Products > Test Equipment

Keysight officially lost the plot - don't buy if you're a hobbyist

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nctnico:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 08, 2022, 04:17:03 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 02:00:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 07, 2022, 07:35:26 pm ---When someone is convinced that brand A is better than brand B, no logical argument will change their mind, because brands do not rely on logic, they rely on human emotional responses.  Only a personal event, changing their emotional responses, will affect their conviction.

--- End quote ---
I guess this is partly aimed at me. Let me tell you: I have spend (directly and indirectly) about 4k euro to make Siglent equipment work in a business environment and failed. That is a hard learned lesson.
--- End quote ---
And that is why you feel so emotionally about this.


--- Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 02:00:49 am ---fanboyism
--- End quote ---
No, I was not talking about that; "fanboyism" is a completely separate phenomenon (and one based more on dopamine kicks than emotional responses).

I mean that you feel strongly about brands, because you have hard earned lessons about them; but you do not logically see how small your own experimental sample is, nor do you acknowledge any selection biases inherent in that sample.

You are not behaving logically here.  Your admission that your opinion is based on your experiences, combined with your conviction, is proof of that.  Experience ≝ anecdotal evidence ≠ logic.

--- End quote ---
And yet you are still wrong because you are trying to make an analysis based on incomplete data. If you actually knew which equipment I have and have owned precisely (which you can find on this forum) and how I select it (which you can also find on this forum) you'll see that my equipment selection is based on buying things that make  sense financially. Maybe read some of my older posts and you'll see exactly how my way of thinking about buying test equipment has been shaped over the years. It is all here on this forum. IOW: do your homework first before jumping to any conclusions. If I was acting emotionally, I would not have re-tried to use Siglent gear again but based on the information on this forum, it looked strongly like a particular piece of gear would fit the bill so I recommended buying it to a customer. That turned out to be a mistake due to a deeply hidden flaw though.

To add another datapoint: I have a close family member that utterly hates Ford cars. So from the day I could understand spoken word, I was told Ford is crap. Fast forward to little less than 10 years ago: I needed another car so I sat down behind the computer with a piece of paper and a used car website to see what kind of models would fit the requirements and budget. I found a couple of car models including one from Ford. I researched all of them (looking at common problems reported by people that have driven their car for a long time) and it turned out the Ford model was the best buy so I got the Ford. Now tell me that this process isn't based on logic.

I follow the same exact same principle when selecting test equipment. From going through that selection process (which can be lengthy every now and then) for various bits of gear I've learned that buying an A-brand gives the best chance of getting a piece of equipment that just works (just like there are car brands that typically produce cars with less than average problems). The alternative is to buy a cheaper instrument which needs to be functionally verified thouroughly (which can take more time & effort than is financially sensible) and/or needs modifications (which again involves a time / money tradeoff).

Anyway, this is going wildly off-topic in this thread.

adam4521:

--- Quote --- (laughs).  Can’t speak for the other guys, but R&S definitely does not resell (or even give away) competitor trade-ins :)
--- End quote ---

If it’s electrically safe to use, would it be ethical these days to throw working equipment in the dump, just to remove it from the used equipment ‘pool’? Does R&S not subscribe to the circular economy?

nctnico:
Most likely the equipment is handed over to an equipment dealer to figure out what is worth reselling and what can be scrapped.

pdenisowski:

--- Quote from: adam4521 on November 08, 2022, 05:21:18 pm ---
--- Quote --- (laughs).  Can’t speak for the other guys, but R&S definitely does not resell (or even give away) competitor trade-ins :)
--- End quote ---

If it’s electrically safe to use, would it be ethical these days to throw working equipment in the dump, just to remove it from the used equipment ‘pool’? Does R&S not subscribe to the circular economy?

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 05:24:14 pm ---Most likely the equipment is handed over to an equipment dealer to figure out what is worth reselling and what can be scrapped.

--- End quote ---

It's standard industry practice not to resell competitor trade-ins:  if you know of any T&M manufacturers who do resell competitor trade-ins, I would be very interested :)

That said, we are, of course, very happy to sell our own used (but fully refurbished, calibrated, etc.) instruments.

And being an environmentally-conscious company, rest assured that we don't simply throw trade-ins into the dumpster (!) :)

alm:

--- Quote from: pdenisowski on November 08, 2022, 06:18:46 pm ---It's standard industry practice not to resell competitor trade-ins:  if you know of any T&M manufacturers who do resell competitor trade-ins, I would be very interested :)

--- End quote ---

I can't be 100% sure they sell trade-ins, but this eBay store that claims to be associated with Teledyne-Lecroy sells and has recently sold equipment from at least Rigol, Tektronix and R&S. I can't really think of another reason why they would sell competitor equipment.

Keysight has a "multi-vendor outlet" on eBay which has in its description:

--- Quote ---The Keysight Multi-Vendor Outlet provides access to used equipment from multiple manufacturers that our customers traded in against Keysight solutions.

[...]

Why does Keysight offer equipment from other manufacturers?
We manage the industry's broadest trade-in program and therefore receive thousands of instruments that are traded towards Keysight solutions. All incoming used equipment undergoes performance checks and, if in good condition, is remarketed on multiple channels such as this Multi-Vendor Outlet on eBay. A dedicated remarketing team enables us to provide you with quality offers of used equipment from Keysight (formerly Agilent) and other manufacturers.

--- End quote ---

If this is anything to go by, it almost seems industry standard to resell competitor trade-ins ;)

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