Is Rigol DS1054Z still a good option in 2019?

[BillB]

Proving what? That they bought too many oscilloscopes? That that bought a Tek when a Rigol could do the job? What...?

Proving that some people are desperately looking for perceived issues with Rigol oscilloscopes. 

They should have just bought the Siglent SDS1104X-E. 


I'll see myself out.

[Fungus]

Proving what? That they bought too many oscilloscopes? That that bought a Tek when a Rigol could do the job? What...?

Proving that some people are desperately looking for perceived issues with Rigol oscilloscopes. 

Yep. It's obvious that if there's a table with a $350 Rigol + a $2000 Tek on it, I'm going to use the Tek. Why wouldn't I? 

OTOH I can still do my job perfectly well if you take away the Tek.

(YMMV).

[nctnico]

Nonsense. At one of my customers they have a couple of Rigols and a Tektronix TBS2000. The Rigols sit idle and the TBS2000 gets used all the time.

Proving what? That they bought too many oscilloscopes? That that bought a Tek when a Rigol could do the job? What...?

I'll spell it out for you: nobody wants to use the Rigols because the TBS2000 is just more convenient to use. Bigger screen, crisp traces and individual channel controls.

[Fungus]

They should have just bought the Siglent SDS1104X-E. 

ntnico already admitted that the Siglent isn't a "real oscilloscope". 

If I hire someone and they want a DS1054Z as a scope then I'd tell them no. It is time for you to use a real oscilloscope (likely something in the 1.5k to 4k euro range).

[Fungus]

I'll spell it out for you: nobody wants to use the Rigols because the TBS2000 is just more convenient to use. Bigger screen, crisp traces and individual channel controls.

So? If there were three cars in the company lot, two Ford Fiestas and a BMW, I bet the BMW would rack up more mileage.

That doesn't tell us anything at all about the Fiestas though. If you're just popping out for lunch they'll get you there and back just fine.

[Fungus]

Whenever my car needs an oil change, I just swap out the entire engine. I mean where are we drawing the line here?

Some forum members find it easy to spend other people's money.

[BillB]

They should have just bought the Siglent SDS1104X-E. 

They should have spent an extra 110€ for things they don't need. Whenever my car needs an oil change, I just swap out the entire engine. I mean where are we drawing the line here?

In light of this discussion, the line should be drawn thusly:

When the car needs an oil change, you drive it to the crusher and buy a new one, of course.

[Candid]

@Sudo_apt-get_install_yum
Did you make your choice now? I think everything is said now ;-) (well not from everyone) I wonder what your decision is.

[tautech]

What many of the armchair TE jockeys here do not have is the experience to assess an individual buyers needs and of you lot squabbling over brands nctnico is most in tune with this as he has used many brands in his professional career.

The best solution for any buyer is not always straightforward and is certainly not always cost based is best.
Just like selecting a hammer there are many that will do the job and some that are many times better than just a hunk of steel on the end of a handle.

Aside from that the OP is no doubt enjoying these squabbles going by the lack of his participation but no doubt recognizes the advantages of staying with a brand an UI that he's already very familiar with.....that adds up to a significant saving in personal hobbyist time, something we are always short of to pursue our interests.

Brand choice here is not so much the issue but UI so the OP can quickly use a familiar UI in his precious spare time and not return to work on a Monday having to relearn the UI in the scope his employer supplies. His 'at work' performance could also benefit from the ahrs use of a scope very similar to the one he uses at work.

[Fungus]

....no doubt recognizes the advantages of staying with a brand an UI that he's already very familiar with.....that adds up to a significant saving in personal hobbyist time, something we are always short of to pursue our interests.

Brand choice here is not so much the issue but UI so the OP can quickly use a familiar UI in his precious spare time and not return to work on a Monday having to relearn the UI in the scope his employer supplies. His 'at work' performance could also benefit from the ahrs use of a scope very similar to the one he uses at work.

I think you underestimate people. Oscilloscopes aren't that complex to use or wildly different from each other.

Maybe he'll enjoy the simple column of buttons down the left side of Rigols for turning on measurements. It sure beats Siglent's popup-and-twiddle-like-hell system.

[Mr. Scram]

What many of the armchair TE jockeys here do not have is the experience to assess an individual buyers needs and of you lot squabbling over brands nctnico is most in tune with this as he has used many brands in his professional career.

The best solution for any buyer is not always straightforward and is certainly not always cost based is best.
Just like selecting a hammer there are many that will do the job and some that are many times better than just a hunk of steel on the end of a handle.

Aside from that the OP is no doubt enjoying these squabbles going by the lack of his participation but no doubt recognizes the advantages of staying with a brand an UI that he's already very familiar with.....that adds up to a significant saving in personal hobbyist time, something we are always short of to pursue our interests.

Brand choice here is not so much the issue but UI so the OP can quickly use a familiar UI in his precious spare time and not return to work on a Monday having to relearn the UI in the scope his employer supplies. His 'at work' performance could also benefit from the ahrs use of a scope very similar to the one he uses at work.

Siglent dealer says OP should buy "a very similar" oscilloscope to the one at work, which happens to be a Siglent  The comment about squabbles is amusing as almost all of the squabbles on this forum are ignited or fanned by a handful of usual suspects pushing "their" brand, at least two of which are Siglent sellers.

[tautech]

Siglent dealer says OP should buy "a very similar" oscilloscope to the one at work, which happens to be a Siglent......

And you dismiss that as of nil value ? 

When the perfect scope is made and one can switch from one to another without impact on throughput and any fuss, then you might have some point. 

[nctnico]

I think you underestimate people. Oscilloscopes aren't that complex to use or wildly different from each other.

You couldn't be more wrong here... some oscilloscopes can be a real PITA to use. Especially if you want to use things like decoding, probe multipliers, math, etc. Some are easy to setup, others need going through menus endlessly. A good UI and clever tricks to improve productivity often don't make it to the datasheet but they make a huge difference. I used to own an Agilent MSO7104A. This is a higher-end scope (especially when introduced) but a total pain to setup beyond getting wiggly lines. Much to my own surprise I ended up liking the GW Instek (I bought as a brind-along scope) better because it is so much easier to use. I still have & use the GW Instek. The MSO7104A got sold a long time ago.

[Mr. Scram]

And you dismiss that as of nil value ? 

When the perfect scope is made and one can switch from one to another without impact on throughput and any fuss, then you might have some point.

Essentially. One could argue in depth experience with more platforms and being better prepared for anything the world at large can throw at you is more valuable than being comfortable immediately. Flexible employees are valuable employees. Experiencing different design approaches and angles and seeing what works and what doesn't is also a valuable experience for any technician or engineer. It's one of the reasons we watch Dave's videos after all. Besides, a new oscilloscope isn't exactly a night and day affair.

[tautech]

I think you underestimate people. Oscilloscopes aren't that complex to use or wildly different from each other.

You couldn't be more wrong here... some oscilloscopes can be a real PITA to use. Especially if you want to use things like decoding and math. Some are easy to setup, others need going through menus endlessly. A good UI and clever tricks to improve productivity often don't make it to the datasheet but they make a huge difference.

Yep all that.

Of the Teks (CRO's and DSO's), HP's Telequipment, Philips, BWD, Atten, Siglent and yes Rigol I've used the variance in UI is immense just to do the same thing ! 
That modern equipment all have deeper menu structures can make them harder to use, not just because of substantially more functionality but mostly hidden menu controls whereas they were once all on the front panel.
Each piece of equipment takes precious time to learn and the buyer of any new brand must be aware if this as it can dramatically impact on productivity until familiarity and muscle memory builds to help out.
A little time one on one spent with customers helps them immensely to get to grips with a new instrument and never do they think this to be wasted time.

[Mr. Scram]

Yep all that.

Of the Teks (CRO's and DSO's), HP's Telequipment, Philips, BWD, Atten, Siglent and yes Rigol I've used the variance in UI is immense just to do the same thing ! 
That modern equipment all have deeper menu structures can make them harder to use, not just because of substantially more functionality but mostly hidden menu controls whereas they were once all on the front panel.
Each piece of equipment takes precious time to learn and the buyer of any new brand must be aware if this as it can dramatically impact on productivity until familiarity and muscle memory builds to help out.
A little time one on one spent with customers helps them immensely to get to grips with a new instrument and never do they think this to be wasted time.

You're right. People who own a Rigol now should only upgrade to another Rigol. Siglents would confuse them and would mean a waste of time. Considering the popularity of the DS1054Z video it's probably best if everyone buys a Rigol. That's what people are already familiar with after all.

[tautech]

Yep all that.

Of the Teks (CRO's and DSO's), HP's Telequipment, Philips, BWD, Atten, Siglent and yes Rigol I've used the variance in UI is immense just to do the same thing ! 
That modern equipment all have deeper menu structures can make them harder to use, not just because of substantially more functionality but mostly hidden menu controls whereas they were once all on the front panel.
Each piece of equipment takes precious time to learn and the buyer of any new brand must be aware if this as it can dramatically impact on productivity until familiarity and muscle memory builds to help out.
A little time one on one spent with customers helps them immensely to get to grips with a new instrument and never do they think this to be wasted time.

You're right.

Really, for once you see the logic in the above ?

People who own a Rigol now should only upgrade to another Rigol. Siglents would confuse them and would mean a waste of time.

Yes of course unless they want decent FFT, FRA, MSO, AWG, webrowser or Wifi capabilities.

It is NEVER as simple as some might make it out to be ! 

[Mr. Scram]

Really, for once you see the logic in the above ?

Yes of course unless they want decent FFT, FRA, MSO, AWG, webrowser or Wifi capabilities.

It is NEVER as simple as some might make it out to be ! 

Correct. If you want the relevant bits of those you'd opt for a Keysight oscilloscope instead of a Rigol. That's why Siglent made sure it was "inspired" by Keysight equipment. It facilitates that comfortable transition when people are done with amateur kit.

[tautech]

Really, for once you see the logic in the above ?

Yes of course unless they want decent FFT, FRA, MSO, AWG, webrowser or Wifi capabilities.

It is NEVER as simple as some might make it out to be ! 

Correct. If you want the relevant bits of those you'd opt for a Keysight oscilloscope instead of a Rigol. That's why Siglent made sure it was "inspired" by Keysight equipment. It facilitates that comfortable transition when people are done with amateur kit.

And at what price point ?

That line of thinking isn’t even relevant for this $500 limit thread.

[Mr. Scram]

And at what price point ?

That line of thinking isn’t even relevant for this $500 limit thread.

About $500 gets you a Keysight 1000X with a surprising amount of 2000X and even 3000T features. No problem if that's too much. Back to the comfortable familiarity of the Rigol kit we go.

[Fungus]

Correct. If you want the relevant bits of those you'd opt for a Keysight oscilloscope instead of a Rigol. That's why Siglent made sure it was "inspired" by Keysight equipment. It facilitates that comfortable transition when people are done with amateur kit.

And at what price point ?

The step from a Siglent to a Keysight is about the same as the step from a Rigol DS1054Z to a Siglent.

You'd think a Siglent dealer would know that. 

With the Keysight you actually will get a "snappy" user interface and some decent processing power, too.

Note that it's two analog channels and one digital channel ("2+1") so you can decode SPI, no problem.


PS: You can also get the "edu" version for less than $500 and mod it to a full Keysight DSOX1102X. It's not a mod for the faint-hearted though.

[tv84]

And don't try to argue price, price apparently doesn't matter, that is the entire "squabble" here isn't it?

No! Price is precisely the point!

You can look at the hundreds of threads like this, in this forum, and you'll see that, in the end, all scopes that have been discussed do the job that the OPs require.

So, if you can do the job with less buy the cheaper that does the job. If you want one that may someday be used in a unicorn situation, and are willing to spend that money, then go that way.

This is all about bang for the bucks, and all these scopes have aprox. the same bang for the bucks ratio!!

If you want more bang, then add more bucks. If the bang is enough, stop there!

In case of doubts, go for the KS UXR and it should get you covered.

PS: Definitely, this should be a sticky!

[Fungus]

I mean since Rigol scopes belong in a dumpster, even tho they more than do the job but aren't as nice as Siglent's. Doesn't Siglent belong in a dumpster next to these brands? So why would I bother with a middle ground? If I'm going all in, I might as well go ALL IN. And don't try to argue price, price apparently doesn't matter, that is the entire "squabble" here isn't it?

Yep. Any argument that "spending a bit more is always worth it in the long run" should lead you to buying a $670 Keysight, not a $500 Siglent.

If you can afford the Siglent there's no reason why you can't afford the Keysight and the Keysight makes the Siglent look like a toy (plus it has way better support, etc).

[Fungus]

In case of doubts, go for the KS UXR and it should get you covered.

PS: Definitely, this should be a sticky!

Yep.

You want to see four wiggly lines and do some basic decoding? Get a Rigol.

You want to go further and do some real signal analysis or extended decoding then the Keysight is the way to go. It's ASIC based and has the processing power to do it properly.

As far as number of channels goes? I think I could probably live with the Keysight 2+1 system (two analog, one digital).

[BillB]

No! Price is precisely the point!

I agree entirely. Bang for buck. It's the fud and hyperbole that people in this thread are throwing around about Rigol belonging in a dumpster that I take issue with.

The OP wants to know if the Rigol DS1054Z is still a good option in 2019. And the answer is just yes. It is. For it's price right now, in 2019, it is still an amazing bang for buck.
If you have a little extra get the Siglent SDS1104X-E. But the rhetoric here that Rigol shouldn't even be considered and that Siglent is the entry level I just find off putting. Esspecially since it simply isn't true.
...I will spend weeks researching and looking up information about test equipment I am interesting in having at home. Price does matter.
I'm annoyed because it's this sort of squabbling that has wasted hours of my time when trying to sort out what to get.

that adds up to a significant saving in personal hobbyist time, something we are always short of to pursue our interests.

 

You could ask Dave to refund your price of admission if you think you aren't getting value from these posts?    

Seriously, the OP's question was effectively answered by post 7 or 8.  Valid points were raised regarding the OPs brand familiarity, budget, and future requirements.  Counterpoints were raised and the usual pissing contest ensued.  If this theme bothers you, prepare to be disappointed with every other "What thing should I buy?" thread on the entirety of the internet.

There are a lot of extremely knowledgeable posters here with a lot of professional experience that provide valuable insight into the nuances of using this gear.  At the same time, everyone eventually develops brand loyalty just by usage and familiarity alone.  Some features are more important to some than others, etc.

I don't think anyone here said that Rigol belongs in the dumpster for home/hobby use.  Some implied that it might not be a good choice for a professional setting.  Some countered.  Some stirred the pot (myself included  )   

Welcome to the internet.