Keysight DMM - Yay or nay?

[mawyatt]

Hi Bram,

I've disconnected everything for the network and just tried to use the Web Server. I can get to the KS34465A, but have to try a couple times, can ping it and get good results, KS LAN Status on KS indicates Good. However the mentioned error message (Application Error.....) appears on the KS screen in a window and can't be removed, but not on the Web Server screen at my computer. Can't figure out how to remove it on the KS screen without recycling power.

This is the same result as when other devices are connected to network and they all work without any errors or error messages, so very annoying!!

Keysight has provided no support so far, par for what others have indicated. We have a small 3 person research company, Wyatt Labs LLC, employees are me, myself and I

Best,

[Cerebus]

Hi Bram,

I've disconnected everything for the network and ...

I'm going to follow this up over in the existing thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/web-issue-with-ks34465a/msg4032790/#msg4032790) to avoid sidetracking this thread more.

[Domitronic]

- buying one supports Danaher (though I'd not want to support KS's new business model right now either)

It is Fortive now. Was spun off from Danaher 5 or 6 years ago.

[pope]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far.

@Kleinstein, @Cerebus, @bob91343: I do know that DMM capacitance mode is not the holy grail, for me it is merely a convenience function. For instance when I do replace caps I like to do a quick and dirty check on the replacement cap just to see if capacitance is in the right ball-park. I already own a proper LCR-Meter (Matrix MCR-5200), but for simple stuff like that I tend to just use the DMM and don't bother to grab the LCR-leads out of the drawer and hook them up.

Sorry for the off-topic but how do you like the mcr-5200?

[Joop01]

I just want to bring in the GW-Instek GDM-906x Series with two types namely GDM- GDM-9060 and the  GDM-9061
What do you guys think of them?

Hey Markus, thanks for bringing these meters to my attention. I took a quick look at the GDM-9061's specs and it seems that the Siglent SDM 3065X is more accurate, also the Siglent has 2200000 counts vs the 1200000 counts of the GWInstek plus the GDM-906x models seem to be more expensive. Unless the GWInstek has some trick up its sleeve that I missed while skimming over the specs the SDM 3065X would be the better option.

I'm busy with my choice. I do audio, so ACV or better said the standard 0.775V or the reference 0dBu. The Siglent SDM 3065X has in the end an error of +/-0,16% for measuring 0.775V. The Gw-Instek GDM-9061 has a calculated error of +/- 0,10% for measuring 0.775V. The difference has much to do with the range you have to use. With Siglent this is 2 Volt and with Gw-Instek it is 1 Volt. So counts does not say it all.

[2N3055]

I just want to bring in the GW-Instek GDM-906x Series with two types namely GDM- GDM-9060 and the  GDM-9061
What do you guys think of them?

Hey Markus, thanks for bringing these meters to my attention. I took a quick look at the GDM-9061's specs and it seems that the Siglent SDM 3065X is more accurate, also the Siglent has 2200000 counts vs the 1200000 counts of the GWInstek plus the GDM-906x models seem to be more expensive. Unless the GWInstek has some trick up its sleeve that I missed while skimming over the specs the SDM 3065X would be the better option.

I'm busy with my choice. I do audio, so ACV or better said the standard 0.775V or the reference 0dBu. The Siglent SDM 3065X has in the end an error of +/-0,16% for measuring 0.775V. The Gw-Instek GDM-9061 has a calculated error of +/- 0,10% for measuring 0.775V. The difference has much to do with the range you have to use. With Siglent this is 2 Volt and with Gw-Instek it is 1 Volt. So counts does not say it all.

Could you please be so kind and explain how did you calculate that error for SDM3065X and at what frequency?
At 10Hz-20kHz range (where it is best) it has 1 year accuracy of 0.06% of the read value +0.03% of range..

I end up with 0,14% for SDM3065 .... and GDM-9061 comes out at 0.1% like you said.

Of course that is worst case 1 year spec.. Both will do better in real life.

And also while 0dBµ is the reference , if you need to measure 6dBµ, SDM3065 will do that one better...

[Joop01]

It is a little better for the SDM 3065X, mixed up two readings  , its now 0,14%, but still not the value of the GDM-9061. Yes, took the frequency 10Hz-20kHz. Problem here is that 2.200.000 is not better than 1.200.000. Both have as second digit a "2", a "7" won't fit. So both "2" will be zero and the first "0" will be used for the first "7". So in both dmm's you have 5 figures for the actual measurement. As Siglent has a range of 2 the error for correction of range will also be double. The GwInstek has a range of 1 and does profit in this way because the error for correction of range is only single. Yes, I took 1 year spec (I don't call it worst) because that will be more realistic for the hobbyist. If you want 90days then remember that all calculations has to be done same way. I don't advice 24hours, you never get your instrument 24 hours after calibrating. Nice for advertising. There is an other thing which can be found as "loading errors". GwInstek stays 10MOhm, but the Siglent has with 10kHz already an input resistance of 160kOhm (page 92). This can add up to the total error. Have to work out what it will do with other known audio levels.

[2N3055]

It is a little better for the SDM 3065X, mixed up two readings  , its now 0,14%, but still not the value of the GDM-9061. Yes, took the frequency 10Hz-20kHz. Problem here is that 2.200.000 is not better than 1.200.000. Both have as second digit a "2", a "7" won't fit. So both "2" will be zero and the first "0" will be used for the first "7". So in both dmm's you have 5 figures for the actual measurement. As Siglent has a range of 2 the error for correction of range will also be double. The GwInstek has a range of 1 and does profit in this way because the error for correction of range is only single. Yes, I took 1 year spec (I don't call it worst) because that will be more realistic for the hobbyist. If you want 90days then remember that all calculations has to be done same way. I don't advice 24hours, you never get your instrument 24 hours after calibrating. Nice for advertising. There is an other thing which can be found as "loading errors". GwInstek stays 10MOhm, but the Siglent has with 10kHz already an input resistance of 160kOhm (page 92). This can add up to the total error. Have to work out what it will do with other known audio levels.

I was just confused by math.. that is all.. Thanks for responding.

2.200 000 is not better than 1.200 000 but different. At 0dBµV GW Instek will have slightly better guaranteed accuracy. At 6dBµV it will have to range one range up and will lose a digit.. In which case Siglent will be better..
It is highly important where on the scale do you measure. You could do a better job with a 5.5 digit meter in "happy range" than 6.5 digit meter that has to range up..

For instance, when measuring 12V car electronics (8 -18V range), meters with 20V range will do better for that range, not to mention, that relative measurements are much more accurate in single range. For relative measurements in single range, you can use 24H specs.

As for GW Instek "staying 10 MΩ" are you sure about that?
Pure resistive 10 MΩ ?

GW Instek Manual states 1MΩ//100pF... that's 157 something kΩ |Z| at 10kHz  ..... page 373

[Joop01]

As for GW Instek "staying 10 MΩ" are you sure about that?
Pure resistive 10 MΩ ?

GW Instek Manual states 1MΩ//100pF... that's 157 something kΩ |Z| at 10kHz  ..... page 373

No, its not in the manual and the one I have does have 368 pages. You have a choice between 10M or 10G, this could mean that they have split the input stage in two, first 10M/10G and in the second stage what you will find normally up front. I seen this more in diy input dividers which show then similar results, but of course this is very speculative.
I have to check your remark about 5.5 digit meter, but in my spreadsheet sits also R&S HMC8012 and it has the worst specs. I wanted to know if this meter was better, but its not, the only thing which stays is the double read out with stats. As meters will break you can ask yourself if its wise to settle for special setups which can't be replaced that easily. Thanks for your reply.