EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: IO390 on November 06, 2013, 06:34:06 pm
-
Hi there,
My first post on this forum, so hi to everyone from the UK. Anyway, I am looking at getting a new scope. Up until now, I've been using my father's Tektronix 2465B. I want something of the same capability, IE 4 channels and 400MHz, as well as the really useful digital functions, and the same sort of price range. The SS-7840 seems to look about right.
Anyway, I can't seem to find any reviews or thoughts on the SS-7840. Is it so exceptionally terrible that no one uses it? Does anyone here know anything about it?
Thanks in advance,
IO
-
I assume you are buying it used, do you?
If you can get if for a good quote, take it. It is a nice scope.
I would tend more to a real digital scope but only as I do a lot of digital stuff. If you do analog stuff, the Iwatsu is quite usable.
-
Thanks for the advice. Yes, I plan to get a second hand scope. The reason for this is that I really can't stand cheaper digital scope LCDs for very long. I have a 4 channel Tek that is fully digitsl, but I can't say I like it very much. The scopes with CRTs but which have some digital features are my favourite. It's old of course so reliability might be an issue, but I can't seem to find any comments on it, hence my asking here.
IO
-
The disadvantage of these Japanese scopes is that you almost never get any spare parts or even schematics or detailed manuals. If this breaks down, you are often lost.
From this perspective it would be better to get a decent used analog scope from Agilent / HP or Tektronix.
There you will find everything you need and you will find plenty of hel and hints on the web and misc. forums.
-
I'll bear that in mind. Do you have any practical experience with this scope?
-
From this perspective it would be better to get a decent used analog scope from Agilent / HP or Tektronix.
There you will find everything you need and you will find plenty of hel and hints on the web and misc. forums.
How about Philips/Fluke CRT-scopes with digital features? I've used several of these Philips/Fluke scopes back in the 90's, but haven't used on for a long time.
I've seen schematics for Philips/Fluke scopes too, but haven't used one for a long time.
The Philips scopes changed name to Fluke, when Fluke took over Philips' testing and measuring device division back in 1993. But I don't think Fluke makes any desktop scopes anymore, only the portable ScopeMeter. But Fluke's ScopeMeter came to life because of Fluke's partnership with Philips,before Fluke eventually bought Philip's division.
I've also seen schematics for Hameg scopes.
And schematics for Japanese scopes from Hitachi. I once used a 100 MHz Hitachi CRT-scope with digital features at work, which I really liked, I think it was a 100 MHz Hitachi V 1565.
-
Thanks for the advice, Anders.
Yes, I have looked at the Phillips/Fluke scopes. I really like the Phillips PM3323, that looks like a beautiful scope. They are a bit out of my budget though.
I haven't looked at the Hitachi scopes, but from a quick google search, the V1565 certainly looks nice, although it is only 2 channel.
Doing my best here not to sound like one of those people who says 'I want this and this for cheap as chips', I realise you get what you pay for.
I am looking at some HP scopes too. Can anyone recommend an HP analogue scope with digital features that's around $400?
IO
-
I haven't looked at the Hitachi scopes, but from a quick google search, the V1565 certainly looks nice, although it is only 2 channel.
There's a 4-channel model of the same scope named V-1585.
There's also older and newer 4-channel models with different model names.
I think the 2- and 4-channel 100 MHz models before before V-1565 / V-1585 were named V-1065 / V-1085. You can find pictures of them all if you google them. They look very similar.
Edit: I just found the operation manual online for the following Hitachi Models all in one manual:
V-1585, V-1565, V-695, V-1085, V-1065A, V-665A, V-1560, V-1060, V-660.
So it looks they are all part of the same generation and series.
You can download the manual in two RAR parts here, so you can compare the models yourself:
Part 1: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=31141 (http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=31141)
Part 2: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=31142 (http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=31142)
Maybe you should also consider LeCroy? That's an American brand too like Tektronix and HP/Agilent. I have only experience from an extremely expensive 500 MHz 4-channel LeCroy in the early 90's. Back when a 500 MHz scopes were still extremely expensive. That was the first scope I ever saw with 4 different colours, 1 for each channel. It cost around 100,000 USD back then IIRC.
Hameg that I also mentioned is a German brand.
-
Thanks for the manuals and everything, I've got plenty to look around for :)
Yes, I know LeCroy, but haven't looked at any of their analogue stuff. I will take a look at that too.
-
The disadvantage of these Japanese scopes is that you almost never get any spare parts or even schematics or detailed manuals. If this breaks down, you are often lost.
From this perspective it would be better to get a decent used analog scope from Agilent / HP or Tektronix.
With some searching you can find the manuals for Iwatsu scopes as well. They re-use most of the same design anyway.
I have owned several Iwatsu scopes (including the SS-7840H) and they are very nice to work with. Lecroy's analog scopes are rebadged Iwatsu scopes. Last but not least the SS-7840 is much younger than the 2465B.
-
Thanks nctnico.
I would really like the 7840, but availability is a real issue in this case. There is a SS-5710 up for sale in Scotland, so that's good for me. It's also 4 channel and will suit my needs nicely, however I don't want to have to sacrifice the digital features unless I really have to.
IO
-
Does Hitachi still make scopes? If so, what's their scope website, couldn't seem to find any?
How many Japanese scope manufactures are there left bedsides these:
Iwatsu http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html (http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html)
Texio (former Kenwood TMI): http://www.texio.co.jp/en/index.html (http://www.texio.co.jp/en/index.html)
Yokogawa http://tmi.yokogawa.com (http://tmi.yokogawa.com)
Anyone else?
Kikusui used to make scopes too, but it looks like they only make power supplies, electronics loads, multimeters, signal generators etc. now: http://www.kikusui.co.jp/en/product/index.html (http://www.kikusui.co.jp/en/product/index.html)
Sony once had a 50-50 joint venture scope business with Tektronix: http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=11047 (http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=11047)
For many years Tektronix operated as Sony-Tektronix, a 50-50 joint venture of Tektronix and Sony Corporation, due to Japanes trade restriction at this time. Later Tektronix could buy Sony's share, and is now the sole owner of the Japanese operation.
I'm not very familiar with Japanese scopes, besides Hitachi. Japanese scopes seems to be quite rare here.
I don't get the impression they have a very big market share outside Asia?
I've don't think I've ever seen anyone using a Kenwood/Texio, Iwatsu or Yokogawa scopes. But if Iwatsu makes LeCroy's analog scopes as mentioned and also did in the 90's, then I've used a very nice big and heavy USD 100,000 4-channel color 500 MHz LeCroy in the 90's, without being aware it was an Iwatsu.
And how about Korean oscilloscopes? Does GoldStar/LG Precision still make scopes? And are there any other Korean scope manufacturers, e.g. Samsung?
-
Have you had a look at this website? http://www.theoscilloscopeshop.com (http://www.theoscilloscopeshop.com)
A extensive list with many past and present oscilloscope brands and links to eBay auctions for new and used oscilloscopes. Sorted by brand or scope category:
Manufacturers
AEMC
Agilent
Atten
Beckman Industrial
BK Precision
BWD
Extech
EZ Digital
Fluke
Goldstar
Gould
GW Instek
Hameg
Hantek
Hitachi
Iwatsu
Kenwood
Kikusui
Leader
LeCroy
LG Precision
Nicolet
OTC
Owon
Philips
PicoScope
Protek
Rigol
Sencore
Siglent
Snap-on
Sony
Tektronix
Tenma
Uni-Trend
Velleman
Yokogawa
Also sorting by these categories:
Oscilloscopes
Analog
Digital
Digital Sampling
Digital Storage (DSO)
Dual Beam
Dual Trace
Mixed Domain (MDO)
Mixed Signal (MSO)
PC Based
Portable & Handheld
Real-Time
-
A extensive list with many past and present oscilloscope brands and links to eBay auctions for new and used oscilloscopes.
One quite common brand missing from list is UK based Telequipment that was acquired by Tektronix. Even some early Teks where made by or from Telequipment parts.
-
Iwatsu are good scopes. The service manuals can be found on internet, for instance at Elektro Tanya (http://elektrotanya.com/ (http://elektrotanya.com/)). They have the service manual for SS-5710 and many other models (and for many other type of products). If you cannot find it on internet, it is possible to get it directly from Iwatsu. But maybe it's good idea communicate in Japanese to get their attention. And they are a little expensive.
I have an Iwatsu SS-6122. Its design is very similar to SS-5711 but with added functions like cursor, counter, text, and so. Retro design with more modern functions! (maybe not so modern anymore...) Check it out here, I think it's really cool: http://amp8.com/etc/annai/jpeg/ss6122.jpg (http://amp8.com/etc/annai/jpeg/ss6122.jpg)
-
How about Philips/Fluke CRT-scopes with digital features? I've used several of these Philips/Fluke scopes back in the 90's, but haven't used on for a long time.
I've seen schematics for Philips/Fluke scopes too, but haven't used one for a long time.
I have a bench Fluke/Philips PM3384 combiscope. I bough it (second hand) because it does both analog and digital, and has 4 channels which can be quite useful for uC related stuff. Though it can do the things for which I bought it for, I do have mixed feelings about it:- It uses buttons where most scope would use knobs instead. Personally I prefer knobs over buttons.
- It responds sluggish to user input. That applies also to the few functions for which it actually has knobs; when you turn the knobs it takes a while to see the effect, if at all.
- Its menu system isn't exactly great
- It has a fan that gets quite noisy after a while.
- It is big (very deep) especially compared to the modern digital scopes, you'd better have a lot of space on your bench.
- In digital mode the signal seems to be quite noisy, even when the input is set to GND. I don't know if this is normal for this model or specific to my unit, but I have seen someone else complaining about the same thing here on this forum.
- Service manual (with schematic diagram) is available on the net. However many parts in it appear to be of the unobtanium type. If it breaks down I have little hope I'll be able to repair it.
- Its specifications, especially the digital part, aren't exactly impressive compared to contemporary digital scopes.
I've also seen schematics for Hameg scopes.
I also have a Hameg HM408 analog+digital scope. I bought the Fluke scope with the intention to replace this scope, but I decided to keep the Hameg for a while longer. The Hameg is feature- and spec wise a much less capable scope than the Fluke. However I find the Hameg much more enjoyable to work with since it doesn't have many of the downsides listed above. If I have a job the can be handled by the Hameg I tend to grab that one instead of the Fluke. The manual with schematics for this scope can be downloaded from the Hameg website. The scope itself consists mostly of pretty standard (nineties vintage) components. Unfortunately many circuit boards in this scope are difficult to access, so while repairing it may be possible (I have had to it a couple of times myself) it isn't going to be very enjoyable.
If you are primarily interested in the digital/storage aspect and/or decide to buy/keep an analog scope, I would seriously consider a modern digital scope (Rigol and the likes).
-
Does Hitachi still make scopes? If so, what's their scope website, couldn't seem to find any?
How many Japanese scope manufactures are there left bedsides these:
Iwatsu http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html (http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html)
Texio (former Kenwood TMI): http:/
(http://www.texio.co.jp/en/index.html)
Texio only sells rebranded GW Instek scopes. :palm: :palm: LOL
http://www.texio.co.jp/en/03prod_01_03_00.html (http://www.texio.co.jp/en/03prod_01_03_00.html)
-
Does Hitachi still make scopes? If so, what's their scope website, couldn't seem to find any?
How many Japanese scope manufactures are there left bedsides these:
Iwatsu http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html (http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/index_e.html)
Texio (former Kenwood TMI): http:/
(http://www.texio.co.jp/en/index.html)
Texio only sells rebranded GW Instek scopes. :palm: :palm: LOL
http://www.texio.co.jp/en/03prod_01_03_00.html (http://www.texio.co.jp/en/03prod_01_03_00.html)
So no more Texio/Kenwood TMI designed scopes then I guess.
They still sell some Texio/Kenwood TMI designed power supplies though.
According to Texio's website Good Will Instrument Co., Ltd. [a.k.a. GW Instek] is now the owner of Texio:
Company: http://www.texio.co.jp/en/02comp_02.html (http://www.texio.co.jp/en/02comp_02.html)
Shareholder Good Will Instrument Co., Ltd.
History: http://www.texio.co.jp/en/02comp_03.html (http://www.texio.co.jp/en/02comp_03.html)
2012
...Established TEXIO TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION affiliated of GOOD WILL INSTRUMENTS CO.,LTD
Power supply and electric measuring instruments business have been transferred to TEXIO TECHNOLOGY from NIKKE TECHNO SYSTEM...
There's a lot of rebadged scopes sold by different brands. Even high end brands like LeCroy and Agilent sells rebadged scopes.
Agilent sells rebadged entry level DSOs from Rigol.
LeCroy sells rebadged Iwatsu analog scopes according to nctnico's post above and entry level DSOs from Siglent.
-
LeCroy used to sell Iwatsu analog scopes in past. Nowadays LeCroy sells rebranded Siglent as WaveAce series http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=402 (http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=402)
and Iwatsu as WaveJet series. http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=50 (http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=50)
-
Thanks for all the replies.
There was plenty of choice in the USA, but I don't trust any normal shipping company with a CRT scope, so a courier would be the only option. That would cost about the same as a scope almost.
I settled on a SS-5710 that I got from the UK for £125 delivered, so real nice and cheap. Quad channel so will be fine for me, although no digital features like the other scopes I was originally looking at, but that's fine. The other scopes need fancy probes for the digital readouts (so I'm told), and they are pretty pricey.
IO