Author Topic: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?  (Read 46650 times)

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Offline tv84

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2020, 09:36:30 am »
Yes. Options can't be removed individually.

What happens when you insert DSEA after having inserted DSER?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #101 on: January 10, 2020, 10:06:13 am »
Yes. Options can't be removed individually.
What happens when you insert DSEA after having inserted DSER?

I'm guessing "nothing", but you could always try it and see...  :popcorn:
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #102 on: January 10, 2020, 10:43:05 am »
I haven't tried it but I understand, as Fungus says, that you can only remove all options and then add the ones you want after that.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #103 on: January 10, 2020, 11:40:17 am »
Yes. Options can't be removed individually.

What happens when you insert DSEA after having inserted DSER?

Just tried it -- all functions stay enabled. So, apparently, the "options installation editor" accessible from the menu of the scope only permits setting the corresponding bits in the device configuration while clearing them is only possible via the :SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall SCPI command.

I'm sure this has been tried before since the DS1000Z hacking history is sooo long...  ;)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #104 on: January 10, 2020, 11:43:07 am »
Remember that options are available for purchase separately, each with a key.

Removing other options when you install a new one makes no sense.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #105 on: January 10, 2020, 11:55:21 am »
Remember that options are available for purchase separately, each with a key.

Removing other options when you install a new one makes no sense.

Sure, but creating a license to ONLY upgrade the BW-bit with other bits-enabled also makes no sense.

So, the scheme they devised is not completely logical but it is their scheme. We just needed to adapt.

One thing is certain: makes life easier when licensing all options in one shot. Like a -fullopt.   :)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #106 on: January 10, 2020, 12:03:49 pm »
Sure, but creating a license to ONLY upgrade the BW-bit with other bits-enabled also makes no sense.

Where are you getting "bits" from? The codes don't contain binary bits.
 

Offline tv84

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Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2020, 12:15:13 pm »
Well maybe it uses a logical OR operation after decoding. 

Remember: The bandwidth upgrade isn't a purchasable option so who knows. :-//
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 12:16:57 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline tv84

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2020, 12:28:41 pm »
Those bits (that form the "options" DSER, DSEA, etc) are then spread over a binary string (including S/N, etc) which is then signed and obfuscated. The typical way of almost all Rigol's licenses.

This is what I was referring as "encoding".
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2020, 12:52:19 pm »
Quote
DSFR - 00011 10000 00101 01111 - All options including 500uV/div

My question is what are the other bits for, the ones that are still on 0 when enabling all the DS1054Z options?  Do they enable anything, or are for the MSO or maybe for bigger models only?

My hope is to enable more decoders, e.g. CAN, or maybe faster sweeping time  ;D

Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2020, 01:03:05 pm »
My hope is to enable more decoders, e.g. CAN, or maybe faster sweeping time  ;D

Maybe it has a 500MHz option.  :popcorn:
 

Offline tv84

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2020, 03:38:34 pm »
I heard Eye-diagram was coming!   :-DD

All old Rigol equipments used these 20 bits format for their options mapping. It had sufficient space for evolution in all equipments but, definitely, not all bits were ever used. This was extensively researched in the old days (riglol/rigup).

So there is no more options than all that are already known.

The 20 bits (4 alphabet letters) are also usually represented in a 5-char hex number (usually it's this hex-number that is visible in the application source code). Rigol does this conversion 4 * 5 bits = 5 * 4 bits.
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #113 on: January 10, 2020, 05:12:52 pm »
Sure, but creating a license to ONLY upgrade the BW-bit with other bits-enabled also makes no sense.

Where are you getting "bits" from? The codes don't contain binary bits.

To work out the option code, use the following bit-to-code conversion table:

A = 00000     J = 01000     S = 10000     2 = 11000
B = 00001     K = 01001     T = 10001     3 = 11001
C = 00010     L = 01010     U = 10010     4 = 11010
D = 00011     M = 01011     V = 10011     5 = 11011
E = 00100     N = 01100     W = 10100     6 = 11100
F = 00101     P = 01101     X = 10101     7 = 11101
G = 00110     Q = 01110     Y = 10110     8 = 11110
H = 00111     R = 01111     Z = 10111     9 = 11111



Quote
DSFR - 00011 10000 00101 01111 - All options including 500uV/div

My question is what are the other bits for, the ones that are still on 0 when enabling all the DS1054Z options?  Do they enable anything, or are for the MSO or maybe for bigger models only?

My hope is to enable more decoders, e.g. CAN, or maybe faster sweeping time  ;D
The other bits 'do nothing'.  No other options. 
Search the huge "Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus" thread.

The MSO1000Z is a different animal, has different option bits, and a special Riglol version:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol_s-internal-i2c-bus/msg929896/#msg929896

(CSAR = 0x1C001) Triggers
(CSAB = 0x1C002) Decoders
(CSA3 = 0x1C004) Mem-depth
(CSAJ = 0x1C008) Recorder
(CSAS = 0x1C010) DG
(CSRA = 0x1C020) 500uV
(CSBA = 0x1C040) Power Ana.
(CS3A = 0x1C080) Bandwidth (100MHz)
(CSHY = 0x1C0FF) All

I don't know where he came up with the bit encoding here for the MSO.


My hope is to enable more decoders, e.g. CAN, or maybe faster sweeping time  ;D

Maybe it has a 500MHz option.  :popcorn:
The DSO/MSO1000z models only have 50MHz, 75MHz and 100MHz versions.
Dave did a teardown and the front-end is 100MHz with low pass filters for the lower bandwidth models.
 

Offline Odd

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2020, 11:20:48 pm »
My is unlocked but still at software 00.04.04.SP3
at https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/ I see newest is 00.04.04.04.03 , but release notes does not mention "SP3" , how does that translate ? 

« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:24:53 pm by Odd »
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2020, 04:39:03 am »
My is unlocked but still at software 00.04.04.SP3
at https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/ I see newest is 00.04.04.04.03 , but release notes does not mention "SP3" , how does that translate ?

To check the firmware version:
  Normally, press UTILITY -> SYSTEM -> SYSTEM INFO in the “MENU” buttons group.

But to check the full software details (undocumented):
  Quickly press buttons MENU -> MENU -> FORCE -> MENU on “TRIGGER” buttons group (right side of scope),
  Then go to info panel by pressing buttons UTILITY -> SYSTEM -> SYSTEM INFO in the “MENU” buttons group.

[attachimg=1]
 
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Offline pman0702

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2020, 12:39:33 pm »
hello,
i have rigol ds1054Z on its way to my home, and i bought it with all options unlocked except BW 100MHz.
I read the forum and know how to activate it, but have one question.
If i want to restore it on its original state like it was from the first day- all options unlocked but with 50MHz what should i do ?
I am asking it in case if i need to send it for repair .

thanks in advance
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2020, 02:37:01 pm »
hello,
i have rigol ds1054Z on its way to my home, and i bought it with all options unlocked except BW 100MHz.
I read the forum and know how to activate it, but have one question.
If i want to restore it on its original state like it was from the first day- all options unlocked but with 50MHz what should i do ?
I am asking it in case if i need to send it for repair .

thanks in advance

You would have to uninstall all options via an SCPI command, then reinstall the "legal" ones by generating the right key via Riglol. There are various posts here describing the details; search the forum for for "SYST:OPT:UNINST".
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2020, 06:29:51 pm »
hello,
i have rigol ds1054Z on its way to my home, and i bought it with all options unlocked except BW 100MHz.
I read the forum and know how to activate it, but have one question.
If i want to restore it on its original state like it was from the first day- all options unlocked but with 50MHz what should i do ?
I am asking it in case if i need to send it for repair .

thanks in advance

You would have to uninstall all options via an SCPI command, then reinstall the "legal" ones by generating the right key via Riglol. There are various posts here describing the details; search the forum for for "SYST:OPT:UNINST".

Along the lines of uninstalling options...
  - I purchased my DS1074Z (70MHz) scope in Feb 2014.
  - Throughout all the discussions I have read here, I have never seen how the scope determines if it is a 50MHz or 70MHz version.  The option bits I have seen only allow you to select the 100MHz option.
  - I'm curious if anyone knows if there is a 70MHz option?  Not that I would ever go back.



As far as uninstalling all hacked options in order to send the scope back to Rigol.  If the scope is in a state that it needs to be sent back to Rigol for repair, it IS UNLIKELY that you will be able to uninstall any options.  (i.e. the scope is broken). 

I believe Rigol is now selling the DS1054Z with ALL options except the 100MHz enabled.

Also from what others have said and the fact that Rigol has not made any effort into blocking the hack, I do not believe they care if it is hacked or not.  I would imagine at this point that they expect it to be hacked.  Has anyone here returned their scope for repair?  What options were enabled when you got it back?

Just unlock the 100MHz option and do not worry about it.
 

Offline pman0702

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2020, 06:51:44 pm »
hello,
i have rigol ds1054Z on its way to my home, and i bought it with all options unlocked except BW 100MHz.
I read the forum and know how to activate it, but have one question.
If i want to restore it on its original state like it was from the first day- all options unlocked but with 50MHz what should i do ?
I am asking it in case if i need to send it for repair .


thanks in advance

You would have to uninstall all options via an SCPI command, then reinstall the "legal" ones by generating the right key via Riglol. There are various posts here describing the details; search the forum for for "SYST:OPT:UNINST".

Along the lines of uninstalling options...
  - I purchased my DS1074Z (70MHz) scope in Feb 2014.
  - Throughout all the discussions I have read here, I have never seen how the scope determines if it is a 50MHz or 70MHz version.  The option bits I have seen only allow you to select the 100MHz option.
  - I'm curious if anyone knows if there is a 70MHz option?  Not that I would ever go back.



As far as uninstalling all hacked options in order to send the scope back to Rigol.  If the scope is in a state that it needs to be sent back to Rigol for repair, it IS UNLIKELY that you will be able to uninstall any options.  (i.e. the scope is broken). 

I believe Rigol is now selling the DS1054Z with ALL options except the 100MHz enabled.

Also from what others have said and the fact that Rigol has not made any effort into blocking the hack, I do not believe they care if it is hacked or not.  I would imagine at this point that they expect it to be hacked.  Has anyone here returned their scope for repair?  What options were enabled when you got it back?

Just unlock the 100MHz option and do not worry about it.


i assume if i have all options unlocked except 500uV and 100MHz that it doesn't metter if i apply DSEA or DSER key.
Also i noticed that my firmware vesion is SP4 although on official rigol site latest firmware is SP3?
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2020, 09:57:55 pm »
i assume if i have all options unlocked except 500uV and 100MHz that it doesn't metter if i apply DSEA or DSER key.
Also i noticed that my firmware vesion is SP4 although on official rigol site latest firmware is SP3?

I would get a key for all options except 500uV (i.e. DSER) in case you ever want to
uninstall everything, you can get everything back at one time.

Firmware version 00.04.04.04.03 is the same as 00.04.04.SP4.
The short version does NOT show the last group.
 

Offline pman0702

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2020, 10:22:37 pm »
i assume if i have all options unlocked except 500uV and 100MHz that it doesn't metter if i apply DSEA or DSER key.
Also i noticed that my firmware vesion is SP4 although on official rigol site latest firmware is SP3?

I would get a key for all options except 500uV (i.e. DSER) in case you ever want to
uninstall everything, you can get everything back at one time.


Firmware version 00.04.04.04.03 is the same as 00.04.04.SP4.
The short version does NOT show the last group.


thank you very much...
this explanation regarding fw version was helpful.
one more noob question- "in case you ever want to
uninstall everything, you can get everything back at one time."
does this mean that in case i uninstall everything i will uninstalled only BW option  since i had everything unlocked except BW option originally ?

thanks once again.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2020, 10:47:27 pm »
In service, nobody cares what options are already installed or not.

You can make it appear as you wish, with or without option, all at once or one by one, but that's irrelevant.

If. let's say, the oscilloscope dies and doesn't work anymore, it doesn't matter how to revert settings, because you won't be able to power it, anyway?  ;D

Offline Fungus

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2020, 07:41:33 am »
does this mean that in case i uninstall everything i will uninstalled only BW option  since i had everything unlocked except BW option originally ?

No. There's only one "uninstall" command and it removes all options.
 

Offline pman0702

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Re: is Rigol DS1054Z still hackable ?
« Reply #124 on: January 24, 2020, 08:39:59 am »
thank you all for your answers and tips !
 


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