Products > Test Equipment
Keysight 1200X series "no replaceable parts are available"
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Porama6400:

--- Quote from: EE-digger on June 15, 2022, 08:18:32 pm ---Out of warranty, you better have a service agreement or be prepared to fix it yourself (without documentation for the most part).

--- End quote ---

They also actively strip out schematics from products that previously had one.

I guess Keysight is going the Apple direction.
It's disappointing to see what they become.
EE-digger:
The root cause of this is US (not me, I don't hold many stocks), the investors, stockholders and mutual fund owners.

While I would love to return to the good old days with full schematics, BOMs, assembly drawings and in some cases (way back) PCB trace drawings (part of old fashioned assembly drawings), it will NEVER happen.

Here are a few of the reasons, which are pretty easy to see:

Schematics - costs
* additional cost to produce publication ready documents
* additional cost of handling, managing, revision control, updates, notifications
* to many, this would be a blessing by themselves but for others - cost of producing full circuit descriptions and theory of operations

Schematics - dangers
* design can be cloned in a few hours of work
* one schematics are cloned, netlists will be generated and IF a sample of the product is available, PCB layouts cloned in hours (except or layer topology)
* IP (which I think is a double edge sword and do not like lawyers and courts) which may have cost tens of millions of dollars is now laid bare for all takers

Assemblies and BOMs
* thousands of man hours in component specification, searching, qualification is also laid bare for the taking
* when the components are known, what is not know is the reasons why they were used but WHO CARES.  The fake copy now performs like the original as all mechanical, thermal, power dissipation, aging, etc. have been copied, the thieves not even knowing why.

All of the above costs and costs and costs which leads to the "us" (i.e. stockholder, etc.) part of the business.  What do we want from our investments?  Pretty simple and common:

* constant growth
* constant profits and dividends
* in many cases, the above can be achieved by any means possible, WHO CARES?  certainly not most of the stockholders.
* your management will be out on the street if they can't dance to the stockholders beat, but not before bailing out with multi-million dollar umbrella clauses

Automate all you can, script all you can, deal with individual issues as little as possible, charge for anything you provide, etc. etc.

The last item there is why Keysight (certainly not alone and no where near the first to do so) now charges for support.  In addition to your service agreement, if you want help after the sale, you better also purchase a support agreement, also by the year or other increment of coverage.

Sorry for somewhat of a rant.  I think I see how we got to where we are and it's not going to change.  Just cover your a$$ with protection for your purchase.

I still think Keysight is the best.  I don't believe the lack of a support agreement will get you a phone disconnect, at least not yet.  And as I mentioned earlier, Keysight has the most supportive and helpful people I've ever met in the business.







Mr. Scram:
Really? That's certainly disappointing. A large part of the point of going with a big name over a cheaper option is support.

It's quite baffling how the big names think competing with China means cutting out everything that sets them apart from these Chinese competitors.
bd139:
The real picture looks like this:

On one hand we've got Keysight pissing off private customers on multiple threads by refusing to calibrate or support their products.

On the other hand we've got Siglent providing patched firmware for a bug for a customer the next day without a support contract in place or even any validation that the product is in warranty or not or who the buyer is in another thread.

Pricing for the same specification device:

Keysight £1136 ex VAT

Siglent £300 ex VAT

If the Siglent completely breaks in any way out of warranty (both have default 3y warranty) you can afford to buy another one 3.78 times in the same lifespan.
Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: bd139 on June 23, 2022, 03:46:20 pm ---The real picture looks like this:

On one hand we've got Keysight pissing off private customers on multiple threads by refusing to calibrate or support their products.

On the other hand we've got Siglent providing patched firmware for a bug for a customer the next day without a support contract in place or even any validation that the product is in warranty or not or who the buyer is in another thread.

Pricing for the same specification device:

Keysight £1136 ex VAT

Siglent £300 ex VAT

--- End quote ---
The reality for Keysight is that purchases are "trickling up" in a very real sense. As the situation persists, consumers who are used to the Chinese competitors will introduce those in professional environments, or commercial customers will just flat out opt for Chinese equipment for economic reasons, all other things being equal. Most customers don't need 100 GHz oscilloscopes.

Keysight ends up depending on a small group of high end customers which will inevitably wane as the domain of Keysight shrinks due to dropping the lower end of the market. At the same time the Chinese competition inevitably moves up in the world as their capabilities and budgets improve. Keysight is painting themselves in a corner it's almost impossible to get out once you're stuck in it.
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