Products > Test Equipment
Keysight officially lost the plot - don't buy if you're a hobbyist
nctnico:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on January 13, 2022, 04:07:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 13, 2022, 02:24:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on January 13, 2022, 02:17:14 pm ---
The EU Consumer Sales and Guarantees Directive 1999/44/EC (CSGD) establishes the legal guarantee for consumer goods and regulates commercial guarantees. Sellers of consumer goods have to guarantee that the goods are in conformity with the contract for a minimum period of two years after the delivery of the goods.
Keysight appears to have reached the conclusion that they can't afford to offer a "forced" 2 year warranty on all their products to non-professional users.
So by requiring buyers to self-declare as "professional", they can limit the warranty to anything they want, and that the buyer agrees to.
--- End quote ---
But this does not apply to US non-commercial customers. I think it is much simpler than everyone is assuming and much less of a problem. Offering support straight from the factory costs money while a lot of sales are made through resellers. It makes way more sense to have support handled by their resellers; let them work for the margin they are making. I've bought all my Keysight gear through a reseller and their support never let me down.
--- End quote ---
In the case of the EU rules, it is the reseller that would have to deal with the 2 year conformance requirement for a consumer sale. Is that what the resellers want, if Keysight is not backing them with 2 years behind the scenes? ... I wouldn't, unless I could mark the price up enough to cover the risk for whatever time Keysight is not covering!
--- End quote ---
This is standard for all sales through resellers. Resellers have a markup anywhere between 30% to 95% where 30% is at the very low end. So the reseller has room to take a risk. On top of that many manufacturers offer a much longer warranty period. Lots of Keysight gear (including their low end handheld DMMs) comes with a standard 3 year warranty already which is another giant clue that EU warranty regulations have absolutely nothing to do with Keysight's decission to not offer support or sales to non-commercial customers. IIRC Tektronix also offers a 3 year warranty.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 13, 2022, 04:28:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 13, 2022, 12:23:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 13, 2022, 11:57:39 am ---
--- Quote from: metebalci on January 13, 2022, 07:14:14 am ---I have purchased something from Keysight ebay store almost a year ago. I was considering to purchase something else recently and I sent an offer yesterday. Then I have been asked the company name etc. and when I said it is for personal use, I am told they can only sell to companies.
--- End quote ---
This wasn't via eBay, right? Otherwise, Keysight would have no place in questioning this...
--- End quote ---
For what reason? A seller on Ebay can impose whatever restrictions for whatever reason they want!
--- End quote ---
I am not sure I follow. According to the link below eBay says that, once a sale is done, the seller is obligated to complete it following their process and give a reason.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/cancelling-transaction?id=4136&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5338108869&toolid=20001&mkevt=1
--- End quote ---
You are leaving out the fine print which basically says that an Ebay seller can cancel an order for any reason they see fit.
SilverSolder:
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 13, 2022, 05:11:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on January 13, 2022, 04:07:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 13, 2022, 02:24:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on January 13, 2022, 02:17:14 pm ---
The EU Consumer Sales and Guarantees Directive 1999/44/EC (CSGD) establishes the legal guarantee for consumer goods and regulates commercial guarantees. Sellers of consumer goods have to guarantee that the goods are in conformity with the contract for a minimum period of two years after the delivery of the goods.
Keysight appears to have reached the conclusion that they can't afford to offer a "forced" 2 year warranty on all their products to non-professional users.
So by requiring buyers to self-declare as "professional", they can limit the warranty to anything they want, and that the buyer agrees to.
--- End quote ---
But this does not apply to US non-commercial customers. I think it is much simpler than everyone is assuming and much less of a problem. Offering support straight from the factory costs money while a lot of sales are made through resellers. It makes way more sense to have support handled by their resellers; let them work for the margin they are making. I've bought all my Keysight gear through a reseller and their support never let me down.
--- End quote ---
In the case of the EU rules, it is the reseller that would have to deal with the 2 year conformance requirement for a consumer sale. Is that what the resellers want, if Keysight is not backing them with 2 years behind the scenes? ... I wouldn't, unless I could mark the price up enough to cover the risk for whatever time Keysight is not covering!
--- End quote ---
This is standard for all sales through resellers. Resellers have a markup anywhere between 30% to 95% where 30% is at the very low end. So the reseller has room to take a risk. On top of that many manufacturers offer a much longer warranty period. Lots of Keysight gear (including their low end handheld DMMs) comes with a standard 3 year warranty already which is another giant clue am that EU warranty regulations have absolutely nothing to do with Keysight's decission to not offer support or sales to non-commercial customers. IIRC Tektronix also offers a 3 year warranty.
--- End quote ---
Aaah very good. I buy your theory that it's all about moving the sales and post-sales support work over to the resellers.
Wonder why now, though, not 50 years ago or whatever? - maybe resellers have been complaining about Keysight's activities on eBay etc.
metebalci:
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 13, 2022, 11:57:39 am ---
--- Quote from: metebalci on January 13, 2022, 07:14:14 am ---I have purchased something from Keysight ebay store almost a year ago. I was considering to purchase something else recently and I sent an offer yesterday. Then I have been asked the company name etc. and when I said it is for personal use, I am told they can only sell to companies.
--- End quote ---
This wasn't via eBay, right? Otherwise, Keysight would have no place in questioning this...
--- End quote ---
It was via eBay, with their official store.
bson:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on January 13, 2022, 02:17:14 pm ---Keysight appears to have reached the conclusion that they can't afford to offer a "forced" 2 year warranty on all their products to non-professional users.
--- End quote ---
It's a LOT more than just a 2-year warranty.
[The] period for consumers to pull out of any distance purchase (e.g. some-thing bought online) or off-premises purchase (such as when a seller visits the consumer’s home) is extended from the previous minimum 7 days, to a uniform 14 days across the EU. These 14 days start counting from the daythe consumer receives the goods, and the consumer has the right to can-cel the purchase for any reason. When a seller hasn’t clearly informed theconsumer about the right to cancel the purchases, the return period will be extended to a year.
In other words, you can buy a $150k instrument for a project, use it for a week, and then return it for a full refund. If Keysight doesn't inform you that you can do this, then you can keep using it for a year and then return it. If you receive a demo, maybe that's also a "sales visit" to your home?
Consumers will now also be allowed to pull out from purchases after solicited visits from sellers and from online auction purchases from professional sellers.
I.e., applies to eBay as well even if flagged "as is".
Traders must refund consumers within 14 days of cancellation, including standard delivery costs. Regarding goods, the trader can postpone the reim-bursement until the goods are returned by the consumer or the consumer provides evidence that these goods have been sent to the trader.
Free rentals, now with free shipping!
Traders wanting consumers to pay for the return of goods after cancellation must clearly inform them beforehand, and give at least an estimate of the cost for returning bulky goods.
I.e., operate under the assumption instruments actually will be returned when the renter is done using them.
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