Products > Test Equipment
Keysight officially lost the plot - don't buy if you're a hobbyist
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hpw:

--- Quote from: ogden on January 19, 2022, 06:04:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: rox77 on January 19, 2022, 05:25:01 pm ---in europe those specific conditions would be ignored in any consumer claim if the consumer purchased the device through legal channels.

--- End quote ---

Right. If you are in EU - buy from EU distributor and you are covered. One that I know is batronix.com (not affiliate, just satisfied customer).

--- End quote ---

I am not  :--  so to setup a LLC with paperwork & each year costs after 10 years more  :palm:
Nominal Animal:
I finally found a good reference for Finland: The entrepreneur and unemployment security, from TE-palvelut, the government organization that handles this stuff.  Main point:

--- Quote ---You are not entitled to unemployment benefits if you are fully employed as an entrepreneur or through self-employment.
--- End quote ---
When one is employed elsewhere and has a side business, everything works fine.  But, if you resign, you will automatically be classified as a self-employed or an entrepreneur, and will not get any unemployment benefits at all.  If you get laid off, the situation gets murkier, and you usually have to go through quite a paperwork battle to show that your side business has never been profitable enough to classify as self-employment.  Unfortunately, if you did manage to make a nice extra from your side business, you will be classified as an entrepreneur, and get no unemployment benefits.

I used to run a limited liability company from '97/98 up till 2005 or so, and handled all the paperwork myself.  (I even got training for myself to do that; as well as for copyright law and licensing issues.  It was quite profitable, but broke me, because I am not a business type person: I just want to fix all problems I get my grubby little hands on, and am very easily exploited; rather naïve, really.  Burnout, depression ensued.)  My family is also full of entrepreneurs; we're the work-work-work kind of people, for good or bad.

The Finnish tax office is actually extremely helpful (for companies and entrepreneurs); one only needs to contact them as early as possible, and they'll work hard to help you.  If you suspect you may be handling some tax issues wrong, I can warmly recommend you contact them.  In my experience, they were more than happy to help with any issues regarding taxation; they even offer help in tax planning.

The TE-palvelut, on the other hand, well, they're run by a completely different set of metrics, and it is in their interest to categorize as many people as possible as entrepreneurs, and that leads to the perceived curb-stomping of unemployed entrepreneurs in Finland.  It's not the people, it's the metrics used to control that office.  This is the root cause of the problem, and due to cultural issues (Finland having a politically weak small-to-medium enterprise sector, compared to say Germany), is difficult to fix, even when lots of people acknowledge the problem exists.  Some of the parties could even be classified as anti-entrepreneurs, more for semantic and ideological reasons than practical or taxation reasons.

There are ways to avoid that, even in Finland, by setting up a group of interconnected companies.  However, even thinking about that literally gives me hives (urticaria), so if anyone is interested in that, I recommend they contact a business angel (experienced entrepreneur/CEO) through one of the business incubators, since they too will be familiar with such arrangements, and are often happy to help new entrepreneurs.
tautech:

--- Quote from: hpw on January 20, 2022, 08:06:04 am ---
--- Quote from: ogden on January 19, 2022, 06:04:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: rox77 on January 19, 2022, 05:25:01 pm ---in europe those specific conditions would be ignored in any consumer claim if the consumer purchased the device through legal channels.

--- End quote ---

Right. If you are in EU - buy from EU distributor and you are covered. One that I know is batronix.com (not affiliate, just satisfied customer).

--- End quote ---

I am not  :--  so to setup a LLC with paperwork & each year costs after 10 years more  :palm:

--- End quote ---
Which by itself is enough to buy a damn fine scope !
Or enough to set up a fine hobbyist lab.
hpw:

--- Quote from: tautech on January 20, 2022, 08:27:00 am ---
--- Quote from: hpw on January 20, 2022, 08:06:04 am ---
--- Quote from: ogden on January 19, 2022, 06:04:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: rox77 on January 19, 2022, 05:25:01 pm ---in europe those specific conditions would be ignored in any consumer claim if the consumer purchased the device through legal channels.

--- End quote ---

Right. If you are in EU - buy from EU distributor and you are covered. One that I know is batronix.com (not affiliate, just satisfied customer).

--- End quote ---

I am not  :--  so to setup a LLC with paperwork & each year costs after 10 years more  :palm:

--- End quote ---
Which by itself is enough to buy a damn fine scope !
Or enough to set up a fine hobbyist lab.

--- End quote ---

May call it a hobby dealing as retired engineer with companies as named and dealers, witch do not provide the required support & provide fixes... so  :palm:

Selling is one thing and the companies behind (most Asian) even have no incident tracking, so they finally are fishing with issues on the dark moon ..

 
madires:

--- Quote from: kaz911 on January 20, 2022, 07:47:35 am ---And regarding employment while having a company - well - you might have been lucky. If a company goes through a redundancy round - they will use any excuse in the book to get rid of you - especially in place where it is hard to get rid of people. So having a company thereby potentially "voiding" your employment contract can be an issue.

--- End quote ---

It's similar over here. If someone is employed and wants to start a side business he should ask his employer for an approval. Otherwise it could become a reason to fire you. In case of a hobby business most employers won't disagree, but you have to ask first.

However, there are more things to consider when running a hobby business in Germany. I know of a few cases in which people were forced by the revenue office to close their hobby business after a few years because of the lack of profit. The revenue office in another district might be fine with that.
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