EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Scratch.HTF on January 31, 2019, 02:44:33 am

Title: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: Scratch.HTF on January 31, 2019, 02:44:33 am
Do you know of any cases where test equipment has been illegally upgraded (especially if it involves sale/resale)?
Keysight is aware of this regarding one of their board test tools: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5990-4726EN.pdf?id=1784867 (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5990-4726EN.pdf?id=1784867)
From what I see, this can be a (highly) lucurative business, and PicoTech does not require you to pay for software options.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: orion242 on January 31, 2019, 02:54:24 am
Quote from: Scratch.HTF on January 31, 2019, 02:44:33 am
From what I see, this can be a (highly) lucurative business

Maybe till the point the federalies roll you up.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: SilverSolder on January 31, 2019, 03:01:52 am
Keep doing something wrong long enough...  it usually has an unhappy ending.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: colorado.rob on January 31, 2019, 03:41:25 am
Illegal depends on the jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: BillB on January 31, 2019, 02:52:31 pm
In the US, illegal is definitely fluid when it comes to the right to modify things you own:

https://ifixit.org/blog/11951/1201-copyright-final-rule/ (https://ifixit.org/blog/11951/1201-copyright-final-rule/)
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: Fungus on January 31, 2019, 03:48:45 pm
I suspect this is a new legal area.

I'm having trouble thinking of anything other than test gear that has purchasable options like this.

eg. Cars have chippable engines but chipping a car wouldn't increase the resale value on the general market.

Some big-iron computers have unlockable extra CPUs but they're normally bought direct from the manufacturer, no middle men generating upgrade codes.

Maybe this is why the new Rigol DS5000 doesn't show the options as unlocked on screen when you use the -allopt hack. This makes it easy to detect hacking (ie. optional menus are enabled but options are not listed as 'installed' on the system info screen). A potential buyer would know they were being ripped off as soon as they saw the system info and report the dealer to Rigol.

Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: coppercone2 on January 31, 2019, 03:56:07 pm
Hey maybe they will actually give physical features that do the stuff we want instead of selling nerfed crap. Hopefully this takes off big time in russia.

Maybe something impressive like a coprocessor card instead of  some shitty hacked together dsp.

Its like dlc in videogames. Someone got a stiffy because they can take the shipping and manufacturing departments out of the profit equation...
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: Ducttape on January 31, 2019, 04:47:51 pm
Quote from: BillB on January 31, 2019, 02:52:31 pm
In the US, illegal is definitely fluid when it comes to the right to modify things you own:

https://ifixit.org/blog/11951/1201-copyright-final-rule/ (https://ifixit.org/blog/11951/1201-copyright-final-rule/)

It's gotten pretty hard to even legally work on your own tractor nowadays.

https://theamericangenius.com/business-news/farmers-cant-legally-fix-their-own-john-deere-tractors-due-to-copyright-laws/
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: bd139 on January 31, 2019, 04:51:07 pm
Legality depends on the size of the law firm backing your ass, nothing more. The whole point is to make it mutually assured destruction if one side loses so both sides pull out before going to official war ground.

Rigol I can probably fight off. Keysight, no. And that’s how it rolls.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: rsjsouza on January 31, 2019, 04:57:46 pm
This type of subject was already discussed to death around here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/reasons-for-hacking-dsos/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/reasons-for-hacking-dsos/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/legal-to-hack-oscilloscope/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/legal-to-hack-oscilloscope/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacked-vs-not-hacked-osc/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacked-vs-not-hacked-osc/)
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: Fungus on January 31, 2019, 06:13:10 pm
Quote from: rsjsouza on January 31, 2019, 04:57:46 pm
This type of subject was already discussed to death around here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/reasons-for-hacking-dsos/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/reasons-for-hacking-dsos/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/legal-to-hack-oscilloscope/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/legal-to-hack-oscilloscope/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacked-vs-not-hacked-osc/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacked-vs-not-hacked-osc/)

I thought this was about hacking+reselling for a profit, not just people hacking at home.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: rsjsouza on January 31, 2019, 06:16:38 pm
Quote from: Fungus on January 31, 2019, 06:13:10 pm
I thought this was about hacking+reselling for a profit, not just people hacking at home.
The subject deviated to legality, which is covered at large in the threads I mentioned.
Title: Re: Illegally upgraded test equipment
Post by: eKretz on January 31, 2019, 07:40:16 pm
Long story short, if you do this for profit on any kind of volume scale you will probably get your arse nailed to the wall eventually. Doing your own gear for your own use you will be fine.