Author Topic: JBC CD-1BQE  (Read 3461 times)

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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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JBC CD-1BQE
« on: June 04, 2019, 11:51:44 am »
After watching Dave's Soldering Iron Power Delivery video I decided to buy a new JBC CD-1BQE soldering station.  I own a Hakko FX951 which is nice but, like the 888D, it has the issue that it can't keep up with high heat-sink soldering jobs.  For a long time, I've owned and used an Aoyue 2900 soldering station with the tips that plug into the handle and this has worked OK but the build quality of the Aoyue is poor to say the least, the elements have intermittent contact in the handle which I solve by twisting them around but, whenever this happens, the base unit beeps loudly. The plastic cover over the buttons keeps coming off but the heat performance of the Aoyue is the only thing I have that works for parts like large SMT power transistors that I have designed heatsink vias onto the PCB for and I'd like a better tool for that role.

The Aoyue seems to be no longer available so, given that this is a tool of my trade, I decided to order the JCB which was a brand I wasn't even aware existed until I saw Dave's video and, at $500 for the JBC 1BQE + 3 tips (C245001, C245030, and  C245061) from Tequipment.net (with the eevblog discount) it's VERY expensive IMHO.  Hope I'm going to like it.

If I weren't so busy, I'd design a replacement base unit for the $74 T210 handle as an open source project; from this thread it seems the design of the JBC base unit isn't that good.

Once my new JCB soldering station arrives, I'll let you know what I think.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 12:03:31 pm »
I will be the first of the fanboys to pop up.  You could have gotten a used Metcal MX-500 with a tip for about half that price.  You can solder 2 1962 Volkswagon bumpers together with it.  OK, so maybe I exaggerate a bit. ;D  The MX-500 is production grade, will last forever, no knob fiddling and can easily solder anything you need to.  Hope you enjoy the JBC.  I also have a FX-951 which I bought before the Metcal.  I looked at JBC but it was too rich for my blood at the time and it didn't come with tips so I got the Hakko and 5 tips with tip holders for quite a bit less.
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Offline martin1454

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 12:13:22 pm »
Nice! im also looking into buying a CD-2BQE soon - Just awating for the right discount

It is pricey, but after playing a bit around with one of those, a weller WX1 and a metcal, I prefer the JBC -

let me know if you design that tool stand :)
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 12:44:06 pm »
Hmmm, if you go to banggood.com and search for "T12", you get a bunch of cheap 24V irons that use what look like clones of a Hakko tip in the $25 to $50 range.  The user reviews are pretty good; has anyone tried any of these?
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 12:50:29 pm »
I bought one of these JBC clones and it works well but I didn't need to ! After watching Defpoms video of the KSGER Hakko fx951 replacement controller it is by far a better controller than the original Hakko controller and has the ability to accurately calibrate each tip which no other iron controller offers !













 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2019, 01:00:18 pm »
Damn, looks like I just spent $450 more than I needed to :(

[EDIT] I was able to cancel the order.  Tequipment.net are just great to deal with.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 01:08:46 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
 

Offline exe

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2019, 01:33:01 pm »
Damn, looks like I just spent $450 more than I needed to :(

[EDIT] I was able to cancel the order.  Tequipment.net are just great to deal with.

What are you going to buy? T12 clone? If so, there is a recent thread comparing it to other soldering stations: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/t12-clone-vs-metcal-sp200/  (unfortunately it turned into bike-sheding).

I have ksger for about two years. For the price the performance is great, but I struggled with lead-free stuff. The thread above suggests there are better soldering stations. I'd say if you do lead-free it's worth getting a better station, but not sure which one. There are not that many reviews with convincing benchmarks.
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 02:20:34 pm »
Damn, looks like I just spent $450 more than I needed to :(

[EDIT] I was able to cancel the order.  Tequipment.net are just great to deal with.

What are you going to buy? T12 clone? If so, there is a recent thread comparing it to other soldering stations: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/t12-clone-vs-metcal-sp200/  (unfortunately it turned into bike-sheding).

I have ksger for about two years. For the price the performance is great, but I struggled with lead-free stuff. The thread above suggests there are better soldering stations. I'd say if you do lead-free it's worth getting a better station, but not sure which one. There are not that many reviews with convincing benchmarks.

This is a good point as all of my investigations have been done with leaded solder only as most of my rework and repairs will be done using leaded solder. It would be good to compare it with unleaded solder. Perhaps the JBC and the clone with its maximum power of 120 watts may win out over the Hakko T12.

cheers

 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »
I'm thinking the KSGER T12 from Banggood, I watched DEFPOM's EQUALIZOR's video and it looks awfully good for the money; around $100 should get me a unit with a load of tips and an iron holder, maybe even the aluminum or stainless steel handle. If I also bought a calibrator, I could perform the calibration that DEFPOM demos.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 10:01:56 am by Gandalf_Sr »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 02:22:56 pm »
At $270 for the JBC clone from Jabe, I might as well buy the actual JBC unit.  How many watts is the KSGER T12 unit? [EDIT 1] It seems it's 70W [EDIT 2] the v2.1S hardware may be as much as 120W (24V x 5A) PSU.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 06:22:10 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 03:40:37 pm »
OK, call me cheap if you want but...

I just ordered the following from Banggood...
- KSGER V2.1S T12 Digital Temperature Controller Soldering Station Electric Soldering Iron Tips T12-K + 9501 Handle
- KSGER NEW Type STM32 OLED T12 Soldering Handle Digital Temperature Controller Electric Soldering Irons Handle Metal DIY Set
- 10pcs T12 Soldering Iron Tips Set for HAKKO FX951 FX952 (T12-k T12-BC2 T12-BL T12-BC1 T12-BC3 T12-ILS T12-D16 T12-KU T12-D12 T12-J02)
- DANIU FG-100 Soldering Iron Tip Thermometer Temperature Detector Tester 0-700℃
- KSGER Soldering Iron Stand Holder Iron Tip Clean Ball Electric Iron Rosewood Soldering Iron

And the whole lot was about $115 with shipping; the actual KSGER V2.1S is coming from the US, the rest from China.  The AL handle is also a kit but I figured that it would be OK to understand how that goes together and I get a plastic handle with the main unit anyway.
 

Offline exe

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 05:15:39 pm »
I think ksger is a lot of value for money anyway. Another point is, unless you do a lot of soldering, you don't really need the best soldering station all the time. The difference in performance most of the time is not noticeable.

Also, when soldering big polygons, I think it's OK to raise the temperature. It may not be acceptable for production, but for single assembly/repairement you don't need 100% compliance with industry standards, etc. Just get things done with tools you have.
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 01:56:09 am »
At $270 for the JBC clone from Jabe, I might as well buy the actual JBC unit.  How many watts is the KSGER T12 unit? [EDIT 1] It seems it's 70W [EDIT 2] the v2.1S hardware may be as much as 120W (24V x 5A) PSU.

I got mine from aliexpress for about $178 before I found out about the KSGER. But from what others have said I may still need it for lead free soldering ;)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Jabe-UD-1200-Precision-Lead-free-Soldering-Station-Smart-2-5S-Rapid-Heating-with-Dual-Channel/32957504908.html
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 02:44:05 am »
I'm thinking the KSGER T12 from Banggood, I watched DEFPOM's videos and it looks awfully good for the money; around $100 should get me a unit with a load of tips and an iron holder, maybe even the aluminum or stainless steel handle. If I also bought a calibrator, I could perform the calibration that DEFPOM demos.

I got two of them now with the fancy quick change aluminium hand pieces. I have put my clunky Hakko fx-951 controllers back in their packing boxes ;) BTW you may have to spray a bit of CRC 226 lube down the shaft to easily remove and insert the tips otherwise they tend to stick to the rubber grommets and drag them out ;)

Also another good deal for aussies is the PACE ADS200 from TE Equipment but it's 120VAC unfortunately :( Not sure if the voltage can be changed but the tips are cheaper than JBC but performance may not be as good.

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0578/Soldering-Stations/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 02:49:05 am by snoopy »
 

Offline djnz

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 08:53:41 am »
... Also another good deal for aussies is the PACE ADS200 from TE Equipment but it's 120VAC unfortunately :( Not sure if the voltage can be changed but the tips are cheaper than JBC but performance may not be as good. ...

https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0580/soldering-station-with-tool-stand/dp/2893440
https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0581/soldering-station-with-isb-tool/dp/2893441
 

Offline Shock

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2019, 09:51:16 am »
Talk about impulse purchasing going from a JBC to a Chinese T12 clone, oh man!

The Pace ADS200 has slightly less power than the JBC, 120W vs 130W but it's diminishing returns as you go past 100W. Paces tips are mostly between ~$11-$13 each and are designed for long lasting all day production use so well plated, low cost, high quality. The best features is its very accurate, fast heating, minimal overshoot, no calibration required for tips and the iron itself is cool running with a small working distance.

Pace has the best aluminum iron design and adjustable temp technology out there, it heats to melt point in as little as 3 seconds from room temp.  There is no soldering iron on the planet that has better performance for the price which is around $200-$220 from tequipment for the 120V model.

I decided to buy a new JBC CD-1BQE soldering station.  I own a Hakko FX951 which is nice but, like the 888D, it has the issue that it can't keep up with high heat-sink soldering jobs.

The KSGER is using clone Hakko T12 70W tips so no real technology upgrade from the Hakko FX-951. The Hakko FX-888D has 65W tips slower recover but higher mass tips which improves things a little. Irons with less mass and less temperature accuracy seem better to inexperienced users.

The Pace ADS200 station and certain JBC irons have tips with more mass than the T12 and combined with their power and recovery speed allow them to solder both low and high mass applications easier.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 10:27:52 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline 4thDoctorWhoFan

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2019, 10:25:43 am »
I will be the first of the fanboys to pop up.  You could have gotten a used Metcal MX-500 with a tip for about half that price.  You can solder 2 1962 Volkswagon bumpers together with it.  OK, so maybe I exaggerate a bit. ;D  The MX-500 is production grade, will last forever, no knob fiddling and can easily solder anything you need to.  Hope you enjoy the JBC.  I also have a FX-951 which I bought before the Metcal.  I looked at JBC but it was too rich for my blood at the time and it didn't come with tips so I got the Hakko and 5 tips with tip holders for quite a bit less.

I agree.  I love my MX-500.
Reading some of these posts is funny because of all the equipment & messing around needed just to solder.
With the Metcal, I just turn it on then solder.  Very simple.  :)
 

Offline Shock

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2019, 10:43:50 am »
I will be the first of the fanboys to pop up.  You could have gotten a used Metcal MX-500 with a tip for about half that price.  You can solder 2 1962 Volkswagon bumpers together with it.  OK, so maybe I exaggerate a bit. ;D  The MX-500 is production grade, will last forever, no knob fiddling and can easily solder anything you need to.  Hope you enjoy the JBC.  I also have a FX-951 which I bought before the Metcal.  I looked at JBC but it was too rich for my blood at the time and it didn't come with tips so I got the Hakko and 5 tips with tip holders for quite a bit less.

I agree.  I love my MX-500.
Reading some of these posts is funny because of all the equipment & messing around needed just to solder.
With the Metcal, I just turn it on then solder.  Very simple.  :)

Pace is the same you just turn it on and by the time you reach for the iron its at temp. But one $11 tip can solder at any temperature (same for JBC just more expensive). After everything is taken into account Metcal is 10 times the running costs of Pace.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2019, 10:44:06 am »
Talk about impulse purchasing going from a JBC to a Chinese T12 clone, oh man!
I know :-[ buyers remorse and all that - although I feel good that I saved $400 in the end.

I'm sure the JBC would have been a good station but is it 5 x better than the KSGER?  I think it might be 2x better and at $250 would be a no-brainer but there are still aspects to it that reek of poor design.

I already have a Hakko FX951 which is good for light work (even lead-free) and the Aoyue 2900 is a beast in terms of thermal performance even though it's high-maintenance.  All I do is build the occasional prototype or change a component or 2 in fault-finding; I also have an Aoyue hot air rework station so I think I have most bases covered now.

As for my idea of making a replacement station; it seems that I'm always behind the curve and someone's beat me to the product. The control unit PCB for the KSGER T12 seems widely available for around $20, maybe a tweak of that unit to handle higher voltage/wattage might be an option?  The power supply in the KSGER is supposed to be 24V / 5A which is 120W and upping the voltage slightly to say 29V would get me 145W.

Anyway, thanks for all the info and advice.
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2019, 10:54:52 am »
Talk about impulse purchasing going from a JBC to a Chinese T12 clone, oh man!

The Pace ADS200 has slightly less power than the JBC, 120W vs 130W but it's diminishing returns as you go past 100W. Paces tips are mostly between ~$11-$13 each and are designed for long lasting all day production use so well plated, low cost, high quality. The best features is its very accurate, fast heating, minimal overshoot, no calibration required for tips and the iron itself is cool running with a small working distance.

Pace has the best aluminum iron design and adjustable temp technology out there, it heats to melt point in as little as 3 seconds from room temp.  There is no soldering iron on the planet that has better performance for the price which is around $200-$220 from tequipment for the 120V model.

I decided to buy a new JBC CD-1BQE soldering station.  I own a Hakko FX951 which is nice but, like the 888D, it has the issue that it can't keep up with high heat-sink soldering jobs.

The KSGER is using clone Hakko T12 70W tips so no real technology upgrade from the Hakko FX-951. The Hakko FX-888D has 65W tips slower recover but higher mass tips which improves things a little. Irons with less mass and less temperature accuracy seem better to inexperienced users.

The Pace ADS200 station and certain JBC irons have tips with more mass than the T12 and combined with their power and recovery speed allow them to solder both low and high mass applications easier.

Not quite according to this dude the JBC outperforms the Pace but then I heard the Pace had some issues with its first batch of tips.



Having said that I have owned a Pace PPS-15 and PS/80 and PS/90 handsets for the last two decades and it still keeps up with the JBC and Hakko direct heat irons according to the copper clad tests that Dave has done. Probably attributable to huge thick heating barrel, thick tips and secure grub screw arrangement that keeps the tip tightly in contact with the heater. A great iron that is still going strong. Not sure if it can handle lead free soldering though.

 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2019, 12:00:40 pm »
If I'm designing a 'normal' project, I use 0603 SMT components unless wattage requires me to go bigger. For smaller designs, I use 0402s and I've recently been forced to switch a few parts out to 0201s to make stuff fit.  I use an Amscope trinocular stereo microscope to work under and, even then, 0201 is truly the limit on what's possible in terms of hand-built prototyping.  Under such conditions, a small-tipped and tightly temperature-controlled iron is essential; such as my Hakko FX951.  Some designs go the other way with vias under high-wattage parts to sink heat to ground planes, these need high performance large irons such as the Aoyue 2900 with large tips.  I see the KSGER T12 and being biased towards the smaller end but I will wait until I get it and confirm.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 12:21:13 pm »
The power supply in the KSGER is supposed to be 24V / 5A which is 120W and upping the voltage slightly to say 29V would get me 145W.

Are you aware the Hakko T12 and T15 series 70w tips are the same as your Hakko FX-951 75W station uses? The clone T12 tips won't be any better than what you currently have.

Aliexpress says the Ksger is 75W (120W Max). 120W looks like a power supply maximum specification to me not the tip power consumption. I hope you're not expecting Pace and JBC performance after buying the Ksger. You are buying a cheap interface replacement with a smps.

I'm sure the JBC would have been a good station but is it 5 x better than the KSGER?  I think it might be 2x better and at $250 would be a no-brainer but there are still aspects to it that reek of poor design.

I'd recommend Pace over the JBC. The Pace ADS200 is still fairly new so it's a case of getting the word out there till people realize the benefits. It doesn't have a fancy display, so if you weren't aware that Paces makes high performane stations you wouldn't know.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Analog

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 12:29:05 pm »
If you are having difficulties due to thermal sinking try using a board warmer. Bringing up the board temp with hot air and then making the repair really helps. I don't believe it is possible to safety solder some boards otherwise. I have a $50 warmer that really helps out.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 12:45:03 pm »
Thanks all, I wasn't aware that the Hakko T15 tips were interchangable with the T12 tips.  My Hakko has an FM-2027 soldering iron which uses T15 series tips but changing the temperature is an absolute pain with having to insert the plastic thing and the do some form of ctl+alt+delete to change the settings!  Some commentators have said they prefer the KSGER to the Hakko for this reason alone.

I was aware of Pace and their high-end soldering gear and I have used the hot air rework station to preheat PCBs.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: JBC CD-1BQE
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2019, 01:21:34 pm »
Not quite according to this dude the JBC outperforms the Pace but then I heard the Pace had some issues with its first batch of tips.

The batch issue was fixed straight away and that video is the early Pace firmware 1.2 which jumps all over the place.

I've seen that video before it's a bit of a joke if you ask me. Aside from the firmware changes that guy is using temp setback like an instant on switch. If the JBC was at 350C why was it delivering 37% power straight afterwards? It also lands on 350C so perfectly like magic. From what I've seen JBC has more aggressive heating profile. Less tip plating makes it appear more thermally responsive.

It's hard to draw exact comparisons for those reasons but I would say all things being equal it's closer that it looks. The Pace as of firmware 1.4 now displays and is set in single degrees, they also slightly improved the performance as well.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 


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