Author Topic: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions  (Read 7124 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2021, 07:30:10 pm »
People tend to focus on the weapons but I would argue that the USA doesn't really have a weapon problem so much as we have a culture problem. We have a culture in which violence has long been seen as a legitimate method of resolving conflicts. It was not THAT long ago that the "wild west" with its lawless frontier towns was a real thing, much of Europe has had hundreds of years longer to become civilized. Much of Europe has also traditionally been very homogenized, whereas the USA has always been composed of a number of various groups that have not always melted together, with sometimes uneasy alliances. It's not entirely unlike the tribalism seen in parts of the middle east.
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2021, 12:02:14 am »
I think the US gets stereotyped a bit, I like carrying some gear with me but it's not as common as you might expect.
A lot of the stuff in that photo simply wasn't possible a decade ago so I take advantage where possible, and I recommend to others they do the same.
Went through the process to get a conceal carry permit so why not.  I work in a government building so can't bring it inside.  Hence the folding knife.

Coincidentally, the Hellcat is made in Croatia.

I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I've seen a person other than a policeman openly carrying a firearm. I've known a few people who carry concealed and I've probably passed by many others on the street but it's not like the wild west. You can easily live your whole life in the USA and never touch a gun if it isn't something that interests you.
I think it depends entirely on where in USA you are. Living in Maryland (where I lived the longest in USA), I never saw a gun. (Baltimore may be the former murder capital of the USA, but almost all of it is within a particular demographic, and within certain neighborhoods.)

I lived in NC as a kid, and you’d see guns now and then, but it was hunting rifles. Same with north Florida, where my grandma lived.

I’ve seen far more non-hunting-related open carry here in Switzerland, but that’s just because younger men have to go do their obligatory military service, so you routinely see them on the trains with their service weapons. Nobody bats an eye if they go into a shop at the station en route. Then again, they’re not allowed to carry ammo with them, so the chances of any of those rifles being loaded is negligible.

Switzerland is a funky place in that regard, in that it’s got a very high gun ownership rate (as in, percentage of households that own a gun), but a relatively low gun violence rate (high for western Europe, low compared to the rest of the world). But Switzerland is a country that has a healthy respect for guns, without the wacko-world gun fetishists* that have managed to completely steer the gun rights discussion in USA (despite the fact that they’re a minority even in USA!).

*Switzerland has a significantly higher percentage of households with a gun than USA. But the number of guns per capita in USA is far, far higher, so each gun-owning household in USA tends to own more guns. But apparently, even within USA there’s a huge disparity between the mean number of guns per gun-owning household and the median number of guns per gun-owning household, meaning that a comparatively small number of Americans have huge arsenals that drive up the mean. You don’t see people here with private armories…

It's gotten more polarized of late, with Texas being at one extreme. As of last month, it's now legal for most Texans to conceal carry in the state with no license or training. The no training is the scariest part. California is probably at the other end of the extreme, banning assault weapons almost entirely, using a definition of assault weapon that was initially overly inclusive (e.g. An Olympic shooter found that her custom competition weapon fell in that category because of where the magazine was located.)

Personally, I've never actually owned a gun, although I had an M14 in my closet for the late 1980's. State of Indiana had a huge surplus of them which were never legal to sell to civilians, but it was fine to loan them out (automatic fire selector was removed). I was range shooting with friends at Camp Atterbury at the time. I got decent at hitting targets with iron sights at 600 yards. 1000 yards not so much, my eyes aren't good enough. State even gave me boxes of surplus 7.62 ammo (1960's dates) to use. Was quite the deal at the time to get into the sport. I gave it back to the state when I moved west, so it was probably one of the half-million weapons destroyed in 1993-4.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2021, 02:22:39 am »
The assault weapons legislation has never made any sense to me at all. By the amount of attention they get you'd think so called assault rifles were involved in a huge percentage of gun crimes while in reality the number is less than one percent. I personally think they're kind of dumb since they are essentially fake military weapons, the firearm equivalent to your basic Honda or Subaru that has been dressed up like a race car. The overwhelming majority of gun violence in America involves mundane handguns. The class that gets the absolute least amount of attention. The problem is that so many people get so emotional about it on both sides that it is almost impossible to even have a rational debate. Another problem is that most people, at least the sort trying to legislate guns learned everything they know about them from watching movies, which means that almost none of their knowledge is grounded in reality.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 02:24:55 am by james_s »
 

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2021, 03:51:50 am »
Before Mods jump in and jump on us for gun talk, weapons are just tools like we have different pliers, screwdrivers, hammers, knives etc for different jobs firearms are exactly the same. I need a minimum of 4 types to suit my needs, just like pliers, screwdrivers, hammers, knives etc.............
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2021, 01:07:52 pm »
People tend to focus on the weapons but I would argue that the USA doesn't really have a weapon problem so much as we have a culture problem.

No argument there.

We have a culture in which violence has long been seen as a legitimate method of resolving conflicts.

I disagree with that one though. It seems to me more like a mix of easy availability combined with an incredible paranoia being deliberately created by:

a) The NRA (who need boogymen to justify their hobby)
b) People who make money from selling guns
c) People who make money from selling self defense courses
d) People who make money from selling "tactical furniture", etc.
e) A government who goes along with it because they know that selling "war" and xenophobia gets votes, plus the NRA pays good money for them to keep gun culture alive.

America is also a country that really really believes in push button gadgets as solutions to problems so the idea that simply buying a product makes them safer is appealing to a lot of people. The reality is that more people are killed by their own guns in their own home than by "home invaders".

(I don't think the phrase "home invasion" even exists in most countries).

I watch youtube channels like "Demolition Ranch" but I'd be prepared to live without that if I thought it would get the guns out of the hands of the idiots.

FWIW, I'm with Jim:



« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 01:42:25 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Neutrion

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2021, 04:53:26 pm »
It was not THAT long ago that the "wild west" with its lawless frontier towns was a real thing, much of Europe has had hundreds of years longer to become civilized. Much of Europe has also traditionally been very homogenized, whereas the USA has always been composed of a number of various groups that have not always melted together, with sometimes uneasy alliances. It's not entirely unlike the tribalism seen in parts of the middle east.
Well, it is kind of a good old tradition than. :) But I disagree with the homogenization. The case is actually the opposite.
Now without google first guess which 2-3 big cities in the world apart from war zones have the highest amount of gun violence? (And violence with explosives.) After maybe the first being Mexico, the second 2-3 are in Europe!. And than compare that with the changing level of homogenization in that single country!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2021, 07:21:21 pm »
America is also a country that really really believes in push button gadgets as solutions to problems so the idea that simply buying a product makes them safer is appealing to a lot of people. The reality is that more people are killed by their own guns in their own home than by "home invaders".

Only if you pad the statistics massively by including suicides, which is a fancy way of lying because our suicide rate is not especially high. When you realize that a country like Japan which has almost no civilian gun ownership has a higher suicide rate than the USA, it becomes obvious that guns don't cause suicide, they are just the most convenient tool at hand, take them away and people pick up a different tool. Unless you deliberately choose to harm yourself, owning a firearm does not increase your chance of being killed.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2021, 12:18:34 am »
It was not THAT long ago that the "wild west" with its lawless frontier towns was a real thing, much of Europe has had hundreds of years longer to become civilized. Much of Europe has also traditionally been very homogenized, whereas the USA has always been composed of a number of various groups that have not always melted together, with sometimes uneasy alliances. It's not entirely unlike the tribalism seen in parts of the middle east.
Well, it is kind of a good old tradition than. :) But I disagree with the homogenization. The case is actually the opposite.
Now without google first guess which 2-3 big cities in the world apart from war zones have the highest amount of gun violence? (And violence with explosives.) After maybe the first being Mexico, the second 2-3 are in Europe!. And than compare that with the changing level of homogenization in that single country!
I couldn't find a worldwide rank of gun violence per city but instead homicides in general, and my initial guess was that Europe wouldn't be anywhere near there: indeed, apart from three, the top twenty are 100% in Latin America with the sad concentration in Mexico and my home country of Brasil.

Regardless, I personally don't think that homogenization has happened anywhere, especially Europe. Ethnic differences, local an national rivalries and the old sin of greed triggered the world's biggest wars in history.

Regarding the US gun discussion, the NRA is much less representative than your run of the mill news organization makes you believe. The "bogey man" is fully fabricated by both sides and takes shape in different ways: one side says the "attackers to the constitution", the other side says "assault weapons". The real actors and victims of the gun violence in the US are in the ethnic and racial minority neighbourhoods that kill and wound much more than the news organizations let out.
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2021, 02:04:47 am »
I only started carrying a "tactical" flashlight after many years of carrying a concealed firearm, which I have relied on twice to defend myself in 18 years so far.  It was this video which convinced me of the utility of a bright flashlight with strobe capability.

John Correia's channel is a good one. Thanks for highlighting this video. I have several of these tactical flashlights inherited from my late dad and they will be put to good use now.

I think what changed is that high performance LEDs now make it possible to have a flashlight with enough intensity to be blinding in a package small enough to carry comfortable in a pocket, and they are not even all that expensive.

It's gotten more polarized of late, with Texas being at one extreme. As of last month, it's now legal for most Texans to conceal carry in the state with no license or training. The no training is the scariest part. California is probably at the other end of the extreme, banning assault weapons almost entirely, using a definition of assault weapon that was initially overly inclusive (e.g. An Olympic shooter found that her custom competition weapon fell in that category because of where the magazine was located.)

Texas has a reputation for being "firearm friendly", however they are only now catching up with 20 other states as far as permit-less concealed carry.  Up until recently, Texas has been one of the more restrictive states.

America is also a country that really really believes in push button gadgets as solutions to problems so the idea that simply buying a product makes them safer is appealing to a lot of people. The reality is that more people are killed by their own guns in their own home than by "home invaders".

One of my teachers who had a medical license liked to say that American medicine came down to either drug it, or cut it out.

It was not THAT long ago that the "wild west" with its lawless frontier towns was a real thing, much of Europe has had hundreds of years longer to become civilized. Much of Europe has also traditionally been very homogenized, whereas the USA has always been composed of a number of various groups that have not always melted together, with sometimes uneasy alliances. It's not entirely unlike the tribalism seen in parts of the middle east.

The violence of the "wild west" is consistently exaggerated, but the lack of a homogenized culture does lead to increased violence.  The US has a violence problem, not a firearm problem, unless someone can explain how the availability of firearms also increases violence associated with all other weapons.

I couldn't find a worldwide rank of gun violence per city but instead homicides in general, and my initial guess was that Europe wouldn't be anywhere near there: indeed, apart from three, the top twenty are 100% in Latin America with the sad concentration in Mexico and my home country of Brasil.

That kind of comparison can be tricky because crimes are not reported uniformly.  Homicide in the US is exactly that, any death caused by another person.  But for instance the UK (well, England and Wales at least) does not count it unless someone is convicted.

Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 03:40:06 am by David Hess »
 
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2021, 09:54:06 am »
It was not THAT long ago that the "wild west" with its lawless frontier towns was a real thing, much of Europe has had hundreds of years longer to become civilized. Much of Europe has also traditionally been very homogenized, whereas the USA has always been composed of a number of various groups that have not always melted together, with sometimes uneasy alliances. It's not entirely unlike the tribalism seen in parts of the middle east.
Well, it is kind of a good old tradition than. :) But I disagree with the homogenization. The case is actually the opposite.
Now without google first guess which 2-3 big cities in the world apart from war zones have the highest amount of gun violence? (And violence with explosives.) After maybe the first being Mexico, the second 2-3 are in Europe!. And than compare that with the changing level of homogenization in that single country!
I couldn't find a worldwide rank of gun violence per city but instead homicides in general, and my initial guess was that Europe wouldn't be anywhere near there: indeed, apart from three, the top twenty are 100% in Latin America with the sad concentration in Mexico and my home country of Brasil.

Regardless, I personally don't think that homogenization has happened anywhere, especially Europe. Ethnic differences, local an national rivalries and the old sin of greed triggered the world's biggest wars in history.

Mostly in the 3 largest cities and its suburbs in Sweden there are yearly way more than 300 shootings, and about 150-160 explosions with most of them being handgranades, but sometimes more poweful stuff.
Though there are relatively few people dying, like 40-50 only, but you wont get anywhere near these numbers in any other major cities in the world. How the whole international press is ignoring it, is a mistery.
If one handgranade would go off in Berlin, the  press would not stop covering it for a week.

And regarding the terms we are using indeed there is a difference between homogeNIZED and homogeNOUS.  So I might just had a problem with the proper term.

 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2021, 11:13:34 am »
I only started carrying a "tactical" flashlight after many years of carrying a concealed firearm, which I have relied on twice to defend myself in 18 years so far.  It was this video which convinced me of the utility of a bright flashlight with strobe capability.

John Correia's channel is a good one. Thanks for highlighting this video. I have several of these tactical flashlights inherited from my late dad and they will be put to good use now.

I think what changed is that high performance LEDs now make it possible to have a flashlight with enough intensity to be blinding in a package small enough to carry comfortable in a pocket, and they are not even all that expensive.
Indeed. Not only that, but also the LiIon batteries pack a lot of punch as well and, being rechargeable, lower the TCO to regular levels.


It's gotten more polarized of late, with Texas being at one extreme. As of last month, it's now legal for most Texans to conceal carry in the state with no license or training. The no training is the scariest part. California is probably at the other end of the extreme, banning assault weapons almost entirely, using a definition of assault weapon that was initially overly inclusive (e.g. An Olympic shooter found that her custom competition weapon fell in that category because of where the magazine was located.)

Texas has a reputation for being "firearm friendly", however they are only now catching up with 20 other states as far as permit-less concealed carry.  Up until recently, Texas has been one of the more restrictive states.
Not only that but, apart from what "Bowling for Columbine" showed, to get a gun legally is not a walk in the park.


I couldn't find a worldwide rank of gun violence per city but instead homicides in general, and my initial guess was that Europe wouldn't be anywhere near there: indeed, apart from three, the top twenty are 100% in Latin America with the sad concentration in Mexico and my home country of Brasil.

That kind of comparison can be tricky because crimes are not reported uniformly.  Homicide in the US is exactly that, any death caused by another person.  But for instance the UK (well, England and Wales at least) does not count it unless someone is convicted.
Indeed. Not only the "officially accepted" constitution of a crime but also what goes unreported. In the countries I know, crime is well underreported especially if there is no homicide. Not only that, but in areas where drug lords rule, even homicides go unreported. To bring this closer to US, take the current problems at the Southern border where nobody really knows how many people go missing in the Sonora Desert, for example.

I couldn't find a worldwide rank of gun violence per city but instead homicides in general, and my initial guess was that Europe wouldn't be anywhere near there: indeed, apart from three, the top twenty are 100% in Latin America with the sad concentration in Mexico and my home country of Brasil.

Regardless, I personally don't think that homogenization has happened anywhere, especially Europe. Ethnic differences, local an national rivalries and the old sin of greed triggered the world's biggest wars in history.
Mostly in the 3 largest cities and its suburbs in Sweden there are yearly way more than 300 shootings, and about 150-160 explosions with most of them being handgranades, but sometimes more poweful stuff.
Though there are relatively few people dying, like 40-50 only, but you wont get anywhere near these numbers in any other major cities in the world. How the whole international press is ignoring it, is a mistery.
If one handgranade would go off in Berlin, the  press would not stop covering it for a week.
Indeed the reporting seems quite unbalanced - but as the discussion above goes, the crime reporting can vary greatly and have quite different levels of accuracy - how accurate is the number for 300 shootings? Does it count someone shooting birds or to the air? That is quite difficult. Well, as you are talking about Sweden, I imagine the reporting/counting is much better than a country like Brasil.  :)

I know in Brasil the number of armed robberies and non-lethal shootings skyrockets pretty quickly, especially in the areas controlled by the drug cartels. It is a no man's land and therefore impossible to get accurate numbers.
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2021, 02:15:47 pm »

Indeed the reporting seems quite unbalanced - but as the discussion above goes, the crime reporting can vary greatly and have quite different levels of accuracy - how accurate is the number for 300 shootings? Does it count someone shooting birds or to the air? That is quite difficult. Well, as you are talking about Sweden, I imagine the reporting/counting is much better than a country like Brasil.  :)


Yes, 20-30 years ago nobody reported these "bird shootings" only these days :))
 But no, weapon laws in Sweden are very strickt just like in most of the countries in Europe and no one is shooting around with live ammo especially in big cities.  Not even gas guns are allowed. And I doubt it would be recorded officially as a firefight without investigation just because someone called the police. They are not idiots.
In the swedish news you can read about these firefights regularly, it is not just a statistic appearing somwhere. Just all this doesn't makes to the news outside Sweden.


Although for the NRA it would have quiet a PR value in the US to point out a country where even a pepper spray is considered as a weapong worth of a prison sentence, so almost no legal handguns at all, still, somehow there are more shootings than in any big US city....
And yes, the grenades are also illegal in Sweden, before someone asks, and people are not using frags for recreational purposes.
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2021, 03:44:55 am »
I think what changed is that high performance LEDs now make it possible to have a flashlight with enough intensity to be blinding in a package small enough to carry comfortable in a pocket, and they are not even all that expensive.

Indeed. Not only that, but also the LiIon batteries pack a lot of punch as well and, being rechargeable, lower the TCO to regular levels.

I do not think the performance of Lithium-Ion and related batteries matter for this.  High discharge rate NiCd cells were available long before lithium-ion cells and could have been used, albeit with a shorter but sufficient operating time.  What was missing was a suitable efficient and high power density lamp.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2021, 05:07:31 am »
I still remember the first time I got my hands on a 1W Luxeon Star LED, that was only about 20 years ago, I was absolutely amazed by the blinding brightness. Of course now that little 1W LED would appear anemic.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2021, 08:39:12 pm »
I think what changed is that high performance LEDs now make it possible to have a flashlight with enough intensity to be blinding in a package small enough to carry comfortable in a pocket, and they are not even all that expensive.

Indeed. Not only that, but also the LiIon batteries pack a lot of punch as well and, being rechargeable, lower the TCO to regular levels.

I do not think the performance of Lithium-Ion and related batteries matter for this.  High discharge rate NiCd cells were available long before lithium-ion cells and could have been used, albeit with a shorter but sufficient operating time.  What was missing was a suitable efficient and high power density lamp.
I had quite a few high discharge NiCd cells but the relative cost and endurace of such power delivery units in very small packages was very unfavourable. Leave a NiCd half charged in any short-term use apparatus such as a flashlight and you had a very short lived battery.
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2021, 09:42:10 pm »
I had quite a few high discharge NiCd cells but the relative cost and endurace of such power delivery units in very small packages was very unfavourable. Leave a NiCd half charged in any short-term use apparatus such as a flashlight and you had a very short lived battery.

I do not know why that would have been unless they were being damaged by overcharging, which was quite common.  Charge condition should have very little effect on operating life.  The NiCd cells I used supported more charge/discharge cycles than currently available lithium-ion cells, rated at 500 at most, and failure tended to be through shorts caused by dendrite growth after years.  "Consumer grade" paste cells for the highest possible capacity were less reliable.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2021, 10:46:03 pm »
NiCd and earlier NiMH cells as well had quite high self discharge rates. I never used rechargeable batteries in flashlights until LSD NiMH and Li-ion appeared. I tried the standard cells early on but found my flashlight was often dead when I needed it.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Keysight dmm orange backlight opinions
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2021, 03:26:01 am »
High temperature rated NiCd cells, which overlapped high discharge cells, also had lower self discharge rates.  I do not know that they were as good as low discharge NiMH cells, but they were a lot better than standard NiMH cells.  The cost was lower capacity because with a thicker separator, there was less volume for active material.

 


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