Products > Test Equipment
Korad KA3005P+ (from welectron)
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ebastler:
VST was simply a typo, I assume. A and S are right next to each other on the keyboard.
twist3r:

--- Quote from: ebastler on March 30, 2022, 12:30:44 pm ---VST was simply a typo, I assume. A and S are right next to each other on the keyboard.

--- End quote ---
Yes, you might probably be right about it. But when a newbie like me (who don't understand a lot of things) reads it, and try to understand it, such a small mistake creates lots of strugle while I'm doing my best to 100% understand what-is-what. :)
I hope tooki would not get angry at me for asking so many questions that (at first sight) appers that are already answered.
tooki:

--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---Seams like... VAT in Switzerland has the same meaning like in the rest of the Europe, with just that 'small' difference that it is not 20% but only 7.7%. Correct?
Ok, but then...I'm confused why did you said:


--- Quote ---If at all possible, buy it from a vendor which ships to Switzerland with customs pre-cleared and VST prepaid, or is already in Switzerland.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
Oh, I see. Sorry, it was just a simple typo of VAT.



--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---Ok, I'll ask website to calculate Swiss VAT before I order it, so I can pay that as well with my order. But what is that VST then? Do I have to ask German site to calculate Swiss VST as well? Or I will be paying VST when it arrives in Swiss? (maybe in that case I would have to pay extra 30 FR that you talked about?)
So should I (if that is possible ) ask the site to strip German VAT and add Swiss VAT + Swiss VST, so that my family members from Switzerland will not have to pay anything extra when it arrives at their doorstep in Switzerland? This VST thing is confusing me.
If you think that I can more easily understand, take this as an example:
Let say that an item on german website cost 119 euros (because they calculated 19% German VAT). So without German VAT, value of that item is 100 euro. Please can you tell me what are the all other taxtes that the site would apply at the value of 100 euros, that include everything that needs to be paid to Switzerland before it arrives it in Switzerland?

--- End quote ---
It's not really something you "ask" for. If they offer it, it'll be because they expressly sell to Switzerland, e.g. by offering the country setting, and at checkout, you see 7.7% VAT. You'll also typically have the option to pay in CHF.

There's no sure-fire way to easily tell, which is why I'm telling you ones that I know for a fact do it. Some shops expressly say it in plain speech (e.g. "prices include Swiss VAT"), others "say" it with business-y terms ("DDP incoterms" is what you want), others don't really say it anywhere and you have to deduce it from their collecting 7.7% VAT.



--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---As for the other things that you said:


--- Quote ---Smaller foreign vendors that don’t collect Swiss VAT can leave off their e.g. German VAT when selling to Switzerland (and usually will), but they don’t always.
--- End quote ---
What does that actually mean. Does that mean they will chage me more for German VAT and leave me to be charged again for Swiss VAT when the package arrive in Switzerland? Why woudn't they remove German VAT when it is obvious that they are going to ship the item outside Germany?

--- End quote ---
Because they have to have a solid paper trail for the German government to justify why they're not paying the German government its VAT. Companies that routinely export things have processes set up to do this, so they can prove the goods were sent abroad, so the government is satisfied it's not being defrauded. A company that rarely sells abroad may decide it's not worth it, since it's easier to just collect VAT on everything. Same as if you go to a brick-and-mortar shop in Germany: they have to collect German VAT at the time of sale, period. Many shops -- but not all -- in touristy areas expressly offer "duty free shopping", meaning they've gone to the effort to set up whatever process is needed so that they can issue you a special receipt to use at the border to request a VAT refund when leaving the country. Shops that don't cater to tourists simply won't make the effort, since it costs money to set up and mistakes could cost them dearly.



--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---So big vendors (Digi-Key, mouser, Farnell, RS, Conrad, Reichelt, Amazon) already calculate Swiss VAT when I'm about to pay for the product that I put in the 'cart' on their website? But what about the smaller vendors like welectron (or individuals)... Can I asked them (politely) to calculate Swiss VAT, or they just don't have such possibility? (I'm asking so that I can know if they CAN do that but they don't want to, or they just CAN'T)?
--- End quote ---
They usually can't. The setup costs to be able to do this are significant, which is why only large companies are required to do it. Before the requirement, only a tiny number of companies (like Amazon) did it.

I have heard of vendors who balk at removing German VAT from small orders, because it's a lot of work for them, so they're happy to do it on a 10K euro order, but not on a 60 euro one. But these are generally not consumer products.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---For instance Welectron is seling that KORAD bench power supply for 100 euros (without German VAT). Shipping with DHL is 9.9 euros (for anything up to 12Kg in weight). So ...if welectron can't calculate Swiss VAT at their site, does that mean I would have to pay for the item when it arrives in Switzerland:

100+9.9 (shipping) = 109.9 (lets round it to 110 euros. So Swiss will apply 7.7% at the value of 110 euros + 30 euros for their  service? OR... they will first add 30 euros (or franc) to 110 euros (so its like 110+30), and then apply 7.7% to a value of 140 euros? Will that be the end of robbery or there is more? I need to know what is the worst case scenario. :)
--- End quote ---

Worst-case? Who knows, that's the "surprise" part of the surprise charges. It exceeds the scope of a reasonable request to ask for a comprehensive tutorial on international tax law, if that were even knowable. But what I would expect is 7.7% of 110 euros, plus a service charge which can be anywhere from 0-30 francs, typically. But no guarantees.

I suppose there exist some products that have special tariffs applied to them, in which case those would also be collected. Not relevant to a simple lab PSU or consumer goods.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---
--- Quote ---Reichelt is in Germany, but if the website is set to Switzerland, their prices are the bottom line price including Swiss VAT. No customs surprises.
--- End quote ---

This is what always confusing me when browsing foreigh websites. Because... I never know if by switching to different country on their website, means that site 'language' is just about to change to the selected country language, or that the VAT (and prices) will be for that country specifically?

--- End quote ---
Depends on the site. It's usually a strong clue if you see "language", "country", and "currency" options next to each other at the same time, as with Reichelt, Distrelec, Digi-Key, etc.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---
--- Quote ---Electronics suppliers who warehouse in Switzerland include: Distrelec and Conrad for electronics components; Brütsch-Rüegger for tools and fasteners; Brack, Microspot, and Digitec/Galaxus for consumer electronics and household stuff.
--- End quote ---

^ I never heard about Brütsch-Rüegger and Brack company. For Microspot I heard recently when I was browsing Swiss Ricardo where one seller was selling used PC parts and said he bought them in Microspot. So I'm guessing Microspot is not Swiss company but some foreign (German?) company?
--- End quote ---
Nope, Swiss. Owned by Coop (who also owns InterDiscount, Fust, and a gazillion other retail stores). It's Coop's discount mail-order-only electronics/household shop.

Because of the problem of surprise import charges, the Swiss people largely avoided ordering from abroad, allowing a surprisingly large number of domestic online shops to get established. The aforementioned 100K revenue threshold changed this a bit, since it expanded the number of surprise-free foreign vendors, but as I said, this was just in the past couple of years.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---As for Digitec, that is where I ordered my Galaxy S II phone back in 2011 (strange thing was that default phone laguage was set to Hungary). I was even in their store in Dietikon. At the time, I was surprised its just for 'picking up already ordered things'. As a tourist I thought it is an actual shop like InterDiscount :)

btw. What is Galaxus? Is that a partner of Digitec or maybe some company that bought Digitec?
--- End quote ---
Galaxus is Digitec's brand for household goods. (Digitec is owned by Migros, by the way.)


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---
offtopic 1: Did you ever order anything from mindfactory.de ? And did it get cheapr than buying it in Swiss? (they mostly sell PC hardware as far as I know).
--- End quote ---
No, sorry, don't know them.

--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---offtopic 2: Who sells in Swiss cheapest PC parts? (I thought its Digitec, but now I'm not so sure)
---
--- End quote ---
I don't do much in this regard, honestly. But I've typically ordered storage devices from digitec, brack, or microspot.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---When you say ELV you mean https://ch.elv.com/ ? (I never heard of them so I tried to google)

--- End quote ---
Correct.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---
--- Quote ---Whether it’s labeled Korad, RND, Tenma, Vellemann, or whatever other rebadge brands, Korad is the manufacturer of this thing.
--- End quote ---
This is an itneresting thing that you just wrote. Because just yesterday, I was googling the KORAD model 'KA3005P' and got to digikey website:
https://www.digikey.ch/en/products/detail/sra-soldering-products/KA3005P/10709868

^ Do you see what they wrote under 'manufacturer' ? They are saying that manufacturer is 'SRA Soldering Products' and the 'series' is 'KORAD'.

Then I googled 'SRA Soldering Products' and ended up here:
https://www.sra-solder.com/our-brands/

^ at the bottom of their page there is 'Our Brands' link, and that is where you get when you click on it. There KORAD is listed as their brand (along with AOYUE which I already heard about before). So question is... who is the actual manufacturer of KORAD? Is KORAD a company or just a series of specific tool of different company (SRA Soldering Products)?

--- End quote ---
SRA distributes products made by others. Korad is the manufacturer. SRA even provides the Korad datasheet.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---And one more interesting thing: even though I'm at digikey .ch domain, under: Voltage - Supply it is written 110 ~ 220VAC. So I would guess that is an even older model of KORAD where there was a 'switch' (If I got all that right) where you can sellect what is the main voltage that you gonna use that power supply on.
KORAD has lots of improvemants. Even removed that M5 function for 'lock' button which doesn't turn off quickly if I understood it right. I'm not sure if RND, Tenma (sold at farnell) have such improvements included. And I'm pretty sure, asking any website to confirm such would be waste of time.

--- End quote ---
I honestly don't know.


--- Quote from: twist3r on March 30, 2022, 11:24:46 am ---Btw. when ordering from farnell, which of its many subdomain I should use (for ordering it to arrive in Switzerland)? I'm guessing https://ch.farnell.com/ ?

--- End quote ---
Correct.
twist3r:
Thank you very much for all the information that you shared!

I will re-read it few more times, but I think you did answer all my questions.

I even learned few more things about owners of certain shops in Swiss (nice!). So Coop has a monopoly there? And Digitec is owned by Migros? btw. I love 'Branches' chocolate 'bars' from Migros, though more brands are making them. But I like to buy the whole box with 30 (or even 50) bars in it when they are on sale.:P

offtopic: I visited MediaMarkt in Dietikon. Is it owned by Coop as well or is it a store from Germany?
tooki:
Migros and Coop in a way form a significant duopoly in the Swiss retail market, each having broadly similar numbers of employees and annual revenue. Each one owns banks, housewares stores, hardware stores, and various other businesses in addition to their core grocery stores.

Indeed, I think Migros’ own chocolate brand (Frey) is outstanding, and many Swiss feel the same way. It’s what I bring to people as gifts, being both cheaper and IMHO better than Lindt.

MediaMarkt is a German company.
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