Author Topic: Keysight Scary Letter  (Read 51563 times)

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Online bd139

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #525 on: October 10, 2019, 10:23:03 pm »
If you don’t know what it is tell them to take it away. Don’t have to sign for mail. Return to sender. Their problem  :-DD
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #526 on: October 10, 2019, 10:29:02 pm »
Just my very brief view of this current development........

1. If the equipment had presented a health and safety risk......

It would have been dealt with quicker than this.

2. If the equipment contained sensitive or even classified data.....

It would have been dealt with quicker than this and likely the nature of the issue kept from the new owner to reduce the risk of downloading, copying or dissemination.

3. If someone is in the POO for incorrectly processing equipment that was meant to be destroyed according to a contractual obligation........

Such matters end up taking time to sort out as there will be meetings, discussions between involved parties, more meetings and eventually a decision on the way forwards to correct the situation in a satisfactory manner. Such decisions can involve a significant amount of money, lawyers, managers and time wasting !


I see the current letter from Veolia as the output of scenario 3.

This matter has taken too long to be satisfactorily resolved and such suggests this is a procedural action and has no basis in law. In my opinion a nil response is justified. Only if real, lawyer documented, legal claim is made on the equipment are you needing to consider opening communications again.

As for emails followed by a recorded delivery letter.... that is just normal practice as an email is not guaranteed to be read by the intended recipient and read receipts are not proof of who opened the email.

If someone hopes to gain financial advantage out of this situation, remember Veolia is not known for being a generous company and, unlike Keysight, likely cares little about your view of them as a company. Expect them to play hard ball and offer you only what you paid for the item including postage, or at best, an independent valuation of the equipment in the current market. I suspect there will be no offers of replacement equipment as the discussions appear to have moved away from Keysight involvement.

Fraser
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Offline cruff

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #527 on: October 10, 2019, 11:28:53 pm »
It's actually best not to respond at all unless you get something via registered post...

Registered post does not, by itself, impose any conditions on the addressee, beyond proving it was received by someone, who may or may not be the addressee.  An extra service may be available, such as restricted delivery, in which case there may or may not be any specific requirements as to what type of proof was used to identify the person who signed was actually the addressee. In some jurisdictions, there may be additional requirements for delivery of legal summons that preclude the use of registered post.
 

Offline bson

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #528 on: October 11, 2019, 01:44:40 am »
Send them an invoice for $25k to make you whole, along with a note that once you're received payment they can come pick up the equipment at any time.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #529 on: October 11, 2019, 10:58:50 am »
I have been thinking on this matter today and it reminded me of email ping pong that occurred in my job. It was often faster and more productive to either talk on the phone or have a meeting to thrash out details that could then be captured in a summary email or meeting minutes.

It might be worth contacting the sender of the Veolia letter (Les Harold) and having a friendly chat about the situation. Emails and letters often have to be approved in such cases and can be overly formal. It might enable him to be less formal in his wording and you can determine what a Veolia are considering by way of suitable compensation. Sometimes it is good to talk. If they decline your invitation to discuss the matter, raise the ‘draw bridge’ lower the ‘Port Cullis’ and take on siege mentality  ;)

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 11:00:32 am by Fraser »
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Online Jwalling

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #530 on: October 17, 2019, 06:06:48 pm »
Update. Got a phone call from Les Harold yesterday. Since I get WAY too many robo-calls on my cell phone, I always screen them and so didn't answer. He left a voice mail to call him back.

No way I was going to call - I want this documented, so instead, I emailed him.

He's offering $835 for the 54831B. I paid $910 with shipping, and had to perform some repairs as well.  :-- That's not happening.
To be continued...
Jay

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Offline Fraser

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #531 on: October 17, 2019, 06:20:56 pm »
Off topic but just a bit of fun on a similar vein regarding sensitive or corporate data/property.

I just bought a circa 2011 rugged Tablet from an IT recycler on eBay.

It arrived with its SSD and OS intact and was the original install. It has had some files simply deleted so they can be recovered. So what ? You may say...... well this little tablet turns out to have been used with thermal cameras for tyre temperature monitoring for a VERY famous F1 Racing Team ! The driver of the car during the period of use was very famous indeed. All the deleted data is just sitting there waiting to be recovered by Recuva software. 53000 files in total !

That Tablet should not have left the F1 team with its SSD fitted ! It even has the Teams private “PitChat” client still present plus, presumably, the “chat” used on it.

I am awaiting the arrival of representatives of the F1 team wanting their data back  ;D It just so happens the neighbour opposite my house works for the very same F1 racing team !

Small World :)

Now back to the Keysight debacle.........

Fraser
Cogito, ergo sum
 
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Online radiolistener

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #532 on: October 17, 2019, 07:01:39 pm »
He's offering $835 for the 54831B. I paid $910 with shipping, and had to perform some repairs as well.  :-- That's not happening.
To be continued...

don't agree for less than $3000 + a new 1 GHz bandwidth Keysight oscilloscope replacement + some gift Keysight accessories  :popcorn:
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #533 on: October 17, 2019, 07:16:57 pm »
Standard used equipment trade to retail mark up would be 100% so the offer they have made is as poor as I expected it to be. I suspect they will be challenging to negotiate with as they likely have absolutely no understanding of the value of the equipment to the current owner. They are in for an education !

Fraser
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Online Stray Electron

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #534 on: October 17, 2019, 08:14:35 pm »
Update. Got a phone call from Les Harold yesterday. Since I get WAY too many robo-calls on my cell phone, I always screen them and so didn't answer. He left a voice mail to call him back.

No way I was going to call - I want this documented, so instead, I emailed him.

He's offering $835 for the 54831B. I paid $910 with shipping, and had to perform some repairs as well.  :-- That's not happening.
To be continued...

  Wow! The original letter was send on Jan 24th so it's taken them almost 9 months to respond!  IMO that attorney should be reported to the Bar Association for professional misconduct.

   $835?  That's an insult. That would be the end of the conversation as far as I'm concerned. Some people just aren't in touch with reality and it's not worth wasting your time trying to deal with them.  In the mean time, I wonder how much he's charged HP/ Agilent/ Keysight for doing absolutely nothing?
 

Online Stray Electron

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #535 on: October 17, 2019, 08:31:00 pm »
[
If someone hopes to gain financial advantage out of this situation, remember Veolia is not known for being a generous company and, unlike Keysight, likely cares little about your view of them as a company. Expect them to play hard ball and offer you only what you paid for the item including postage, or at best, an independent valuation of the equipment in the current market. I suspect there will be no offers of replacement equipment as the discussions appear to have moved away from Keysight involvement.

Fraser
[/quote]

   The difference in this situation is that this isn't E-bay or Craigslist and no one here is trying to sell their equipment so if Veolia wants it then they're going to have to make an offer that the present owner can't refuse.  IMO Keysight must want this equipment pretty badly if they're willing to hire a law firm in an effort to get it. Every one of those letters that was sent out probably costs Keysight at least $500.  OTOH perhaps all they're interested in doing is "making a good faith effort" to recover the items and that all they intend to do is to send an intimidating letter and then make a lowball offer and seeing what they can get and they're not really serious about trying to recover the items.
 

Online jjoonathan

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #536 on: October 17, 2019, 08:40:58 pm »
Yeah, after a few months of no followup I assumed they weren't actually interested in recovering the equipment and just wanted to be able to claim they tried.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #537 on: October 17, 2019, 10:16:50 pm »
The difference in this situation is that this isn't E-bay or Craigslist and no one here is trying to sell their equipment ...
Indeed. This is a very important point! 
A "fair market value" does not represent adequate compensation for an item that the owner has no interest in selling.  The true value to the current owner is something that no outsider can dictate - and the factors that determine that value.

Those factors can include the value of the service such a piece of equipment provides, which is elevated where the equipment has been repaired and/or enhanced.  It also includes the fit into an established workflow.  (I have one piece of equipment that is old, but still works more than well enough and if I had to replace it with something different, I would have to completely redefine the workflow.)  Then you could throw in some less-than-tangible factors like sentimental attachment and aesthetics.

An organisational bean-counter might not give much credence to such - but they are real factors that affect the willingness of an owner to part with an item.

Quote
... so if Veolia wants it then they're going to have to make an offer that the present owner can't refuse.
This is the general approach that will be necessary - but I don't necessarily think it will need to be "an offer they can't refuse".  A "tempting offer" is where I see it going ... but, then, determining what will be "tempting" is the fun bit.
 

Online Bud

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #538 on: October 17, 2019, 10:52:39 pm »
Yeah, after a few months of no followup I assumed they weren't actually interested in recovering the equipment and just wanted to be able to claim they tried.
I am not surprised by how long it takes actually. Nothing happens quick in big companies. There are processes, inter-departments service level agreements, legal stuff, financing, approvals, etc. Do not assume the case is dying out.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #539 on: October 17, 2019, 11:19:28 pm »
When people get offered unrealistic amounts the case has died. Then there's nothing more to do than report you've done nothing and are all out of ideas.
 

Offline usagi

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #540 on: October 17, 2019, 11:23:47 pm »
He's offering $835 for the 54831B.

that's insulting and obnoxious. they can suck it.

Online Jwalling

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #541 on: October 18, 2019, 03:58:36 pm »
I countered via email at $1800.
Quote
We can honor the $1800.
  :-+

That was a lot easier than I thought it would be. ;D
Jay

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Offline Fraser

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #542 on: October 18, 2019, 05:03:18 pm »
 :-+
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #543 on: October 18, 2019, 05:25:10 pm »
Plus shipping. Don't forget that!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #544 on: October 18, 2019, 05:25:45 pm »
I countered via email at $1800.
Quote
We can honor the $1800.
  :-+

That was a lot easier than I thought it would be. ;D
As long as it does actually come through.. Might be interesting to see if they need you to sign anything.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #545 on: October 18, 2019, 07:02:54 pm »
It seems they were sandbagging but are prepared to play ball. Let's see how they handle the rest of it. It's unfortunate that it all took so long as that drains energy. It's not too uncommon to cut energy draining customers loose or charge them more which shows such a drain represents a tangible cost.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Keysight Scary Letter
« Reply #546 on: October 18, 2019, 07:34:47 pm »
Yeah i do that regularly. Buggers keep coming back  :-// :-DD

Good outcome though.
 


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