Products > Test Equipment
JBC CD-1BQE
Shock:
--- Quote from: snoopy on June 07, 2019, 03:23:30 am ---But you can't easily change the tip temperature on a Metcal because it is totally fixed by the tip you are using. This reminds me of the old Weller WTCPN soldering stations with the fixed tip temperatures. :-DD
--- End quote ---
Depends what you mean by easily, but you can change to a different series tip to adjust the temp that's how Metcals work. That was the point I was making before, in order to solder at different temperatures it's about 10 times the cost of Pace (or about 3 times the cost of JBC), I'm sure GreyWoolfe is well aware of this though.
His Metcal MX-500 is still a good upgrade on the Hakko FX-951 and T12 series for recovery speed. But just because Metcal is Metcal it doesn't mean all the stations and irons are going to be the same. In the performance test JBC did (if that can even be trusted) it showed the Metcal PS800 taking over 45 seconds to reach set temp. I bet they cherry picked it for that reason.
Shock:
--- Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 07:05:18 am ---
--- Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 01:26:34 am ---From observing the slope and the stations I have a fair idea it's using an aggressive profile and recovering faster by applying more heating cycles.
--- End quote ---
I think this is a good feature, esp. if it can be turned on and off. Or, put it another way, adjustable PID settings.
--- End quote ---
Yeah it must be switchable in firmware. Ersa calls it power level, if you look at the PDF I posted before you can see the huge overshoot on the Ersa.
I've mentioned it to Pace, obviously its a good feature if you just want pure performance and don't care about overshoot. I'm not sure if they want to market the Accudrive series as the Inaccudrive though hahah. I just had a big pointless discussion before about IPC standards, this might have been part of Paces motivation behind a new more accurate high power station.
I don't have the latest standard but IPC J-STD-001F states:
"A-2b Equipment should be able to maintain control within ±10°C [+18°F] of the selected or required temperature during multiple point-to-points or thermal mass on demand soldering operations to verify temperature stability."
exe:
--- Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 08:04:28 am ---I don't have the latest standard but IPC J-STD-001F states:
"A-2b Equipment should be able to maintain control within ±10°C [+18°F] of the selected or required temperature during multiple point-to-points or thermal mass on demand soldering operations to verify temperature stability."
--- End quote ---
I have two points about this.
First, the standard you are referring to is for "electronics assembly manufacturing". Nowadays people use reflow for most part of the work. May be some final assembly (bigger connectors, etc) can use some manual labor, but a) temperature precision is not that important for connectors b) quality is controlled by visual inspection. I think here many people will agree with me that even "horrible poor performing overshooting JBC" does a great job, even though its default profile may not potentially comply to something.
Second, JBC claims for those who need compliance they have 25 profiles for different workflows, including the standard you mentioned: https://www.jbctools.com/new-compact-station-with-soldering-profiles-news-170.html . For their modular system they claim they have compliant profiles.
I also don't get where 10x/3x/whatever price difference comes from. JBC is indeed expensive, but it doesn't mean you have to have the whole range of tips. Many people solder with just two or three different tips. Instead of buying 10 different variants of chisel, I'd buy one chisel, one blade, may be one for qfp-32, and one with a cavity for wave soldering. Most of these are not even offered for Pace.
Anyway, if someone wants to throw their non-compliant JBC away, please let me know, I'll help with reducing e-waste.
Shock:
--- Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 am ---I think here many people will agree with me that even "horrible poor performing overshooting JBC" does a great job, even though its default profile may not potentially comply to something.
--- End quote ---
My point was mainly that software/control can be used to exaggerate performance by reducing the overall temperature accuracy of the station. It has to be a consideration at some point. The clone in the video appeared faster than the original JBC which is hilarious.
--- Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 am ---I also don't get where 10x/3x/whatever price difference comes from.
--- End quote ---
Metcal have different series tips that cover different soldering temperatures. Compared to JBC or Pace, Metcal is about 3-10 times more expensive for variable temp functionality.
--- Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 am ---Many people solder with just two or three different tips. Instead of buying 10 different variants of chisel, I'd buy one chisel, one blade, may be one for qfp-32, and one with a cavity for wave soldering. Most of these are not even offered for Pace.
--- End quote ---
Pace does chisels, miniwave (concave tip) and some blades, SOIC, QFP, TQFP have been added but not everything is moved over to the Accudrive series yet. If the Accudrive series follows what they did with Intelliheat I would expect it to grow with the release of the new stations and handpieces.
exe:
--- Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 10:45:01 am ---The clone in the video appeared faster than the original JBC which is hilarious.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure which video you are talking about, but I comment anyway :).
JBCs performance was greatly mystified because no other brand could get close to it (except metcal). But I think the reason is simply no-one tried hard-enough. The big brands divided the market, they get their profit share, why invest into research?
Then Chinese t12 clones came, as well some DIY stations (unisolder and a few from youtube) and original developments like ts100/ts80. They show good performance. Looking at schematics I don't see any "know-how". It's just a pid-controller. For a soldering station, it doesn't need to be fancy, nor to be super-fast or precise. An STM32 with built-in 12bit ADC seems to do well. So, just a mcu, a power supply, a mosfet and a display is that all is needed.
So, I don't see why a Chinese clone cannot compete with big brands. Esp., if overshooting is allowed :). I'd say Chinese companies have an advantage because they have much more freedom. Say, they don't need to supply service and spare part for next 20 years, they don't need to comply with some standards that may not be of interest of most customers, etc. They can experiment with UI, with graphic displays, rotary encoders etc. Big brands either cannot do it, or afraid of it so they don't piss off existing customers.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version