Author Topic: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win  (Read 22240 times)

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Online nctnico

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #75 on: July 29, 2016, 08:20:33 pm »
Can you scale and zoom/move the reference traces afterwards?
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #76 on: July 29, 2016, 08:30:25 pm »
Move, yes..... scale? Have not tried, checking it out now.

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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2016, 09:06:54 pm »
So yes, the REF waveforms can be moved/scaled. The crazy thing is that the scope crashed (full re-boot) when I was playing around with the REF waveforms. Possible that a glitchy USB stick could cause it to happen, going to find a new memory stick to try. Full on crashing has my eyes popping out of my head!

EDIT: I switched to a different USB stick. The one in the machine is really old and beat up - maybe a driver issue, physical issue? The scope is not crashing with the new one, but every time with the old one.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 09:16:17 pm by rx8pilot »
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Online nctnico

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2016, 09:21:26 pm »
So yes, the REF waveforms can be moved/scaled.
OK, so that is definitely an improved over the Agilent  DSO/MSO7000 series!
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2016, 09:24:16 pm »
Could be some race condition in the USB device driver that shows up on a faulty USB memory stick.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2016, 10:45:55 pm »
So yes, the REF waveforms can be moved/scaled.
OK, so that is definitely an improved over the Agilent  DSO/MSO7000 series!
The mso7000B series scope does not have a ref waveform, right?
It does not even have a REF button
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Online nctnico

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2016, 12:22:54 am »
My DSO7104A has ref waveforms for sure. You have to juggle around a bit with saving and loading waveform data (save / recall waveform). But it is not very useful. You basically get a finite persistence trace which you can't move or scale at all.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2016, 12:41:43 am »
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Online nctnico

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2016, 08:08:43 am »
But the reference trace is only what is on screen  :palm:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2016, 08:26:57 am »
Ahh, thanks for the explanation on the 7000b series scope ref waveform.

My old old Fluke/Philips PM3394B have a better Reference Waveform than any of these modern scopes. Kind of funny.
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2016, 12:24:37 pm »
But the reference trace is only what is on screen  :palm:

Yes, that's a bit daft. On the Infiniiums, when you save a trace, you're asked if you want to save the screen segment only or the whole trace in sample memory. You can also scale and move the stored traces.
 

Online Berni

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2016, 12:36:55 pm »

Yes, that's a bit daft. On the Infiniiums, when you save a trace, you're asked if you want to save the screen segment only or the whole trace in sample memory. You can also scale and move the stored traces.

 :-+

I do love how the infiniium scopes do it. Save a trace in memory, assign it to a math operation with a live channel trace, hide all of them except the math trace and then use the controls to move around it live just like it was a regular analog channel trace. And if you like you can also do FFT on the entire memory at the same time inside a sepeware waveform window while you wander around the waveform.

Its only needed in very rare cases but when it is needed it's just heaven.

Edit: Oh and every memory or math channel has a checkbox to chose if you want that trace to follow the vertical and horizontal controls of the analog channel that it is assigned to.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 12:40:42 pm by Berni »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2016, 03:51:42 pm »
But the reference trace is only what is on screen  :palm:

Yes, that's a bit daft. On the Infiniiums, when you save a trace, you're asked if you want to save the screen segment only or the whole trace in sample memory. You can also scale and move the stored traces.
Perhaps Keysight is trying to force people to buy their (even) more expensive scopes but meanwhile the low end scopes already have way better features than what Keysight offers unless you go way north of $50k. My DSO7104A is a great scope (don't get me wrong) but it makes me grind my teeth when I see the many ways in which my cheap GW Instek DSO works better and has more features.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Berni

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2016, 04:29:33 pm »
I don't think they are doing it on purpose. If you look back along the predecessors of the MSOX6000 you will notice they follow the same formula all the way back to the early ones with HP badges that used a green raster CRT for display. They have mostly the same menu structures and similar buttons on the front panel.

It appears that Keysight is simply sticking to a formula that works, upping the performance and adding a small feature or tweak here or there rather than making major changes Those scopes ware great instruments I will give them that, but the cheap Chinese competition is catching up fast.

A lot of modern companies are too risk averse. They rather do something that is proven to work and sell instead of inovating and risking the product might flop.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2016, 06:00:56 pm »
Perhaps Keysight is trying to force people to buy their (even) more expensive scopes

I doubt that's the motivator (and the Infiniium DSO-S is in the same price class as the DSO-X6004). As Berni said this is how Keysight/Agilent/HP has done it on its predecessor embedded scopes before, and this was more likely down to limitations in the hardware (memory/processor performance). The reason why these things weren't an issue in the 4+GHz scope class is that in this segment you'd normally find full Windows scopes with abundance of memory and CPU power. It's only now when Keysight essentially put a fast ADC and a wide front end into what at the end of the day essentially is an entry-level/lower mid-range platform and put that into the high-end market (which is probably why the DSO-X6k sells so badly).

Quote
but meanwhile the low end scopes already have way better features than what Keysight offers unless you go way north of $50k. My DSO7104A is a great scope (don't get me wrong) but it makes me grind my teeth when I see the many ways in which my cheap GW Instek DSO works better and has more features.

I agree, but then don't forget that the DSOX platform is now going into its 5th year, and obviously since then the competition in the low-end/entry level market has caught up, with faster platforms and more memory. But the DSOX2k, 4k and especially the 3k still sell well, and as long as they do I guess Keysight doesn't see a point in coming up with really new InfiniiVision scopes.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 06:10:17 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Keysight MSOX-6004A Test to Impress Win
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2016, 08:16:13 pm »
Some recent purchase of probes and an injection transformer will allow me to test drive the Power Application that is included with this scope. The hope is that I can avoid buying a dedicated Frequency Response Analyzer by getting a 'close enough' measurement with the scope. I still have a number of power projects to finish before I attempt any high-speed digital designs.

I purchased a LeCroy DA1855 100Mhz differential pre-amplifier for non-ground referenced measurements and very small signals common in the feedback loops of SMPS. It is also fantastic for measuring small and fast currents with sense resistors. I can use very small resistors and still get a measurment.
Looking for a second one of these, but I need to be patient for a reasonable deal.

2x DC current probes Tek A6302 20A 50Mhz with AM503B external amplifiers. These were a relative bargain as far as current probe go, but the amplifiers are massive. Considering I save a few $K, I will figure out how to arrange the bench for these.

2x 1:1 probes for looking at the small low frequency signals. Limited uses, but they will be handy periodically. Too cheap not to have them.

I am re-purposing a Jensen video transformer to use as an injection transformer similar to what Picotest and Ridley sell. The Pico transformer is $525 US - the Jensen is $18 on eBay. The bandwidth is not nearly as wide, but I don't need wide bandwidth as much as I need to save some money.

This should be a good start for measuring and analyzing SMPS, power distribution, eFuses, etc. The scopes FFT, power analysis tools, and dual channel function generator will allow reasonably advanced analysis with a single box. Seriously considering getting the Keysight Power Rail Probe N7020A http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2471132-pn-N7020A/power-rail-probe?cc=US&lc=eng
It is a relatively new design and not on the used market - may have to spring for full price on that one.

After that - high speed digital probes are next on my shopping list. The Agilent 1152A 2.5Ghz active single ended probes look like excellent day-to-day signal hunters and they are not expensive at all. Still a good distance from needing the full bandwidth 6Ghz probes which is good because those suckers are >$3k used EACH. I will look at those when I have a project starting so that I can have some revenue to cover the cost within a reasonable amount of time.
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