Keysight software rant

[Mr. Scram]

I agree but it would make sense for Keysight, Tektronix, etc to use their resources to improve an open source project by adding support for their equipment rather than coming up with yet another failed attempt at instrumentation software.

If you watch the John Kenny interview, you'll see that Keysight dreads open-source development. I guess the Rigol affair didn't help either.

[Dr.Trinity]

In our labs we tried the Keysight BenchVue software really hard but came to the conclusion, that it sucks.
It was a horrible experience with the License Manager running in the background and causing even more problems.

A friend in the lab came across this post:
Keysight BenchVue is a Great Example of an Unfavorable Approach to Hardware-Supporting Software
http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/
So, we knew that we are not alone in this experience.

Why would a billion $ company that firstly makes really good hardware, not offer a simple and good working software
that goes along with their equipment, is hard to understand. BenchVue was on a good way to revolutionize the industry.
But now, I don't think people will buy it anymore.

Does it really have to be a profit center in each department?

Well, we stepped away from BenchVue and I don't think it will be installed in our labs again.

[JohnG]

Python + PyVisa + KS Visa solved a lot of my problems. I will never look back...

Now, if only I could do without KS Visa or NI Visa 

John

[xani]

I know this is probably bait, but sigrok is primarily a logic analyzer tool. It can certainly capture mixed signals from a scope or DMM too (and in the next version, can use analog channels as digital ones). It has quite a few users in this space, especially with the pulseview gui (along with its primary competition, the saleae software). I guess if you measure "professionalism" as "number of Windows CE splashes shown during boot", then it doesn't measure too high.

It isn't bait, it's simply on observation in terms of hardware support, even for logic analysers: https://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#Logic_analyzers I simply see no decent high speed platform with a good memory supported at this time, so it's quite useless once you start dealing with larger FPGAs or DRAM. And let that be the main use for logic analysers, for debugging MCU applications you rarely need a LA if you're a bit handy with JTAG debugging.

On the multimeters they're missing the prevalent Keithley and Solartron meters. For LCR meters they don't support the classic HP ones, which are pretty much the gold standard, or that newer USB based one from that little Dutch company. They're also missing the common counter and signal generator variants. (e.g. you can pave the street with the old R&S SMx signal generator variants, they're incredibly common.)
[/qoute]

That's the problem with non-corporate-supported open source, even if someone *wanted* to write the driver for free, they need to own the hardware in the first place.
And the company doesn't want to invest money in OS because having their own is "competitive advantage", even when it isn't because every other company reinvents the wheel too.

So yeah, I just find it quite disappointing, I mean it's nice for hobbyist use, but this is not even close to competing with the Keysight and Tek software in my humble opinion. And I'm not up for the "then add it yourself" argument, I'd much rather invest my time in just scripting what I exactly need using the NI APIs.

Chicken and egg problem, you need software to get to the critical point where most people's needs are fulfilled so it makes more sense to hack on that project rather than set up something on your own. But until software gets to that point, everyone reinvents the wheel and wastes a ton of time.

[HalFET]

For keysight it's simple economics really. It costs less to make it than they earn on it, plus their direct competitor is way worse at it.

Additionally this isn't chicken and the egg problem. NI GPIB/VISA/LXI is universally supported. So you pretty much have to install it. It has reasonably easy APIs, is well documented, and you could find LabVIEW drivers for a turkey sandwich if it comes with a LAN or GPIB port.

While if we use Sigrok we'd have to install a massive toolchain, and the accompanying slew of dependencies, as well most likely. Then we'd have to learn the Sigrok coding standards and how to extend it. It just isn't worth it, especially if I can get along with Matlab or LabVIEW.

And loads of us have the hardware at home, or have access to it at work after hours. It's a matter of asking really, happy to try things out -- as long as I don't have to mess with 20 installers.

[nctnico]

IMHO the NI package is way overbloated, some vendor software depends on a specific version and the latest versions won't even install on older Windows versions (like Windows 7).

[HighVoltage]

I am not sure all this fuss about bad Keysight software is really appropriate.

For one, Keysight started to offer easy to use software to get some data out of instruments and it is far ahead of its competition. I remember well, how frustrating it was 10 or 15 years ago, to get any data acquisition going, even on a 34401A and I was really happy when the first (FREE) logging software was released by Keysight, long before BenchVue.

I have been using BenchVue at some customer sites for simple tasks and it worked really well for this purpose. Installed on a stand alone PC that is not used for anything else, the license manager does not matter. So, for simple business applications it is OK. And usually a business does not care about the cost of a few hundred dollars.

But, I also understand that Keysight closed the door to the hobby electronics world. The older and license free BenchVue software is still available for download and works OK. I am using a dedicated laptop just for BenchVue and it works without major problems.

I wish Keysight would have kept a free and simple license for entry level connections and data collection and control of the instruments. Who knows, may be one day Keysight we will realize this and we will see a U-Turn in their policies.

Or, may be one day an independent company will write cool software for all kind of instruments. But may be that market is too small.

 

[bd139]

Or, may be one day an independent company will write cool software for all kind of instruments. But may be that market is too small.

Working on it

[HalFET]

IMHO the NI package is way overbloated, some vendor software depends on a specific version and the latest versions won't even install on older Windows versions (like Windows 7).

Sure it's bloated, but all VISA packages are bloated. I remember Tek's one was already in the multi-gigabyte territory in the mid 2000s.

[nctnico]

I have been using BenchVue at some customer sites for simple tasks and it worked really well for this purpose. Installed on a stand alone PC that is not used for anything else, the license manager does not matter. So, for simple business applications it is OK. And usually a business does not care about the cost of a few hundred dollars.

My problem is not so much the purchase costs but the maintenance costs caused by the dependence on a license manager and third party libraries. It is very easy to waste many hours to solve issues with drivers and incompatible versions because the symptoms and error messages are clear as mud. In many cases the application just crashes or doesn't work without any indication on why it is not working. Ofcourse things can be mitigated somewhat by using seperate PCs but these also don't come for free and need extra maintenance. Creating software which just works and doesn't need an expert to install and/or diagnose it is an art very few master.

[D3f1ant]

As much as I detest the new licence only model for benchvue, the older free versions still work.

I don't have it installed any more so can't confirm but from memory one of nice features of benchvue is you can drag and drop traces from the oscilloscope to the signal generator. Haven't done it for a while, but don't remember it requiring any great effort to get it to work.