Author Topic: If Brymen BM869s is cheaper and as good, why people would still buy Fluke?  (Read 154414 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Is the Brymen 869s made in Taiwan?

All Brymens are made in Taiwan that I know of. They are a Taiwanese company.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to?
Because "Duracells" happen.... ::)

I don't get the point?
Ok, you batteries leak and destroy you meter and you have to buy a new one. What's what got to do with the argument whether you stick with a brand you have trusted for decades, or you switch to another one?
 
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Offline Monkeh

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To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to?
Because "Duracells" happen.... ::)

I don't get the point?
Ok, you batteries leak and destroy you meter and you have to buy a new one. What's what got to do with the argument whether you stick with a brand you have trusted for decades, or you switch to another one?

You missed it.

People have trusted Duracell for years. Nowadays, they leak and destroy equipment*. People have trusted Fluke for years - will they mess up and start selling garbage? The answer is of course, maybe, so keep an open mind and be aware of your options. Nothing wrong with remaining 'loyal' to a trusted brand, but ignorance of the market is nothing to be proud of.

* At least, that's how people see it. To be fair, I've had a lot of leaky Duracells too, and I don't see that they're worth the money over anything else, but I'm not convinced they're the leakiest batteries known to man..
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 04:07:25 am by Monkeh »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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To be fair, there is nothing wrong with staying with a trusted brand that has proven itself to you over many decades.
Why spend any time and effort trying to evaluate alternatives if you don't have to?
Because "Duracells" happen.... ::)

I don't get the point?
Ok, you batteries leak and destroy you meter and you have to buy a new one. What's what got to do with the argument whether you stick with a brand you have trusted for decades, or you switch to another one?

You missed it.

People have trusted Duracell for years. Nowadays, they leak and destroy equipment*. People have trusted Fluke for years - will they mess up and start selling garbage? The answer is of course, maybe, so keep an open mind and be aware of your options. Nothing wrong with remaining 'loyal' to a trusted brand, but ignorance of the market is nothing to be proud of.

Ah, gotcha.
Yes, sticking with a trusted brand is no absolute guarantee of not getting lemon in the future, but it's a safe way to bet.
Not just betting with your money but also your time and possible reputation and income and other things in extreme cases.
Betting on a new brand is a gamble. Sure you can mitigate that risk by testing it and evaluating it, but that takes time and money.
I've have more than one example from industry where cheap meters failing has cost way more than buying that time proven Fluke 87 meter to begin with.

To be fair, I also have experience with the infamous Fluke 19 meter, of which every single one of them failed in a production environment. Try and buy a working one today rare as hens teeth.
In that case, although we stuck with the same brand, we bought a whole bunch of Fluke 19's because they were cazy cheap at the time (Fluke's first made in China meter, and it was an experiment for the asian pacific market) compared with the tried and proven Fluke 70 series the company had used for decades.
So even within the same company, switching models of meters was enough for us to come-a-gutsa. And people wonder why the Fluke 70 and 80 series still sells 30+ years later and Fluke doesn't want to change it.

It's like the BM235 for example. Back when I first offered it, Brymen was still pretty new to people and they were skeptical. And maybe rightly so, it went through several software and hardware revisions and issues over the years as I've documented.
But now half a decade later it's starting to be considered by many to be a reliable workhorse. Want to trust the new model BM786 over the BM235? It's technically a bit of gamble even though it's the same company, same plant that makes it and same design team, and they have improved, but it's still a bit of a gamble because it's not proven over time.

Quote
Nothing wrong with remaining 'loyal' to a trusted brand, but ignorance of the market is nothing to be proud of.

Some might say that spending time and effort to constantly re-evaluate the market to find the current best value meter is nothing to be proud of either. Just keep buying what works and spend your efforts on more important things.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 07:31:02 am by EEVblog »
 

Online Fungus

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People have trusted Duracell for years. Nowadays, they leak and destroy equipment*. People have trusted Fluke for years - will they mess up and start selling garbage? The answer is of course, maybe

Fluke isn't involved in a race to the bottom like batteries were/are.

There's signs that the "lifetime warranty" isn't what it used to be, they might close regional offices to save costs, but they'd have to have some unbelievably stupid management to mess up the meters. The design is done and the profit margin is big. All they have to do is not touch anything.

Fluke problem is that they can't evolve any more. They'll still be making the exact same 87V 100 years from now.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Is the Brymen 869s made in Taiwan?

All Brymens are made in Taiwan that I know of. They are a Taiwanese company.

That is a good thing. I don't like products from companies that makes them outside their country.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Is the Brymen 869s made in Taiwan?

All Brymens are made in Taiwan that I know of. They are a Taiwanese company.

That is a good thing. I don't like products from companies that makes them outside their country.

Fluke make an entire range of meters in China.
 
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Offline BeBuLamar

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They also made them in Singapore too and I avoid buying those.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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They also made them in Singapore too and I avoid buying those.
Then you should avoid all the Fluke equipments for example.

Made in the US as they were before they are no more. Assembled in the US with US parts and non US Parts should be the right nomenclature.

ADI is a US company in California, factories in Malaysia and US (LT1116 is a Ground-Sensing Comparator from ADI used in the 87V);
Vishay is an US company, factories in Israel, US, Germany and Mexico (Dale WRS-2 Power Metal Strip Resistors from Vishay is used in the 87V).

That just to mention 2 of them. In this connected world, trying to keep nationalisms is a lost of time. Products and brands should be judged by their quality, not from where they were manufactured.

I always had contact with Fluke during education and in my first job, where all the measurement equipments were from Fluke/Phillips, and that made me choose the Fluke 289 FVF Kit as my first Fluke acquisition at full price back in 2007.

Independent if it was a good buy or not or if there was at the time better equipments in the market with the same functionalities for less, I made the choice because of my background and the confidence I had in the brand and what I needed at the time. After that bought used both the Fluke 54II in 2008 and a Fluke 87V in 2019 as my last acquisition.

I had problems both with the 289 (supercap draining the batteries in less than 2 weeks) and the 54II (temperature probe socket solder cracked from the PCB) and they repaired without any questions asked (specially the 54II that were outside of warranty already for about 2 years). That is what I call a great support after sales and a way to keep a customer, specially when they didn't had to repair for free some equipment that I wasn't the first owner and were outside of warranty.

Although I recommended to close friends looking for specific DMMs, models from UNI-T and last one was a Brymen. Why because I see them as excellent alternatives (depending of the kind of use) from a Fluke. I would probably in a near future buy a EEVBlog Brymen directly from Dave not because I need but because I believe in what the brand achieved and to support Dave himself.

I couldn't care less if Brymen, Fluke, Uni-T, Keysight, etc is made in China, Taiwan, Israel, US, EU, etc. I choose an equipment by the following:

  • First a big emphasis in Safety;
  • Second functions that I need;
  • Third price I'm willing to pay.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 05:41:46 pm by Black Phoenix »
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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And Fluke doesn't fix the broken metal clip in the battery compartment of the Fluke 287. I am very disappointed about this.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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And Fluke doesn't fix the broken metal clip in the battery compartment of the Fluke 287. I am very disappointed about this.

I make extensive use of my battery cover from the Fluke 289 since I remove always the batteries from the compartment after use (Even Eneloops and the time function for me is away of a quick sync with the PC) and I didn't had any problem with the metal clip. And I'm sure I open and closed the battery door 100+ times since I got it. Good as new. I really fail to see how that clip can break other than yanking out incorrectly the battery compartment or forcing it wrongly when putting all together.

First goes the top close to the strap loop in a 45o angle and then the bottom slides in. Opposite way is reversing the steps - Bottom slides out until the 45o angle and everything slides out to the bottom of the DMM.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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I don't know how he broke it either. First time he broke it I sent it to Fluke and they replaced the battery holder for free. Second time they told me such a damage isn't covered. I have my 289 for like 3 years already but since I don't use it often I changed the battery only once. My coworker he uses it daily so he changed the batteries very often.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Duracell used to be a famous brand in 1990s I think. I remember them. :( :(
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Online Fungus

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I don't know how he broke it either. First time he broke it I sent it to Fluke and they replaced the battery holder for free. Second time they told me such a damage isn't covered.

"Lifetime" warranty is only against factory defects, not against people breaking them. No manufacturer could possibly give free lifetime repairs/replacements on everything they sell.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 04:46:48 am by Fungus »
 

Online rsjsouza

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I don't know how he broke it either. First time he broke it I sent it to Fluke and they replaced the battery holder for free. Second time they told me such a damage isn't covered.

"Lifetime" warranty is only against factory defects, not against people breaking them. No manufacturer could possibly give free lifetime repairs/replacements on everything they sell.
Indeed. They probably store the serial number and check if the same repair was done once on the same meter.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Fluke might have an easier calibration than Brymen.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Fluke might have an easier calibration than Brymen.

I don't know about the Brymen but for the Fluke 289 calibration is almost automatic with the right equipment but you do need the right equipment.
 

Offline rfclown

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Some might say that spending time and effort to constantly re-evaluate the market to find the current best value meter is nothing to be proud of either. Just keep buying what works and spend your efforts on more important things.

For the industrial workplace, there is generally very little time/resource given to evalute the market. It's, "we need to buy a meter", and it has to work and has to be reliable for many years. You buy what you know works. There is no time to put up with crap. Something like Brymen might be great, but Fluke has proven itself to be reliable. Exceptions always occur, and Fluke could lose their way someday, but for now, it is still a safe bet. I work at a company that has too few instruments per engineer; so several of us bring in some of our own equipment to avoid frustration. I happen to have a ANENG AN8008 of mine at work. But if I ever question a measurement, or if I'm doing something for which the measurement is really important, I get one of the few Flukes that the company owns. I don't question them. My Fluke is in my home lab.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 03:18:18 am by rfclown »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Fluke might have an easier calibration than Brymen.
I don't know about the Brymen but for the Fluke 289 calibration is almost automatic with the right equipment but you do need the right equipment.

The Fluke 87 uses the piezo transducer to communicate with the calibration gear. It's not documented because the info is only available to cal labs.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Some might say that spending time and effort to constantly re-evaluate the market to find the current best value meter is nothing to be proud of either. Just keep buying what works and spend your efforts on more important things.

For the industrial workplace, there is generally very little time/resource given to evalute the market. It's, "we need to buy a meter", and it has to work and has to be reliable for many years. You buy what you know works. There is no time to put up with crap.

Also, and this might be hard to hear, probably the majority of engineers in industry are not enthusiats. They don't trawl forums for fun discussing test gear, watch test gear reviews, get excited about some new meter etc. Their Fluke broke or they need another one, so what do they buy, Fluke of course.
And why was the Fluke in the company to begin with? Because Fluke have been the industry leader in the digital meter field for longer than many engineers have been alive.
 
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Offline Howardlong

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Some might say that spending time and effort to constantly re-evaluate the market to find the current best value meter is nothing to be proud of either. Just keep buying what works and spend your efforts on more important things.

For the industrial workplace, there is generally very little time/resource given to evalute the market. It's, "we need to buy a meter", and it has to work and has to be reliable for many years. You buy what you know works. There is no time to put up with crap.

Also, and this might be hard to hear, probably the majority of engineers in industry are not enthusiats. They don't trawl forums for fun discussing test gear, watch test gear reviews, get excited about some new meter etc. Their Fluke broke or they need another one, so what do they buy, Fluke of course.
And why was the Fluke in the company to begin with? Because Fluke have been the industry leader in the digital meter field for longer than many engineers have been alive.

That's also a key reason why people still buy Tek scopes, living off their reputation from the CRO era.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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That's also a key reason why people still buy Tek scopes, living off their reputation from the CRO era.

It kinda makes me remember that say -  "'No one ever got fired for buying IBM"!.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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I don't know. Recently I do a bit a research on DMM and if I don't buy a Fluke (as they may be resting on their laurels) I would consider Hioki, Yokogawa, Gossen and even Keysight before Brymen.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Funny to realize that my thread is exactly 6 years old now today, and that the discussions about Brymen and Fluke are still as fresh as the day I posted my thread!

Keep the debate going here! :)
 

Online HKJ

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I don't know. Recently I do a bit a research on DMM and if I don't buy a Fluke (as they may be resting on their laurels) I would consider Hioki, Yokogawa, Gossen and even Keysight before Brymen.

I have all of them and a couple more and I would not prioritize them that way, but then the prioritizing depends very much on what I want the meter for.
 


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