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| Keysight 1200X series "no replaceable parts are available" |
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| Fraser:
With regard to companies being seen to supply spare parts….. all is not always as it seems, as the ‘right to repair’ lobby likely know. I repair thermal imaging cameras and have investigated the supply of repair parts in the past. Some companies state that they will only supply parts and service data to bona fide approved service agents and not end users. This is not uncommon and Health and Safety is often given as a valid reason for the policy. I have managed to bypass the ‘front end’ customer support defences of some companies and dealt direct with either senior management or helpful service techs. Sometimes I got lucky and had spare parts (new or used) sent to me free of charge as a good will gesture. On other occasions I have been told that only complete PCB or module replacement is available as the manufacturer sub contracts the PCB builds. In those cases the PCB’s are often eye wateringly expensive and those that come with flash memory may require programming with specialist service software. The cost and need for programming renders such spares pretty much useless to anyone but a service agent. I was quoted £5K for a processor PCB containing nothing special (MC68340 Processor). A generic MC68K SBC would cost a few hundred Pounds at most. The programming of the PCB for use was another £2K with VAT + S&H piled on top. The total cost of the repair (without my labour included) would have been around £8500. It was cheaper for me to buy a used parts donor unit for less than £500 and use the PCB out of that. The manufacturer can honestly say that I was offered repair support though ! Fraser |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Bud on June 12, 2022, 01:31:00 pm ---Replacing encoders is totally feasible at home, i would not worry about that. --- End quote --- Agreed. Many problems originate from wear and are perfectly diagnosable / fixable without schematics. What people here seem to forget is that many test equipment manufacturers had a habit of using custom parts (like encoders with long shafts) that are not available anywhere once the stock runs out. Having schematics is nice and dandy but doesn't help if you can't get the parts. Nowadays equipment uses off-the-shelve parts. So maybe you'll need to spend an hour looking in the Mouser catalog to find the replacement part but at least you can buy it. |
| Fraser:
In my experience, the problems really occur when firmware and custom IC’s are involved in a repair. I can sometimes source a ‘blank’ Processor or other clever IC, but cannot obtain the proprietary code to enter into its flash memory. The original IC is either dead (hence the need to replace it) or protected against copying in some clever way. Failed ASIC’s are a nightmare for repair techs without access to the programmed spare parts. As I highlighted above, some modern manufacturers use 3rd parties to make their PCB’s and so whole PCB replacement is the only support option offered to the repair tech. No schematics needed… just ‘plug & play’ with maybe calibration routines to complete. I know of several companies that do not provide any schematics to their service agents as it is a PCB change based support model. I have many modern service manuals that contain a fault finding flow diagram and just show case disassembly diagrams and where the various PCB cables interconnect. Maybe a guide to calibration or configuration as well, but even that usually requires access to factory JIGS or utilities :( I might add that this was the case with camcorders back in the late 1980’s so it is not anything very new. In those days the service manual contained a schematic but you often still needed factory JIGs and either a programming handset or utility software to complete a repair. Software configuration and ‘calibration’ has been with us for decades and remains a challenge to those without the utilities to complete such tasks as part of a repair. |
| ralphrmartin:
--- Quote from: Fraser on June 12, 2022, 12:21:50 pm ---No idea why HP decided to place “Refurbished” labels on brand new units coming off the production line, --- End quote --- A couple of years ago, I bought 2 laptops from a big name vendor at about 1/2 the price they had been previously, as "ding and dent" models. I was a little surprised to get a delivery date estimate that said they were being "built-to-order". Fortunately, dinging and denting them was not part of the build process. ;D I reasoned that it was the manufacturer's way of getting rid of surplus processors etc that were not the "latest and greatest" without upsetting the guys who had bought them at the full price too much. I've also bought Cambridge University Press books at a steep discount, with a "Damaged" stamp. The only damage I could find was the word "Damaged" in big dark letters on the title page. A way of getting rid of overstocks without upsetting the bookshops? I used to think it was a way of selling books below the official price, when there were book price controls in the UK, but the practice carries on now. Is it a way to sell books cheaply to poor students? It would be nice to think CUP were so charitable, but somehow I doubt kindness as a motive. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: Fraser on June 12, 2022, 01:30:24 pm ---That policy against hobbyist sales confirms what I was thinking about the current HP/Keysight support strategy. Not wanting to be mean or too general in my comments, but I have had many manufacturers tell me that the ‘profit to support cost ratio’ of ‘consumer/hobbyist’ sales is very poor compared to that of ‘Professional/Industrial’ sales. Some companies ditched their consumer orientated products as they found the support costs unacceptable for that market segment. There are some real horror stories I could tell, but they are discrete cases and not representative of most consumers or hobbyists. --- End quote --- There was a good example of that (borged through Keysight moving their support forum/platform, user posts were absorbed to a generic support account): |
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