Author Topic: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions  (Read 7028 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jdev99Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: england
Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« on: October 14, 2021, 07:51:14 pm »
I am considering buying a Keysight U1233A but never used a dmm with these orange displays/ backlights. How are they compared to the traditional ones, easy to read in dim - poor lighting or not?
Thank you for all opinions.
Joe.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 07:56:34 pm »
I have several things with orange backlights and I don't find it to be a problem. It's more pleasing in dim conditions than the bluish white that is so common.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 02:40:54 am »
My Brymen has an orange backlight. I quite like it, it feels a bit retro/nixie.
 

Offline AVGresponding

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4643
  • Country: england
  • Exploring Rabbit Holes Since The 1970s
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 05:19:01 am »
The orangey-yellow backlight is the only thing I like about my Solartron 7150...   :-DD
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Agilent-AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Chauvin Arnoux-Fluke-GenRad-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Metrix-Micronta-Racal-RFL-Siglent-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16545
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2021, 09:01:26 pm »
There are physiological reasons to prefer white, or colors which are not blue.  Green was popular with CRTs because the combined sensitivity of the P31 phosphor and response of the eye is the highest, but the other two common alternatives were white, and orange.  If you ignore efficiency, then anything except blue is preferred.  Blue or violet are problematical because the eye has the worst discrimination at short wavelengths and has difficulty focusing.
 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2021, 12:46:52 am »
Don't buy the U1233A, the orange backlight is terrible, among some other stand-out issues.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2021, 09:39:01 am »
Don't buy the U1233A, the orange backlight is terrible, among some other stand-out issues.

Is that because you don't like the color or because it's badly implemented?

 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2021, 11:09:22 pm »
The orange color is very dark so the contrast with the LCD is poor.  The backlight timer is 15 seconds and doesn't reset if you change modes or press buttons.

Since nobody asked, the other issues are:
- the LED flashlight on the back is a bit of a laugh
- has uA and A ranges but no mA so there are values it literally cannot display
- only 6,000 count
- jacks are not color coded
- poor and inconsistent button labels
- selector knob seems designed for lefties


 

Offline bob91343

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2675
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 01:13:45 am »
I have a Fluke bench DMM that uses an LCD.  I would like to illuminate it but have no clue how to do that.
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5980
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 03:06:04 am »
I personally like the orange backlight - I have a U1282A and had a U1233A and both were just fine. I tend to prefer this warm color to the white backlight of the 87V and 189, for example.

The orange color is very dark so the contrast with the LCD is poor.  The backlight timer is 15 seconds and doesn't reset if you change modes or press buttons.
The timer not resetting with the meter operation is something the Flukes implement very well. The other brands I know, not so much.

Since nobody asked, the other issues are:
- the LED flashlight on the back is a bit of a laugh
- has uA and A ranges but no mA so there are values it literally cannot display
- only 6,000 count
- jacks are not color coded
- poor and inconsistent button labels
- selector knob seems designed for lefties
Since nobody asked to respond, here I go.
- It is quite decent for a meter (not a flashlight) and is equivalent to what you see in more modern meters that have the same feature.
- Indeed this is a somewhat weird choice, although the µA range makes some sense for HVAC electricians (flame sensor testing). It can display anything from 0 to 600µA and from 1mA to 10A.
- Nothing really wrong with that, it is a meter for electricians.
- Nothing really wrong with that, although the more colors the merrier.
- You think so? I personally like them - good and reasonable labels and descriptions.
- The knob is for right handed electricians holding the meter in their left hand and the probes in their right hand. The rotary dial protrudes to the side to help rotating it with the thumb. However, joeqsmith did a test on its smaller cousin (U1231) and its build quality left to be desired by a large margin.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2021, 03:08:42 am »
Since nobody asked, the other issues are:
- the LED flashlight on the back is a bit of a laugh
- has uA and A ranges but no mA so there are values it literally cannot display
- only 6,000 count
- jacks are not color coded
- poor and inconsistent button labels
- selector knob seems designed for lefties

Oh, it's that meter. I wasn't paying attention.

Yeah, don't get that one.  :--
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2021, 05:28:49 am »
I hate timers that cannot be defeated easily. I don't care if it drains the battery, leave the backlight on until I turn it off, otherwise it invariably is going to turn off when I'm in the middle of using it.
 
The following users thanked this post: rsjsouza, Jacon

Offline HKJ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2899
  • Country: dk
    • Tests
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2021, 07:41:34 am »
The backlight timer is 15 seconds and doesn't reset if you change modes or press buttons.

That can be change in the configuration menu.
 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2021, 07:50:29 am »
I personally like the orange backlight - I have a U1282A and had a U1233A and both were just fine. I tend to prefer this warm color to the white backlight of the 87V and 189, for example.

Since nobody asked to respond, here I go.
- It is quite decent for a meter (not a flashlight) and is equivalent to what you see in more modern meters that have the same feature.
- Indeed this is a somewhat weird choice, although the µA range makes some sense for HVAC electricians (flame sensor testing). It can display anything from 0 to 600µA and from 1mA to 10A.
- Nothing really wrong with that, it is a meter for electricians.
- Nothing really wrong with that, although the more colors the merrier.
- You think so? I personally like them - good and reasonable labels and descriptions.
- The knob is for right handed electricians holding the meter in their left hand and the probes in their right hand. The rotary dial protrudes to the side to help rotating it with the thumb. However, joeqsmith did a test on its smaller cousin (U1231) and its build quality left to be desired by a large margin.

More thoughts to that:
- The flashlight is a very focused beam with two big blue spots.  I have other DMMs with lights and they are no good too but better mostly because they are floody.
- The manual says "AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models."  I actually need to test this.  I think it just isn't sensitive enough in the 6A range to pick up below 300mA because otherwise it does have the resolution to 1mA even in AC mode.
- 6,000 counts seems weak. But in this case I primarily mentioned it since most folks here are doing electronics work.
- I know there are DMMs without colored jacks, but it's still a poor choice.  My U1461A has the same arrangement and it's really a step backwards in design.  On the U1233A it's strange that they have orange U shaped marks below the jacks, which is the same color as the alternative functions on the selector dial.  So when measuring temperature I should put the probes in the A and V jacks????  No...
- Labels below the line are supposedly for press and hold, except what's Vsense doing?  Light button has a / instead of a horizontal line so doesn't match the rest.  Just looks like someone crammed all this on there without thinking.
- Pretty much every clamp meter in existence has the knob on the right.  Holding a DMM in your left hand along with one probe and then probing with your right hand seems crazy on various levels.  Magnets or a hanger strap is the way to do it.  Also, the knob is too close to the bottom of the meter so even trying to rotate it with your left hand is awkward, unlike most clamp meters where it's great.

Some GOOD things about the meter:
- You can replace the 4 AAA batteries and fuse without removing the rubber holster.  Metal threads with captive screw.
- Continuity flashes the backlight in addition to beeping (scratchy beep, BTW).
- Pretty much every reading is spot on, although that's somewhat easy with ~6,000 counts.
- Has an IR port for USB and Bluetooth adapters and decent software.


I also did find timeout options are available for the backlight and flashlight from 1-99 seconds or disabled.  Defaults are backlight 15 seconds, flashlight timeout disabled, which are both just really weird decisions.  I changed both to 99 seconds which seems reasonable.  There are quite a few "hidden" options you can tweak, although most are pretty niche.


Back to the backlight, just do an image search for this meter and you'll see in every photo that the display is hard to read when the backlight is on.  And marketing has the rubbish flashlight feature plastered over one entire side of the retail box!
 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2021, 07:57:27 am »
The backlight timer is 15 seconds and doesn't reset if you change modes or press buttons.

That can be change in the configuration menu.

To clarify, the timeout can be changed, but having it extend the timer due to activity can't be changed, or did I miss something?

But the 99 second maximum might be adequate for most people.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2021, 09:50:41 am »
- The manual says "AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models."  I actually need to test this.  I think it just isn't sensitive enough in the 6A range to pick up below 300mA because otherwise it does have the resolution to 1mA even in AC mode.

IIRC the problem is that it jumps from a 600uA range to a 6A range.

There's no way to measure 750uA (for example), it has no range for that.


- 6,000 counts seems weak. But in this case I primarily mentioned it since most folks here are doing electronics work.

It's exactly the same as the (in)famous Fluke 87V.  :-//

Some GOOD things about the meter:

Doesn't matter, the current range problem is a total showstopper.

(plus it's not a cheap meter, you can get a top-of-the range Brymen for less money)
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5980
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2021, 04:25:44 pm »
(...)
More thoughts to that:
Thanks for the additional insights. I forgot some of the details about the current measurement.

As a price/performance ratio, Fungus is correct - there are better propositions in the same size/form factor including the Fluke 11x family (less featured) or the Brymens BM23x/25x.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2021, 05:51:43 pm »
The flashlight feature seems like a weird one to give such prominence. I'm sure there are times when it could be useful, I mean I use the flashlight on my smartphone all the time, but that's really only because I always have it on me. Since I already have my phone most of the time, I don't really see a need for a second crappy flashlight built into my DMM.
 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2021, 06:05:35 pm »
- The manual says "AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models."  I actually need to test this.  I think it just isn't sensitive enough in the 6A range to pick up below 300mA because otherwise it does have the resolution to 1mA even in AC mode.

IIRC the problem is that it jumps from a 600uA range to a 6A range.

There's no way to measure 750uA (for example), it has no range for that.

Yes, it is obvious it can't measure from about 660.0uA up to 1mA on DC mode but my point about AC mode is that the manual states up to 300mA which doesn't make sense at face value.  So I (or someone) needs to test this to see what is really going on or if it's a typo.

- 6,000 counts seems weak. But in this case I primarily mentioned it since most folks here are doing electronics work.

It's exactly the same as the (in)famous Fluke 87V.  :-//

You know the Fluke has Hi Res mode which is 20,000 count, so it's not a proper comparison at all!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 07:02:15 pm by J-R »
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5980
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2021, 06:55:55 pm »
The flashlight feature seems like a weird one to give such prominence. I'm sure there are times when it could be useful, I mean I use the flashlight on my smartphone all the time, but that's really only because I always have it on me. Since I already have my phone most of the time, I don't really see a need for a second crappy flashlight built into my DMM.
James, the flashlight is useful in certain conditions, but only if you see yourself at dim/dark places, in the attic, working at dusk/dawn/evening, etc. I rarely used it, but one the best I know is the Amprobe AM530: a real clunking switch that can exhaust the battery if you desire to do so. Another that is also good is the Richmeters 113D - although the backlight is timed, the flashlight isn't and bleeds through the top of the display, thus making a poor man's backlight as well.

I have seem other chinese meters with a timed flashlight as well - pretty stupid IMO.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline J-R

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: us
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2021, 06:20:14 am »
OK, I can say at least on my U1233A that the following statement in the manual and other materials is mostly false:
"AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models."

- Being ~6600 count it can actually measure up to ~660uA.
- It does have a dead spot in A mode up to about 0.015A but otherwise has no problems displaying quite accurate readings from that point onward.
- If you REL out the 0.015A reading to start with, it will basically be off by that amount as you go up.  So 0.050A will read 0.035A for example.
- Tests were run with 60Hz sine.

 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2021, 07:28:41 am »
- Being ~6600 count it can actually measure up to ~660uA.
- It does have a dead spot in A mode up to about 0.015A but otherwise has no problems

Being unable to measure between 660uA and 16mA seems like quite a big problem to me. I measure single digit mA a LOT.

This isn't a cheap meter nor does it have a particularly good CAT rating.

Fluke makes a similar meter though, the 116 has uA mode up to 600uA and the same CAT rating. There must be somebody out there who wants this.



 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: hr
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2021, 08:18:47 am »
- Being ~6600 count it can actually measure up to ~660uA.
- It does have a dead spot in A mode up to about 0.015A but otherwise has no problems

Being unable to measure between 660uA and 16mA seems like quite a big problem to me. I measure single digit mA a LOT.

This isn't a cheap meter nor does it have a particularly good CAT rating.

Fluke makes a similar meter though, the 116 has uA mode up to 600uA and the same CAT rating. There must be somebody out there who wants this.

That is for HVAC use. Flame sensors testing, specifically.. So you can look at it as a HVAC technician meter here that has 6A and 10A AC/DC current ranges and Flame sensor testing capabilities (that so happen to be uA measurements...). I've seen in the past meters that had been marked with flame sensor mode not uA... They were still measuring uA, mind you...


OK, I can say at least on my U1233A that the following statement in the manual and other materials is mostly false:
"AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models."

- Being ~6600 count it can actually measure up to ~660uA.
- It does have a dead spot in A mode up to about 0.015A but otherwise has no problems displaying quite accurate readings from that point onward.
- If you REL out the 0.015A reading to start with, it will basically be off by that amount as you go up.  So 0.050A will read 0.035A for example.
- Tests were run with 60Hz sine.


Information in manual can be "in error" meaning that error was made writing it.
It can never be "false". That is purpose of those documents: a manufacturers "manifesto" of what is purpose of instrument, it's guaranteed characteristics, and it's intended use.

Whatever anybody else claims is irrelevant. If Keysight , clearly, states in a official datasheet:

"5. AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA is not measureable on the U1232A and U1233A models. "

than that is not only very true, but only authoritative information. Your, mine, or anybody else's opinion doesn't matter not a little bit.

Those 2 meters cannot measure AC current between 0.6 mA and 300 mA AND provide any sensible and repeatable results. And that is GUARANTEED spec by manufacturer.
And there is a reason, for it, log/antilog RMS converters are not guaranteed to show any sensible data below some 5 % of full scale.

They are actually quite honest here, not hiding it and clearly stating it. If you need meter to measure miliamps in that area, you need to get meter that has fully featured amps range..
What you measured will wildly vary with temperature and frequency of signal, because of RMS converter chip used..

And there are reasons for the strong disclaimer: for instance, someone might be tempted to measure leakage current from some device and decide it is safe because it was "only" 5 mA, while in fact it was 25mA or more...
Yes, people shouldn't be stupid and shouldn't do what they are not supposed to do but they still do it. Mostly because they believe the can get away with it "this time" and they "know better".

And it all starts with also believing that instruments are better then they are and can do magical things not specified in datasheets.. Because you know better than one of most respected T&M manufacturer on the planet that actually made the device... Because you tested on a sample of one..

 

Offline Huluvu

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Country: de
    • ECM Home
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2021, 10:32:56 am »
I am not sure why everybody is bashing this Multimeter Series from Keysight  :-//
The obvious purpose of this range of Multimeter was a counter part to the Fluke 113,115,117 Range.
Fluke statet on their Website that this Multimeter was designed as "A compact trms digital multimeter for field service technicians".

6 or 7  Years ago i was thinking of getting the Fluke 115 and decided to spend my money on the U1232A (Agilent that time) and never regretted this decision  :-DMM
If i recall it correctly it was also much cheaper that time.

I really like the fast update rate, logging capability and the function that you can reverse the continuity mode to trigger at open circuits.
"Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no..."
 

Online tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7307
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX product design
Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2021, 10:44:26 am »
I am not sure why everybody is bashing this Multimeter Series from Keysight  :-//
The obvious purpose of this range of Multimeter was a counter part to the Fluke 113,115,117 Range.
Fluke statet on their Website that this Multimeter was designed as "A compact trms digital multimeter for field service technicians".

6 or 7  Years ago i was thinking of getting the Fluke 115 and decided to spend my money on the U1232A (Agilent that time) and never regretted this decision  :-DMM
If i recall it correctly it was also much cheaper that time.

I really like the fast update rate, logging capability and the function that you can reverse the continuity mode to trigger at open circuits.
I'm not sure either. I've been recommending buying Agilent/KS handheld meters instead of the Fluke ones for years now. They have better pricing, more compact, more features for the same range. I think I had one buzzer fail within warranty, that was replaced, but if it wasn't that would be an easy repair if needed.
And yes, if you are ordering it for electronics, you should buy something that has mA range, and not something that is designed for Electricians or HVAC.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf