Labjack Data Acquistion

[engrguy42]

Not sure how many are familiar with the Labjack data acquisition units. Basically a small data acquisition device that connects to your computer via USB or wifi or whatever, and you can write programs to grab analog/digital data. A bit like an industrial version of the Raspberry Pi GPIO pins. I think the Labjack I have goes up to 10V inputs or something, as opposed to GPIO at maybe 3v?. And they have some (really crappy) included software for simulating a scope, and capturing streaming data from the device, and so on.

Very nice idea, and I've written some C# apps to grab data and do like FFT and stuff on it. But they SUCK. The last software update for my unit (U12) was 3 years ago. And the other day I pulled out the unit to do some stuff, ran my C# software, and it detected the unit, then just froze. WTF??? It used to work fine, now nothing. In fact it used to be much faster and much nicer than their crappy included software. And same thing is happening with their included scope/streaming software. It just freezes.

And now it's gonna be a freakin' science project to go back and see what's going on (apparently no automatic software updates, even if there were new versions). Maybe a Windows thing, maybe their software is out of date, maybe they changed something without telling me. And the unit I have costs like $180, but apparently they consider it to be no longer supported software-wise, but they still sell it.

I'm guessing they're getting overtaken by the Raspberry Pi/Arduino crowd, even with the limitations of those units in terms of data acquisition.

Anybody have any idea about these things?   

[joeqsmith]

I have the higher voltage version and it's been a nice little device for quick experiments.   I use it with LabView and have not had any problems with mine.

With all the times I have seen software blame the hardware and firmware for their problems, there are many stories I could tell.

With your title suggesting they Sux and then posting they SUCK, I assume you know what the actual problem is.   

[engrguy42]

I have the higher voltage version and it's been a nice little device for quick experiments.   I use it with LabView and have not had any problems with mine.

With all the times I have seen software blame the hardware and firmware for their problems, there are many stories I could tell.

With your title suggesting they Sux and then posting they SUCK, I assume you know what the actual problem is.   

Well in this case, just a few minutes ago I found the problem. I had it plugged into a USB 3 hub. Apparently it doesn't like USB 3. So on a hunch I plugged it into a USB 2.0, and now it works. 

Nowhere do they say it doesn't like USB 3. Hence the suckage. 

[joeqsmith]

Really?  That's really odd.     

I have a Dell PC and the 3.x ports on that PC are not compatible with some 3.x devices so I bought a separate card for it which solved the problem.   I thought I had used the U12 with the Dell's 3.x as well as with the add-in card through an Anker branded  hub.   This is normally how I talk to USB devices on the bench.   

I also had problems with my Asus laptop's 3.0 ports but once I looked into it, they had a gen 1 chipset.   

I have a cheap tablet that I use for testing and have this same Anker branded hub attached to it.  However that tablet is USB 2.0.   I know the U12 works fine with this combination. 

I'll try a few combinations with it and let you know if I can replicate what you are seeing.

[joeqsmith]

Their website shows:

USB 2.0/1.1 Low Speed Interface (Data Rate Information)

Still, a decent 3.0 setup should be backwards compatible.   Did you try running the software that was provided with the unit?   Did you check to make sure the hub was not sagging.   There's a lot of cheap shit out there. 

[engrguy42]

Really?  That's really odd.     

I have a Dell PC and the 3.x ports on that PC are not compatible with some 3.x devices so I bought a separate card for it which solved the problem.   I thought I had used the U12 with the Dell's 3.x as well as with the add-in card through an Anker branded  hub.   This is normally how I talk to USB devices on the bench.   

I also had problems with my Asus laptop's 3.0 ports but once I looked into it, they had a gen 1 chipset.   

I have a cheap tablet that I use for testing and have this same Anker branded hub attached to it.  However that tablet is USB 2.0.   I know the U12 works fine with this combination. 

I'll try a few combinations with it and let you know if I can replicate what you are seeing.

Yeah, not only my homegrown C# software didn't work with the USB 3.0, but also their included software (LJScope, etc.). Now they both work with USB 2.0.

[engrguy42]

Their website shows:

USB 2.0/1.1 Low Speed Interface (Data Rate Information)

Still, a decent 3.0 setup should be backwards compatible.   Did you try running the software that was provided with the unit?   Did you check to make sure the hub was not sagging.   There's a lot of cheap shit out there.

BINGO!!! I think you hit it. The hub sucks. Tried it on the computer's USB 3.0 and it's fine.

[joeqsmith]

BINGO!!! I think you hit it. The hub sucks. Tried it on the computer's USB 3.0 and it's fine.

Looks like the title has changed and they no longer Sux but they still Suck.   

The Anker hub I use for my test equipment has a fairly large power supply with it.  The Signal Hound requires more power than can be supplied from a single port so they have a splitter cable.   With the data rates and power draw, that product needs some decent hardware to work.   As a matter of fact, I don't think they wanted it running through a hub and there is a note saying that some customers have been able to get it working but it's not recommended.  There are also a few other devices on this same hub at all times.   Mine works flawless which is amazing as the hub is actually running on an 3.0 extension cable.   Again, I didn't go for the 10 cent shit but it wasn't all that bad and had proven to be reliable. 

It's hard to believe that I have not ran the U12 with that setup but I will try it just to make sure as well as try in on the Dell and ASUS ports which again are known to have problems with 3.x devices.   

[engrguy42]

BINGO!!! I think you hit it. The hub sucks. Tried it on the computer's USB 3.0 and it's fine.

Looks like the title has changed and they no longer Sux but they still Suck.   

The Anker hub I use for my test equipment has a fairly large power supply with it.  The Signal Hound requires more power than can be supplied from a single port so they have a splitter cable.   With the data rates and power draw, that product needs some decent hardware to work.   As a matter of fact, I don't think they wanted it running through a hub and there is a note saying that some customers have been able to get it working but it's not recommended.  There are also a few other devices on this same hub at all times.   Mine works flawless which is amazing as the hub is actually running on an 3.0 extension cable.   Again, I didn't go for the 10 cent shit but it wasn't all that bad and had proven to be reliable. 

It's hard to believe that I have not ran the U12 with that setup but I will try it just to make sure as well as try in on the Dell and ASUS ports which again are known to have problems with 3.x devices.

For my U12 the Labjack instructions say:

"With the PC on and using the included cable, connect the LabJack U12 to the USB port on the PC or USB hub. "

And the Labjack was the only device connected in the hub, so I'm still not sure what the issue is...

In any case, next time I'll just plug direct the the computer. No big whoop...

Thanks.

[engrguy42]

Oh, and another reason they sux... 

Only like 8kHz sampling? Seriously? And only 4k sample memory? That's just not right. 

Oh, and the included U12 software is slower than molasses. And they default to a triggering time of like 30 freakin' seconds? You have to remember to go in and drop that down to like a second to get any response at all. And you can't even re-size the GUI windows. And trying to change XY axis settings is freakin' impossible.

[joeqsmith]

They may not state don't use 99 cent hubs or 1 cent cables but maybe they should. 

I tried it on a known USB 3 problem port on my Dell.  It worked fine.   I then tried it with the add-in 3.0 card.  That worked fine.   I then installed it into my Anker 3.x powered hub with the long 3.x extension cable.  That worked fine.     I then busted out an old D-Link DSB-H4 hub, and did not use the external power supply.  I plugged that into the Dell's problem port and plugged the labjack into the D-Link.  That worked fine. 

I tried hot swapping the unit to various ports while my LabView software was running.  It was able to ID the unit and reconnect automatically just fine.

My other hub is identical to the Anker I tried.     It seems more robust than a lot of USB garbage I see.    I did have some advertisement hub that would try and call home and give you some ads but It looks like I pitched it.   

I have low end model, U3-HV.  I think it was around $100.  Certainly wasn't expecting much at that price point but as I said, it gets used a fair amount and seems to work well.  In my case, I had read the specs before I bought it, so I had an idea what it could do.   Here's mine in operation. 

[engrguy42]

Thanks. Yeah, it's weird.

Maybe I just need to hit my USB hub with a stick. 

Or fall back to an engineer's last resort: "Maybe it's just one of those things". 

[engrguy42]

Okay, this is just weird...

Unplugged the Labjack from the computer USB and plugged it into the USB 3.0 hub and now it works.

Full moon maybe? 

EDIT: Well, on a bright note, all this monkeying gave me a chance to clean up my acquisition and FFT code. 

[engrguy42]

Joe,
I'm curious about the Hayabusa data logger you show in the video. It sounds like it's for tuning motorcycles? Is that something you generated or is it from the manufacturer?

I'm curious what people are using devices like the Labjack for. My old version is so limited in sample rate (8k/sec for one channel) and input values (10v), and the higher end units cost about the same as a good scope, so I'm wondering why someone would bother with a Labjack. Maybe it's all the inputs the Labjack has?

[joeqsmith]

There were two things shown in that video.  An HIL (Hardware in the Loop) simulator and a data logger.   The HIL uses the ECM from the bike and basically tricks it to thinking it's on a real motorcycle.  The reason for something like this is if you are changing the factory software, you may not want to always test it on an actual motorcycle the first time.  Or, you may want to try things that would be difficult to do with a real motorcycle.

The logger is there to record data from motorcycle, while it is being driven.   

That fact you would even suggest it was supplied by the manufacture says something about LabView.  This is all custom hardware (mostly an FPGA).  There are companies that specialize in HIL systems.  Have a look at D-SPACE for example.   

I normally don't need anything beyond a KHz.   In many cases 100Hz is good enough.   So for me, as I said it has it's place.  Here I was pretty lazy and used the software I wrote for the motorcycle data logging to run an extended high voltage test on a Fluke meter.   



Obviously, there is a trade off of noise, resolution and speed.  I choose my tools according to my needs at the time.   

[orenthalcaleb]

Hello,

Thanks for your feedback on the LabJack U12. The LabJack12 is the original LabJack and was first released in 2001. It isn't recommended for new customers but we have many customers who have adopted it and integrated it into their systems and continue to sell them to existing customers. We sold 10 to a phone customer today! We have many newer devices that are actually less expensive with more features, newer software and expanded/updated support. We apologize if our datasheets or website suggested the U12 as a recommended device. Our Product comparison table https://labjack.com/products/comparison-table doesn't even list the U12 by default and lists it under the Legacy tab. If you send me your updated address I can mail you a newer LabJack for evaluation and feedback. If you have any suggestions for how our website can better steer new customers away from legacy devices and towards newer devices with current cross platform support I would welcome your feedback.