If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?

[BeBuLamar]

I don't know but it's rated IP65 which is supposed to be more rugged than the Fluke. However, I don't know about the battery life on that thing. Perhaps if I use it I would have to charge it just before every use.

[joeqsmith]

I don't know but it's rated IP65 which is supposed to be more rugged than the Fluke. However, I don't know about the battery life on that thing. Perhaps if I use it I would have to charge it just before every use.

I have collected some data on battery life.  The 181A is one of the worse I have looked at.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cXzYpIoyVm9QJUju4KXqM22CEQZP3_xwWvDyeVwxTy4/edit#gid=656210876

I think the worse one I have is the Fluke 97A which will drain a set of four NiMH C cells in about 8 hours. 

I don't get too concerned with moisture testing.  Most of what I want to know if the meter will survive low level voltage transients on the inputs.  More recently, I started looking at the selector switches life time.   As many UNI-T products I have looked at, I have never life tested one of their switches.

[BeBuLamar]

Oh you talked about the 97a which is a scope then the 8 hrs isn't bad. My 196c the battery (new) won't last 2 hrs. If I put it away in a week or so the battery is dead.

[joeqsmith]

Is that normal, or is there something wrong with it?   

[BeBuLamar]

I am not really sure! I inherit the scope. Didn't have it since new. I bought new battery for it but the battery life is always very short.

[joeqsmith]

Don't you think its a bit odd it would only hold a charge for a week, turned off?  You could start a thread and see if anyone has experience with it.  You may get some idea what battery life you should expect.   

My 97 has been off a few months now and fires right up.   I would expect yours would be a big improvement.   

[Doctorandus_P]

Yesterday I bumped into this "Fluke Rant" from Kiss Analog.
Short story: He has been buying Fluke all his life (He's got 10+ of them) and he just never considered any other brand.
It's just that after he started his youtube channel and bought some other meters for reviews that he discovered that they also make good meters.



I have been seeing a lot of reviews of Brymen meters lately, and I'm very impressed with the fast autoranging, all those digits, very clear displays, the well thought out functions (such as remembering whether you prefer AC or DC for volts) Low Z and lots of others.

I've also been looking at availability and pricing in a local shop and their "top 10" multimeters:
https://www.eleshop.nl/testen-meten/multimeters/top-10-multimeters.html
It's got 3 Brymen meters and also 3 fluke meters.
The three Brymen meters have 12 + 16 + 14 = 48 reviews, and the fluke meters have 2 + 2 + 1 = 5 reviews total.
And that while they have been selling Fluke for much longer then Brymen (They started with Brymen 7 or so years ago.)

[Fungus]

Yesterday I bumped into this "Fluke Rant" from Kiss Analog.
Short story: He has been buying Fluke all his life (He's got 10+ of them) and he just never considered any other brand.
It's just that after he started his youtube channel and bought some other meters for reviews that he discovered that they also make good meters.

There's still plenty of people here who don't believe anybody other than Fluke knows how to make good meters.

[rsjsouza]

Yesterday I bumped into this "Fluke Rant" from Kiss Analog.
Short story: He has been buying Fluke all his life (He's got 10+ of them) and he just never considered any other brand.
It's just that after he started his youtube channel and bought some other meters for reviews that he discovered that they also make good meters.

I have seen this rant before and found somewhat shallow. Despite I agree with the overall premise that Fluke's bang per buck has been quite unfavourable in the light of newer offers, his fixation on the somewhat secondary aspects such as the tilting bale, as well as the probes and IP ratings could have been summarized in 5 minutes.

One additional aspect that he just talks without any valid data is his rant about are the yahoos that electrically stress the meters (a jab at joeqsmith perhaps?). Sure, if one is concerned about using a meter on CAT III or IV, they would be much more concerned about this test than any other but that wouldn't probably be a decision made through a Youtube video. However, what he misses is the occasional user that blows his/her meter simply because it was in the wrong range - and believe me, a LOT of people do this. As for myself, I have been doing these tests with a very low power source (just higher voltage at a few mA) and some of them go absolutely haywire.

There's still plenty of people here who don't believe anybody other than Fluke knows how to make good meters.

Indeed. Although some of the folks actually justify the expense due to the durability and/or past experiences. One can't deny Fluke's track record in this sense.

[joeqsmith]

Yesterday I bumped into this "Fluke Rant" from Kiss Analog.
Short story: He has been buying Fluke all his life (He's got 10+ of them) and he just never considered any other brand.
..

I've watched a few of his videos.  He had written me about safety and the testing I've performed.   He seems like a nice guy.     

For this particular video, notice how he has bought several used meters.  Some are fairly old like the 189 for example.  Some, more than 20 years old.   These have stood the test of time.   What's missing are his collection of used old  cheap meters.   

It requires little education to make a channel and voice your opinion about what you feel are good meters.  Watch a few reviews where PTCs are identified as being  MOVs, op-amps as LCD controllers, and talking about safety while showing the motor start fuse from the local hardware store installed in your meter.  You may find that many of these people are not educated in the area where they present themselves as experts.  I believe this particular person is a cut above most of them.   

While he mentions safety many times throughout the video, we don't hear him talk about how robust they are.  Will the switches on these low cost meters that he claims are just as good, hold up over time?  Will they survive any sort of low energy high voltage transient without going to the landfill?   Don't just talk about it, show it.     

[rsjsouza]

Joe, I have the impression of a déja-vu on both our arguments about this video and channel... Perhaps earlier in this thread or somewhere else in the EEVblogosphere.

[joeqsmith]

That's very possible. 

When he starts talking about the bone heads and the amount of energy they test at not being real world, I am not sure he actually understood the levels I ran them at.      While I can demonstrate what 20 Joules looks like when discharging some caps to a metal plate, it doesn't always register.   

https://youtu.be/3YW0aaED9aQ?t=442

I suspect many of the expert reviewers don't have the ability to do any level of testing beyond hooking them to a resistor and power supply.   Still, if the goal is to get enough support to earn a living off a channel, you need to look at everything from how to maximize your income.   You want to make your audience feel good about their purchases.    That's never been a goal for this bonehead and I'm perfectly fine with that.      

[Doctorandus_P]

At no point did I have the impression that he had you in mind when talking about boneheads.
There are quite a lot of idiots who dismantle microwave ovens and tape the tube to a broomstick and start irradiating electronics and their neighbors alike, or who put 12V on Li-Ion battery cells just to see them smoke, or who build tesla coils just to see a DMM fly off their bench.

The inductive coin shrinkers are quite impressive though.

[joeqsmith]

Hard to say as he leaves it open.   I think he said he worked in a test lab.  Seeing rack mounted large surge generators like Fluke shows in their videos shouldn't be any surprise for him. 

****
I just watched his background video.  He talks about his time in a test lab.  I stand by my comment of him being a cut above the typical reviewers.   

[EEVblog]

There's still plenty of people here who don't believe anybody other than Fluke knows how to make good meters.

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to? And many people and companies simply don't have to, because they don't care about price point.

[HKJ]

I just watched his background video.  He talks about his time in a test lab.  I stand by my comment of him being a cut above the typical reviewers.   

He is a cut above some reviewers, but he do not see a reason for a fast continuity and guesses that a shield over some chips (not relays) may be mu-metal.

[Fungus]

There's still plenty of people here who don't believe anybody other than Fluke knows how to make good meters.

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to? And many people and companies simply don't have to, because they don't care about price point.

Sure. If you aren't price sensitive and don't want to think, then... Fluke is good enough.

[BeBuLamar]

Is the Brymen 869s made in Taiwan?

[HKJ]

Is the Brymen 869s made in Taiwan?

It says so on the back of mine, you can sort of see it on a photo here:
https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMBrymen%20BM869s%20UK.html

[joeqsmith]

I just watched his background video.  He talks about his time in a test lab.  I stand by my comment of him being a cut above the typical reviewers.   

He is a cut above some reviewers, but he do not see a reason for a fast continuity and guesses that a shield over some chips (not relays) may be mu-metal.

Sure, he's human and will not have all the answers and make mistakes.   I've seen people here post a totally wrong formula for AC+DC.

[BeBuLamar]

The Brymen has some functions that the Fluke doesn't but overall the 289 has way more functionality, eg. It has a graphical display and can draw graphs.

(It also takes time to "boot up" and it chews through batteries like there's no tomorrow)

Your mentioned of the 289 graphical display and after I watch Joe's comparison of the 289 vs UT-T 181a they reminded me why its graphical display is more or a hindrance than advantage. It's a lot lower in contrast and the backlight is almost always needed. It's too slow so that I may do the recording with the 289 alone but I would upload the data to the PC for viewing and not trying to view on the 289.

[YetAnotherTechie]

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to?

Because "Duracells" happen....

[Analog4]

Brymen does not have warranty support in the USA, but one can buy a Greenlee DM-860A for about $314 USD with a warranty.
https://www.tequipment.net/search/?F_Keyword=DM-860A

Instead I sold my old Fluke 70 on eBay and bought a Brymen BM789 for $216.00 (with shipping & case) from Germany.

So I am rolling the dice, that I don't need a warranty.

[normi]

If you are buying for your company it is much easier to purchase a well established brand as you don't have to keep explaining why you chose the less known brand.

[EEVblog]

There's still plenty of people here who don't believe anybody other than Fluke knows how to make good meters.

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to? And many people and companies simply don't have to, because they don't care about price point.

Sure. If you aren't price sensitive and don't want to think, then... Fluke is good enough.

It's not a matter of just thinking and lookign at feature brochues, building up trust and confience in a bit of test gear can take substantial time, and that matters to a lot of people.
It may not matter to you, and that's fine, but I wouldn't dismiss anyone who wants to to stick with the same brand because of decades of confidence in it.
Speak to anyone in metrology when it comes to test gear and they will talk your ear off for hours on the subject.