shows the engineers didn't think the design through. Either that, or they just didn't gave a shit. Wait, maybe that's the reason they design a backlight that makes an annoying high pitched sound. How can you rely on a meter that does weird, unexpected things?

I wonder if you really wacthed those videos, the truth is there, no weird things with high res mode engaged, the BRYMEN has one digit more than 87V and it's working good for tendency monitoring, you have to accept it.

Very limited real-world use. Say I remove the charge current from a battery. I know what's going to happen. The voltage is going to drop slowly. It's not going to go up. I don't need a meter to tell me that. If I want to measure how fast it drops, 4 1/2 digits are plenty enough.

Double display? What for? It's not displaying anything useful, like voltage and current at the same time. PC connection - again, what for? Data logging? There are meters for that, like the Fluke 289. But they suck as general use meters.

No highed pitched sound in BM869S and talking about design flaws or crap component inside also Fluke has its OOOPS, like leaking supercap in 189 series.



About double display i think that Frequency plus Amplitude or DC plus AC are useful, of course current plus voltage would have been better.

Very rarely needed, and can be measured with a single display meter just as well, only takes one turn of the knob.

But good point about the supercap. Yes, hardware can have defects. There also was the 87V GSM bug. But you know what happened? Fluke simply replaced the defective meters for free. If I buy a Fluke, I know that I will also get an excellent warranty that's good for at least 10 years. What about Brymen? Say your 869's display dies 5 years from now, what do you do then? Send it back to TME? They'll just laugh at you.  :-DD

And the price? Well, you gotta pay to play.

One can play for a lot less, even better, if capable enough.

"Clothes do not make the man", yes it applies very well here.

EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the 4 times longer battery life of the 87V vs. the Brymen BM869s.

What really i cannot forget is the 2 times price factor, for the rest is matter of taste or personal needing.

I could afford easily the 87V, but why spend much more for less ?

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used an 87V?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:01:40 pm by mos6502 »
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Offline YU2

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #248 on: February 29, 2016, 05:51:49 pm »
Thanks to this blog and mister David Jones I bought 87V. The main factor that attracted me is trustworthy of what it displays even after years and years of use. I don't have to use other meter just to be sure measurements are correct, I just trust him.
Second reason is the safety, even that it's mainly use for low energy electronics and stays on bench I love good quality tools and the fact I can hook it any time to high energy source without any fear.
And it was brand new unused but bought it second hand for the price less than bm869 with VAT would cost so if I understand lifetime warranty does not apply. But that was not the deal break anyway, since it's exceptional quality and has proven itself for years.
 

Offline WackyGerman

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Re: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?
« Reply #249 on: February 29, 2016, 08:09:37 pm »
Well , in my company where I work we only have Fluke multimeters . Because from the beginning on Fluke multimeter have one of the best input protection on the market , they are robust , don t need much energy to work , don t drift and are easy to purchase . Every year they go for calibration so we can confirm that they are stable as a rock . For company only these facts are interesting : safety , robustness and stability . 6000 digits are more than enough for measuring values . My company only made good experiences with Fluke multimeters so they keep going on buying these multimeters . One major problem of Brymen is the marketing . I only know two internet stores in Germany where you can buy Brymen multimeters , lots of stores sells Fluke multimeters and accessoires . Brymen offers also only a few accessoires . You can buy a magnetic hanger , the usb adaptor kit , silicone probes and that s it . No crocodile clips , no cases or pouches , smt grabbers , fine tip test probes etc. . Companies like to buy all that stuff from one manufacturer and Brymen cannot offer these things they need for work . Also a problem is that the website from Brymen doesn t look really professional and this scares the companies who don t know anything about Brymen . That s a bit of a shame . Brymen really build very good multimeters , another multimeter manufacturer know the quality and let build the multimeters for them ( Beha , Extech , Greenlee , Metrel , Elma , Elbro ) but the most end user don t know that s built by Brymen . I have a BM 257s , an Agilent U1242b , a Fluke 177 provided in my company and other multimeters so I can compare . The Agilent is a really good , fast and accurate multimeter , has a nice display with a good backlight but it doesn t make a  solid impression and I don t like the range switch at all . It feels really spongy so it s the worst range switch of them . But Agilent offers lots of accessoires for affordable prices so this is a big pro for Agilent . The Fluke 177 feels really really solid , the range switch is the best , the display is not as good as the Agilent but it is not that bad and the accessoires are horrible expensive . The BM 257s also feels solid but not as good as the Fluke , the range switch is a little stiff but not that bad , the display is really good but it only has CAT IV 300 Volt rating so it not allowable to measure 690 V at the grid of a wind energy plant . The Fluke and the Agilent have 600 V CAT IV rating . My favorite meter at home is the BM 257s . I just need the probes for my measurements , the display is more than good enough and the range switch is also not that bad .I don t know what would happen if it drops from 2 meters on the floor ,  If it would then it is not that big drama , just bad luck if it fails . But in my job I am dependent of a multimeter . Would be a desaster if it fails when I work at a wind energy plant in the back of beyond , hundreds of kilometers away from my company and from a store where you can buy a replacement  :scared:. Brymen still is a insider tip here in Germany . Fluke is expensive and don t have the most bang per buck but if you buy a Fluke you don t do anything wrong because they work well . Well you don t do also anything wrong as a hobbyist if you buy a Bryman . Fluke multimeters have the better quality but a Brymen is a really good compromise .
 


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