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| Keysight (lack of) calibration & other services |
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| Oldtestgear:
Firstly, many thanks to everyone that has commented on my post. I will try to answer as many of the questions as I can. I do not want to get into a debate about the legalities of this. --- Quote ---FirstlyWas that actually mentioned in Keysight's Email? The OP mentions it, but was that actually stated by KS, or just an assumption? Also, other calibration houses are available, you don't need to use Keysight to calibrate KS gear. --- End quote --- Yes, I was recommended by Keysight to be either VAT registered and /or an incorporated business. Not in an email but in telephone conversations about the problem of being an acceptable customer. Is this essential? No idea but it was recommended. Other calibration housess ar available. True but how many can actually calibrate (& adjust if necessary) a 7.5 digit DMM? I spent a while looking for an acceptable alternative based upon their declared capability. All ISO17025 test house are certified in the UK by UKAS & full details are published on their website. After a morning of hunting around to check the labs I was aware of & those recommended to me, the result was disappointing. The only lab I found with the declared competency was Fluke in Norwich. They would willingly calibrate it but the cost was eye wateringly high (to me anyway). Test houses /cal. labs. work for their market sector. This is how they survive & having a modest capability is absolutey great if it fulfils the customers requirements. I am sure that there are very few csutomers that want a 7.5 diggit DMM certified by a third party company rather than the OEM. Posiibly a wrong assumption on my part. --- Quote ---On HPAK groups.io, Dr David Kirby made the interesting suggestion "So in summary, I would say if one argues with Keysight, they will probably back down. Otherwise say you are a consultant and use it professionally! You don't need to be either VAT registered or have a limited company to use something professionally." --- End quote --- I argued & they did not back down despite an mail describing my 40 year experience in the industry. --- Quote --- speculation: Imagine the ownership cost of a NIST traceable josephson array. Now imagine some hobbyist getting a perfect calibration, let's say the black edition HP 3458A and that person starts distributing precision calibration all over the world for the price of postage. In another thread i read the statement: "When i tried to get an official calibration i recognized how my private equipment was superior to the central metrology lab of my state." That can't work. Maybe precision calibration is a value that needs supervision, similar to IP. --- End quote --- This is the Metrology section of the EEVBLOG. I would bet serious money that many of the VOLT NUTS here do have a better calibration facility than many (most?) local calibration labs. A cal lab needs to actually make money to survive & cannot waste it on facilities & equipment that does not add value to their bottom line. Besides Keysight does calibrate their equipment for other labs. It is the natural flow down of capability. Any hobbyist buying a black edition 3458A , & has the controlled environment to use it fully, is either very rich or a committed VOLT NUT. My wife would just describe them as "mad". She may have a point. --- Quote --- My understanding is that it's "a legitimate interpretation of a boneheaded 'consumer protection' law." I believe there are some restrictions around "industrial equipment" [probably not the correct legal term] being sold to non-industrial parties (aka individuals). I do not know the details but @oldtestgear I'm looking into it with Peter. --- End quote --- Thanks Daniel for offering to look into this. I would stress that everyone I have dealt with at KS (UK) & KS Germany has been very pleasant & seem to have tried very hard to get this problem solved. I am deifinitely angry about the sudden block on getting a calibration without hassle but not at the messengers. --- Quote ---What an odd endorsement for Tektronix. --- End quote --- Tektronix Uk suggested using Keithley to calibrate it ( they also recommended Fluke of course) plus a couple of other companies. Keithley are in Germany which now makes it too difficult to consider trying. Thanks again to everyone who has posted here. Phil |
| HighVoltage:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on July 16, 2021, 11:40:01 pm ---Remember the time when Bill Hewlett himself gave a 12yo Steve Jobs the parts needed to build his oscillator? https://www.businessinsider.com.au/what-we-can-learn-from-the-gutsy-way-steve-jobs-landed-a-job-at-hp-2015-7?r=US&IR=T Those were the days... --- End quote --- Personally I had amazingly positive experience with Keysight and really thought that the HP spirit had survived. But I also got to know the opposite. Times have changed. I have my own business in Germany and luckily I still can buy replacement parts from Keysight, as long as they are available. Interesting thread to follow. Looking forward to see, how this one ends. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: porker1972 on July 17, 2021, 10:09:23 am ---This thing about sales to an individual is down to two legal problems the manufacturer can get themselves into: Public Liability Insurance and Export Licencing. --- End quote --- I ran into the export licencing issue 30 years ago when I was an HP employee. I needed to import a munition made by HP to be used inside an HP building. The paperwork wasn't too much trouble. Now, why was that piece of test equipment classed as a munition? I don't know, but will speculate that Ulster accents were involved :) |
| Cerebus:
--- Quote from: Oldtestgear on July 17, 2021, 10:13:00 am ---After a morning of hunting around to check the labs I was aware of & those recommended to me, the result was disappointing. The only lab I found with the declared competency was Fluke in Norwich. They would willingly calibrate it but the cost was eye wateringly high (to me anyway). --- End quote --- Try Calmet in Teddington (https://www.calmet.co.uk). Their UKAS accredited capabilities take them well into 7 1/1 digit territory (accredited 10V to 0.3ppm versus 34470 8+2ppm@24 hours) and they are a proper cal lab, not monkeys doing token calibrations for electrician's "testers" (sic). Not surprising really when a walk will take them to NPL where the national traceability standards are kept. No idea what their pricing is like. |
| tggzzz:
Caution: since I know little about the topic, this speculation is worth what you paid for it. As I understand it, in the UK it is entirely possible to trade as a business without a VAT number and without Companies House allocating you a number. In that case, would Keysight be satisfied with a purchase order from "Mousetrap Consultants"? |
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