Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions

[Nusa]

Note that the individual reaction to color choice will be affected by that person's color vision. Estimates are 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women have some degree of color-blindness, most commonly of the red-green type.

So when you get opinions from enough people, their experience is quite legitimately going to vary. Not everyone will like what you like and vice versa.

[2N3055]

To make sure we are on the same page, I am NOT bashing it.

I think it a good meter for it's purpose.

What can be seen as "shortcomings" by some, are not, but deliberate design decisions for target market.
If some instrument doesn't have measurements you need, it is not bad because of it, but wrong choice for your purpose.

On the other hand, some people start with apologetic " well it doesn't have the range but you don't need it because ....".
That is also wrong (and my reason to speak up).

You decide what you need, and buy instrument for that purpose.

To some, a flashlight is more important than 500mA range. Flashlight they need all the time, and having one in meter saves them from carrying 2 devices instead of only one when crawling into tight spaces between two generators.. And they never measure milliamps. For them this meter is sent from heaven.
For me BM869 is better choice. To each it's own..

Orange light might be easier on the eyes in dark environments, easier on night vision. We used red light to read maps at night...

Regards to all...

[Huluvu]

To make sure we are on the same page, I am NOT bashing it.

Regards to all...

Yes - we are on the same Page 
I also do not specifically refer to this thread, but i read so many comments (eevblog, Youtube...) people complaining the missing mA Range, the wrong understood uA functionality and the not latched continuity function 
Please don't get me wrong - everybody can complain what ever he wants to complain, but in this case it sounds a bit strange if you compare the model range with Fluke 11X as a fair comparison.
Its like you buy a Porsche 911 and complain that offroad sucks 

[J-R]

Yes, the HVAC use case has been mentioned over and over, I get it.  But this forum is pretty heavy on electronics and bench use as well.  So the current measurement gap is a relevant topic to discuss here.

The dark orange backlight against the dark LCD digits provides objectively poor contrast (dark against dark).   I have no color or vision deficiencies.


The novella about the manual always being right is a bit much, I very clearly said "my" U1233A and also stated the test frequency and waveform.  If the manual wants to be immutable then it needs to provide quite a bit more than it does.  But most DMM manuals are similar, so that is why we all are here testing things and presenting our findings.

Let's go further, if the 300mA AC A statement is due to the 5% of the range statement: "AC V and AC A specifications are AC coupled, true rms and are valid from 5% of range to 100% of range." (Page 104), then why isn't that mentioned on the AC V specifications page?  If the manual is gospel then the fact is that the U1233A can't be used to measure AC V from 0-30mV either.  Where is that footnote?


I would feel sorry for anyone trying to use the flashlight on this meter.  It's objectively terrible.  Just get a headlamp or a clip-on light.  LEDs and flashlights have come so far in the last 10+ years.  (Also, "EDC" is a thing.)

[25 CPS]

Yes, the HVAC use case has been mentioned over and over, I get it.  But this forum is pretty heavy on electronics and bench use as well.  So the current measurement gap is a relevant topic to discuss here.

The dark orange backlight against the dark LCD digits provides objectively poor contrast (dark against dark).   I have no color or vision deficiencies.


The novella about the manual always being right is a bit much, I very clearly said "my" U1233A and also stated the test frequency and waveform.  If the manual wants to be immutable then it needs to provide quite a bit more than it does.  But most DMM manuals are similar, so that is why we all are here testing things and presenting our findings.

Let's go further, if the 300mA AC A statement is due to the 5% of the range statement: "AC V and AC A specifications are AC coupled, true rms and are valid from 5% of range to 100% of range." (Page 104), then why isn't that mentioned on the AC V specifications page?  If the manual is gospel then the fact is that the U1233A can't be used to measure AC V from 0-30mV either.  Where is that footnote?


I would feel sorry for anyone trying to use the flashlight on this meter.  It's objectively terrible.  Just get a headlamp or a clip-on light.  LEDs and flashlights have come so far in the last 10+ years.  (Also, "EDC" is a thing.)

I have several orange Keysights and a couple of older Agilents with the blue backlight.  What I've discovered is that the orange is better in low light environments because it doesn't interfere with night vision the way the blue on the older Agilents does, even if it is a pretty colour and has better contrast.  The recovery time from looking at the meter to working is a bit longer with those, I find.

I've also got a U1461A insulation tester with the OLED screen which is fine in low light environments but has the opposite problem where it gets washed out badly under daylight.

[David Hess]

The old Fluke 87 multimeters have an excellent green LED backlight;  I do not know about later ones.  The contemporary Tektronix DMM916 has a horrible white (incandescent?) backlight which is practically useless.

[AVGresponding]

I would feel sorry for anyone trying to use the flashlight on this meter.  It's objectively terrible.  Just get a headlamp or a clip-on light.  LEDs and flashlights have come so far in the last 10+ years.  (Also, "EDC" is a thing.)

Just another thing to carry around and have to remember to either keep charged up or carry spare batteries for.

My own personal use case for a jaw mounted light on my clamp meter may be a marginal one, but when you need it, you need it.

Time worn sparky aphorism "Better to be looking at it, than looking for it!"

[J-R]

I would feel sorry for anyone trying to use the flashlight on this meter.  It's objectively terrible.  Just get a headlamp or a clip-on light.  LEDs and flashlights have come so far in the last 10+ years.  (Also, "EDC" is a thing.)

Just another thing to carry around and have to remember to either keep charged up or carry spare batteries for.

My own personal use case for a jaw mounted light on my clamp meter may be a marginal one, but when you need it, you need it.

Time worn sparky aphorism "Better to be looking at it, than looking for it!"

Time to take things up a notch.  How hard is it to remember to charge your flashlight?  Or just carry more than one.  I've been carrying multitools/knives and flashlights since I was a wee lad.  Can't ever go back.  Attached is my current EDC (every day carry) loadout (top row goes in the sheath).  All the lights are 4.2V Li-ion.  Two smaller are ~350-500lm, mid ~1,000lm, largest is ~4,000lm. The larger light does live in an outer jacket/layer (along with the 9mm unless I'm concealed).  Not shown is my relatively minimalist wallet and of course cell phone.

[2N3055]

You're missing a helmet and a M16 and you're ready to deploy... 

You will be surprised, but outside of USA, people don't walk around ready for war. Gun included..
EDC is not a big thing in the rest of the world. There are some people that do that, but not much..

EU EDC kit: keys, phone, documents. Hardcore ones carry a swiss army knife (nonlockable blade)..

[Fungus]

EU EDC kit: keys, phone, documents. Hardcore ones carry a swiss army knife (nonlockable blade)..

The swiss army minichamp is tiny, there's no excuse not to carry one considering how useful it is. 

https://www.swissarmy.com/us/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Small-Pocket-Knives/Mini-Champ/p/0.6385#

Knife, scissors, both types of screwdriver, tweezers, bottle opener and pen - all get used constantly

(it could be improved - they need to make a hardcore version with a saw and file instead of the orange peeler and manicure thing).

[Neutrion]

+1 for orange backlight generally. But the warm white on the BM789 is also nice.

As for EDC: One can get pretty fast used to taking shower with the 9mm. (As we all know, the attackers always coming from behind the shower curtain.) But what always annoys me, is the parachute getting wet.

[AVGresponding]

I would feel sorry for anyone trying to use the flashlight on this meter.  It's objectively terrible.  Just get a headlamp or a clip-on light.  LEDs and flashlights have come so far in the last 10+ years.  (Also, "EDC" is a thing.)

Just another thing to carry around and have to remember to either keep charged up or carry spare batteries for.

My own personal use case for a jaw mounted light on my clamp meter may be a marginal one, but when you need it, you need it.

Time worn sparky aphorism "Better to be looking at it, than looking for it!"

Time to take things up a notch.  How hard is it to remember to charge your flashlight?  Or just carry more than one.  I've been carrying multitools/knives and flashlights since I was a wee lad.  Can't ever go back.  Attached is my current EDC (every day carry) loadout (top row goes in the sheath).  All the lights are 4.2V Li-ion.  Two smaller are ~350-500lm, mid ~1,000lm, largest is ~4,000lm. The larger light does live in an outer jacket/layer (along with the 9mm unless I'm concealed).  Not shown is my relatively minimalist wallet and of course cell phone.

I can have over 150kg of tools to lug around, depending on the job I'm asked to do. I rarely need all of them, I usually carry a selection, and various head-torches and work lights can be included.

They aren't always, and when they aren't and something crops up where you have to get the job done with the tools you have, a clamp meter with a decent jaw light is better than one with no light at all.

If I only had my Fluke T5-1000, Chauvin-Arnoux F21, or RS-Pro 5601 with me then I'd likely use my phone as a light, but that holds its own risks (usually to the phone's screen).

[PushUp]

I am considering buying a Keysight U1233A but never used a dmm with these orange displays/ backlights. How are they compared to the traditional ones, easy to read in dim - poor lighting or not?
Thank you for all opinions.
Joe.

Allthough it is impossible to capture the "real" backlight colour on a picture, you get at least an impression. The blue of the Fluke is not that bright, but good enough to read. To be honest: the red of the U1233A is not that good as the orange of the U1272A, but better than any Brymen having only a short timer!!!

The left U1233A has the lowest backlight brightness and the right one the highest.



In the settings of the U1233A you can not only adjust the backlight brightness from Low to High in seven perfectly distinguished steps...



...but also the timer settings, which I always disable and yes, it is possible having the backlight always on and manually switching off:

Backlight.Timer from 15 to 99 seconds. with E = enabled...

"b.15.E"

"b.99.E"

...or simply "d" at the end for disabled = backlight always on; the 15 to 99 number is unimportant with the "d" at the end:

"b.15.d"

In contrast to the Fluke 117/179/87V with a Keysight you always have a real settings menu with any option you need! In contrast to Fluke, Keysight AutoRanges in DC, when measuring A, but it does not keep the last setting compared with a Brymen. *****

Cheers! 


***** Edit:

In order to be more precise as far as the Fluke 289 is concerned, as it is my favourite handheld DMM, despite the bad display, I have to add some lines, as XMAS is near and I don't want to be responsible for a bad buy, because I also pay attention to any detail:

When measuring A, it also switches back to AAC, when you have chosen one of the submeasurements before, such as: "AC+DC" or "AC, DC" or "DC, AC"!

However, as long as you only use the normal A measurement, such as AAC or ADC - but only in these settings with single display - the Fluke 289 keeps either AC or DC while measuring A, when switching off and on again (as long as your batteries are fine and you don't have a leaking super-cap). 

This "behaviour" of not keeping the "submeasurements with dual display mode" - Apple would call it a "feature", is definitely a disadvantage as it looses the benefit of doing recuring measurements while using the multiple display functionality!

By the way: for me the HMC8012 is the best alternative for a handheld DMM being always used on a bench, because it boots fast, has no fan and is therefore totally silent, has a perfect display contrast and readability and it always and forever keeps the last chosen measurement function, despite all saving-setting-possibilities you also have, when switching on again.
The Fluke 289 comes closest to this due to its extra power button, but with the disadvantages mentioned above; I don't like a benchtop DMM such as the Rigol DM3068, which always starts with DCV, because the benchtop DMM is ment to be used for recuring measurements, so that its annoying, to start with DCV while having the test leads in A and you need to load an A setting again and again...

-----

Also, I cannot stress it enough: The shown colours on the pictures are really not (!!!) the "real" colours: The U1233A is more like a darkish red, which is really sad, as the contrast between black and red is not that good as between orange and black, which makes the U1233A incomparable with the bigger brother's backlight and unfortunately inferior!!!



No matter, which brand you take, they mostly don't get it, that it is fine to make mistakes, as long as they change it as soon as possible, thus especially in this case it is absolutely no big deal to switch the LEDs with the orange ones and anything is fine, but they keep selling this shit over and over pretending it is the best solution - this behaviour sucks!!!

The END. 

[J-R]

Good job, PushUp, excellent comparison photo!

[J-R]

You're missing a helmet and a M16 and you're ready to deploy... 

You will be surprised, but outside of USA, people don't walk around ready for war. Gun included..
EDC is not a big thing in the rest of the world. There are some people that do that, but not much..

EU EDC kit: keys, phone, documents. Hardcore ones carry a swiss army knife (nonlockable blade)..

I think the US gets stereotyped a bit, I like carrying some gear with me but it's not as common as you might expect.
A lot of the stuff in that photo simply wasn't possible a decade ago so I take advantage where possible, and I recommend to others they do the same.
Went through the process to get a conceal carry permit so why not.  I work in a government building so can't bring it inside.  Hence the folding knife.

Coincidentally, the Hellcat is made in Croatia.

[2N3055]

You're missing a helmet and a M16 and you're ready to deploy... 

You will be surprised, but outside of USA, people don't walk around ready for war. Gun included..
EDC is not a big thing in the rest of the world. There are some people that do that, but not much..

EU EDC kit: keys, phone, documents. Hardcore ones carry a swiss army knife (nonlockable blade)..

I think the US gets stereotyped a bit, I like carrying some gear with me but it's not as common as you might expect.
A lot of the stuff in that photo simply wasn't possible a decade ago so I take advantage where possible, and I recommend to others they do the same.
Went through the process to get a conceal carry permit so why not.  I work in a government building so can't bring it inside.  Hence the folding knife.

Coincidentally, the Hellcat is made in Croatia.

I personally don't judge, to get that out of the way. Fact is that in many countries around the world, you can't get a permit without right cause, and very few countries have a concept of concealed permit at all.. So it's not a prejudice, simply facts.

I know about Hellcat, it is made by HS Produkt, original name is HS2000, that was designed as a serous weapon for military and police service. That is a compact version of the full size service weapon. We here have a long tradition of making superb weaponry. HS Produkt also makes a very modern assault rifle VHS..

[james_s]

I have several orange Keysights and a couple of older Agilents with the blue backlight.  What I've discovered is that the orange is better in low light environments because it doesn't interfere with night vision the way the blue on the older Agilents does, even if it is a pretty colour and has better contrast.  The recovery time from looking at the meter to working is a bit longer with those, I find.

Blue backlights are terrible. I have very little opinion about other colors, some are better than others but I could live with anything, except for blue. I thought blue LEDs were cool back when they first appeared because they were very novel, but that novelty quickly wore off. That deep saturated blue has many uses, but lighting things up directly is not one of them.

[25 CPS]

I have several orange Keysights and a couple of older Agilents with the blue backlight.  What I've discovered is that the orange is better in low light environments because it doesn't interfere with night vision the way the blue on the older Agilents does, even if it is a pretty colour and has better contrast.  The recovery time from looking at the meter to working is a bit longer with those, I find.

Blue backlights are terrible. I have very little opinion about other colors, some are better than others but I could live with anything, except for blue. I thought blue LEDs were cool back when they first appeared because they were very novel, but that novelty quickly wore off. That deep saturated blue has many uses, but lighting things up directly is not one of them.

One place I absolutely hate gratuitous amounts of blue lighting beyond the high beam indicator is car dash. Some Honda Civic models seem to be really bad for this.  Then there’s the plug-in voltmeters like this one that I’ve got in the kitchen as both a display and a night light is pretty awful:





The neon glow lamp in the little plug extender that gets past that thick cover plate that indicates it’s live is fine but the voltmeter at night is almost too much.  I’d love for this to be Keysight orange or a red or an amber, anything except that eye piercing night vision destroying blue.  I might take the thing apart and see if I can modify it.

[james_s]

I think the US gets stereotyped a bit, I like carrying some gear with me but it's not as common as you might expect.
A lot of the stuff in that photo simply wasn't possible a decade ago so I take advantage where possible, and I recommend to others they do the same.
Went through the process to get a conceal carry permit so why not.  I work in a government building so can't bring it inside.  Hence the folding knife.

Coincidentally, the Hellcat is made in Croatia.

I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I've seen a person other than a policeman openly carrying a firearm. I've known a few people who carry concealed and I've probably passed by many others on the street but it's not like the wild west. You can easily live your whole life in the USA and never touch a gun if it isn't something that interests you.

[james_s]

One place I absolutely hate gratuitous amounts of blue lighting beyond the high beam indicator is car dash. Some Honda Civic models seem to be really bad for this.  Then there’s the plug-in voltmeters like this one that I’ve got in the kitchen as both a display and a night light is pretty awful:

The high beam indicators on my cars are incandescent so they don't bother me, not nearly as harsh as blue LEDs. Aftermarket car stereos are terrible for this, I couldn't find one that was relatively conservative looking and didn't have blue lighting behind the buttons. I've been meaning to take the faceplate apart and modify it because I hate the blue.

[2N3055]

One place I absolutely hate gratuitous amounts of blue lighting beyond the high beam indicator is car dash. Some Honda Civic models seem to be really bad for this.  Then there’s the plug-in voltmeters like this one that I’ve got in the kitchen as both a display and a night light is pretty awful:

The high beam indicators on my cars are incandescent so they don't bother me, not nearly as harsh as blue LEDs. Aftermarket car stereos are terrible for this, I couldn't find one that was relatively conservative looking and didn't have blue lighting behind the buttons. I've been meaning to take the faceplate apart and modify it because I hate the blue.

I had several radios that use RGB LEDS and you can set the color from the menu..

[J-R]

I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I've seen a person other than a policeman openly carrying a firearm. I've known a few people who carry concealed and I've probably passed by many others on the street but it's not like the wild west. You can easily live your whole life in the USA and never touch a gun if it isn't something that interests you.

Well, we are fully off topic now, but yes, absolutely.  Also, for the benefit of those reading this from other countries, firearm laws in the US vary drastically from state to state, have illogical rules and exceptions and can be at odds with federal laws.
For many reasons it is smarter to conceal carry.  Open carry is for the woods or for 2nd amendment audits.
I'm a reasonable guy but sometimes I can't help myself:

[David Hess]

I only started carrying a "tactical" flashlight after many years of carrying a concealed firearm, which I have relied on twice to defend myself in 18 years so far.  It was this video which convinced me of the utility of a bright flashlight with strobe capability.

[rsjsouza]

I only started carrying a "tactical" flashlight after many years of carrying a concealed firearm, which I have relied on twice to defend myself in 18 years so far.  It was this video which convinced me of the utility of a bright flashlight with strobe capability.

John Correia's channel is a good one. Thanks for highlighting this video. I have several of these tactical flashlights inherited from my late dad and they will be put to good use now.

[tooki]

I think the US gets stereotyped a bit, I like carrying some gear with me but it's not as common as you might expect.
A lot of the stuff in that photo simply wasn't possible a decade ago so I take advantage where possible, and I recommend to others they do the same.
Went through the process to get a conceal carry permit so why not.  I work in a government building so can't bring it inside.  Hence the folding knife.

Coincidentally, the Hellcat is made in Croatia.

I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I've seen a person other than a policeman openly carrying a firearm. I've known a few people who carry concealed and I've probably passed by many others on the street but it's not like the wild west. You can easily live your whole life in the USA and never touch a gun if it isn't something that interests you.

I think it depends entirely on where in USA you are. Living in Maryland (where I lived the longest in USA), I never saw a gun. (Baltimore may be the former murder capital of the USA, but almost all of it is within a particular demographic, and within certain neighborhoods.)

I lived in NC as a kid, and you’d see guns now and then, but it was hunting rifles. Same with north Florida, where my grandma lived.

I’ve seen far more non-hunting-related open carry here in Switzerland, but that’s just because younger men have to go do their obligatory military service, so you routinely see them on the trains with their service weapons. Nobody bats an eye if they go into a shop at the station en route. Then again, they’re not allowed to carry ammo with them, so the chances of any of those rifles being loaded is negligible.

Switzerland is a funky place in that regard, in that it’s got a very high gun ownership rate (as in, percentage of households that own a gun), but a relatively low gun violence rate (high for western Europe, low compared to the rest of the world). But Switzerland is a country that has a healthy respect for guns, without the wacko-world gun fetishists* that have managed to completely steer the gun rights discussion in USA (despite the fact that they’re a minority even in USA!).

*Switzerland has a significantly higher percentage of households with a gun than USA. But the number of guns per capita in USA is far, far higher, so each gun-owning household in USA tends to own more guns. But apparently, even within USA there’s a huge disparity between the mean number of guns per gun-owning household and the median number of guns per gun-owning household, meaning that a comparatively small number of Americans have huge arsenals that drive up the mean. You don’t see people here with private armories…