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| Keysight officially lost the plot - don't buy if you're a hobbyist |
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| m k:
--- Quote from: xrunner on December 12, 2021, 12:19:27 pm ---They don't claim you cannot buy something, but that it will void term and warranties if you are a consumer / household user. --- End quote --- This is not going to hold in EU. It's a single sided and even if it's signed by a buyer it still can't void the law. Only possiblity from their side is to make it unavailable to general public. They can make things very difficult but they can't deny their responsibilities. USA has class actions, no idea how it is in the EU, here locally it's not real, on paper yes but not real. |
| xrunner:
--- Quote from: m k on December 12, 2021, 06:03:20 pm --- --- Quote from: xrunner on December 12, 2021, 12:19:27 pm ---They don't claim you cannot buy something, but that it will void term and warranties if you are a consumer / household user. --- End quote --- This is not going to hold in EU. It's a single sided and even if it's signed by a buyer it still can't void the law. Only possiblity from their side is to make it unavailable to general public. They can make things very difficult but they can't deny their responsibilities. USA has class actions, no idea how it is in the EU, here locally it's not real, on paper yes but not real. --- End quote --- It'll be interesting to watch how this plays out in the coming years. There's gonna be some mighty pissed-off customers out there and some of them won't be afraid to use legal action. I mean I could just waltz on over to the Keysight store right now, put anything in the cart, and buy it if I wanted to charge it and I wouldn't have any idea about that policy in that document. The need to be WAY more up-front about it than they are at the moment. :-- --- Quote from: RBBVNL9 on December 12, 2021, 12:43:14 pm --- --- Quote ---4 (j) Products are intended for professional and industrial use only, and are not suitable for consumer or household use, and Customer represents and warrants that it is not acquiring Products for such uses. --- End quote --- So, if in its own marketing material Keysight promotes their instruments to be used by "Engineers working on workbenches set up in garages, basements, home offices, sheds [...]." they must legalistically mean that such places are not part of a household or for consumers ?!? --- End quote --- I thought about writing them back about that, but I worked in a large company before retiring. I know how it goes. There would be no point in wasting my time, because they have no power over it, and wouldn't agree with me in writing even if they did see the irony of that bench challenge and their equipment. No, it's their policy now and there is nothing we can do about it. The head honcho was convinced that it was a keen way to go forward. So it is written, so shall it be done. I just feel sorry for any hobbyist that buys their new equipment and finds out after spending thousands of dollars that the thing won't be supported after the purchase. Meh, it won't affect me because I get the older good stuff that doesn't have warranties anyway. ;) |
| RBBVNL9:
To me, Keysights’ strategy looks rather short-sighted. Ok, they may save some money by refusing warranty and providing support. May lose some of that savings again, as their strategy is likely illegal in quite some world regions. But the bigger picture is that with this attitude, they alienate themselves from engineers. The people that use their instruments on a daily basis. That specify it, so their company procures it. Who are real engineers, not only at their work but also in their free time. Who are creative, challenged, solution-seeking. For all those for who professionalism and enthusiasm do not stop when they close the office door behind them. Moreover, Keysights alienate themselves from the new generation of young engineers growing up right now. The damage that this current attitude brings may be way beyond any possible savings of refusing warranty or support requests. |
| kcbrown:
--- Quote from: nctnico on December 11, 2021, 08:11:28 pm ---I hope you see you already answered your own question here. 8) BTW, car dealerships get paid by the manufacturers to deal with manufacturer warranty & recalls even for cars that are not bought from that particular dealership. --- End quote --- I didn't realize it before, but Keysight explicitly disclaims all warranties on equipment sold to individuals. See above. I just went over their terms of sale (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/9018-60029/exhibits/9018-60029.pdf) and the implications of the wording of paragraph 7(j) is clear: resellers must ensure that they sell only to entities that will use the equipment for professional or industrial use, because if they don't do so then they can't warrant that the intended use is for that only, and such use nullifies the warranty terms. This means resellers can and almost certainly will refuse warranty service to individuals! And the reason is clear: they can't get reimbursement for a warranty claim if it's from an individual. That means that resellers are not contractually obligated to honor any warranty claims by individuals. You were saying something some time back about A-brand support being superior ... ? It's interesting how things change, isn't it? :) Even if A-brand quality is better, that doesn't help you if your newly purchased gear breaks and has no warranty. |
| alanapar:
Thanks, Keysight. Although I do have a somewhat defunct business (I'm retired), that attitude helped make up my mind, just as I was beginning to study your offerings. I just ordered a Siglent SDS2104X Plus. Thru year end, Siglent have a promo which adds the AWG and MSO licenses plus MSO hardware for $219. I figure that even if I could add the licenses on the QT (which I would be rather nervous about attempting), that's still a useful discount on the logic probe hardware. |
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