Author Topic: LCR Meter Recommendation  (Read 3940 times)

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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2024, 11:00:42 pm »
That might be okay if it works and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's fully tested and has a 2021 calibration.  The company no longer existing and no known manual on-line gives me some concern.  But 0.02% basic accuracy is attractive.

Plus I know and trust the people I'm getting it from.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2024, 11:03:57 pm by BillyO »
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Offline Smokey

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2024, 11:21:41 pm »
Having DC bias capabilities for capacitors was something I was always missing from the handheld and cheap bench LCRs.  You don't realize how much capacitance drops off until you can measure with the actual DC bias.  That's a must have on my LCR feature list now.
 

Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2024, 11:23:47 pm »
Having DC bias capabilities for capacitors was something I was always missing from the handheld and cheap bench LCRs.  You don't realize how much capacitance drops off until you can measure with the actual DC bias.  That's a must have on my LCR feature list now.
The Protek Z9218 has that ability.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2024, 01:17:30 am »
Oh, BTW, I have found the TH2832 .. sort of

https://www.gsi-protek.com/9216a-1

The Protek 9216B seems to have the same spec, same software (from looking at the screen) and the same physical layout and look.  Just 3,355,000 Korean Won ($2600).  I wonder if they bought the rights off Tonghui or did they OEM it for them?

So Protek are still around.  They have just withdrawn from the Western market.



Then there is this too..

https://en.tonghui.com.cn/product/TH2830TH2832-419.html

Seems they have changed the name from Tonghui to TEKMIZE but it seems to be still available.  :-//
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 01:23:29 am by BillyO »
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2024, 01:34:45 am »
That might be okay if it works and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's fully tested and has a 2021 calibration.  The company no longer existing and no known manual on-line gives me some concern.  But 0.02% basic accuracy is attractive.

Plus I know and trust the people I'm getting it from.

Would they sell it for $200? 😉

Can you run some tests before you buy it?
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2024, 01:39:28 am »
Would they sell it for $200? 😉
No. :(  The $350 was negotiated down from $425.

Can you run some tests before you buy it?
Probably some minor stuff, but they do offer a return policy, so I can test all I like once I get it home.  They are good guys.  I've bought a ton of stuff off them over time.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2024, 01:40:55 am »
Would they sell it for $200? 😉
No. :(  The $350 was negotiated down from $425.

Can you run some tests before you buy it?
Probably some minor stuff, but they do offer a return policy, so I can test all I like once I get it home.  They are good guys.  I've bought a ton of stuff off them over time.

PM if you want to borrow my LCR Cal Test Board, or if you want your own.
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2024, 07:40:42 am »
Having DC bias capabilities for capacitors was something I was always missing from the handheld and cheap bench LCRs.  You don't realize how much capacitance drops off until you can measure with the actual DC bias.  That's a must have on my LCR feature list now.
The Protek Z9218 has that ability.

Cool.  Up to 60v too.  No gpib.  Pretty inexpensive on eBay right now.
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2024, 01:41:07 pm »
Having DC bias capabilities for capacitors was something I was always missing from the handheld and cheap bench LCRs.  You don't realize how much capacitance drops off until you can measure with the actual DC bias.  That's a must have on my LCR feature list now.

This is an important aspect of LCR DUT evaluation, some capacitors have significant capacitance change with DC bias voltage, ceramic X7R types are an example, also interesting to see how PN Junctions vary with DC Bias.

When we acquired our TH2830 a few years ago we wanted to investigate DC bias effects on various DUT, this lead us to develop the LCR Meter DC Bias adapter, details here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meter

This should work well for LCR Meters that allow a Short/Zero Ω that bypasses DC, it doesn't work with the DE-5000 for that reason.

The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrument :o

Best
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2024, 02:54:10 pm »
The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrument :o
I think it means display range rather than actual measurable value range.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2024, 03:11:28 pm »
The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrument :o
I think it means display range rather than actual measurable value range.

Maybe they meant that, but it's listed under measurements, not in the display column. Maybe those misleading practices helped kill the business in the US. 😉
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Online nctnico

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2024, 04:24:55 pm »
The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrument :o
Yeah, I'd file those specs under 'misprints'. Likely the number needs to be shifted 3 zeros to the left. 10ff (femto Farad) is plenty already.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2024, 05:53:21 pm »
The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrument :o
Yeah, I'd file those specs under 'misprints'. Likely the number needs to be shifted 3 zeros to the left. 10ff (femto Farad) is plenty already.

Hah.  Didnt see that.  That has to be below the capacitance of whatever test set you are using to hold the part.
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2024, 07:38:05 pm »
Yeah 10aF (0.01fF) is about the capacitance of two banana plug tips facing each other as:

      +     300mm     -                                  +      C       -
----->                    <------- which equals =  ------||------ 

About ~10aF at ~300mm spacing in free space with nothing else around :o

This supports just 63 electrons at 1 volt across the capacitance ???

Best,

 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 07:43:45 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline hussamaldean

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2024, 05:53:01 am »
Hi,
I have this one from uni-t:
https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut612/#Specifications
It is a great one.
Specially it has 100KHz which help me a lot in many projects.
 

Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2024, 02:05:47 am »
So, being the adventurous type I've pulled the trigger on the Protek.

I'll be picking it up in a week and will report back with interesting pictures and such.

I did contact Protek in Korea for a manual, but they insist this item was made by a different company.  Seems odd as my research uncovered a data trail that led me right to them.  But then again, history is not an exact "science".   :-//
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2024, 02:25:17 am »
I did contact Protek in Korea for a manual, but they insist this item was made by a different company.  Seems odd as my research uncovered a data trail that led me right to them.  But then again, history is not an exact "science".   :-//

I doubt Protek made a lot of what they show on their website. This one looks a little too familiar: https://www.gsi-protek.com/9216a-1 - and it's hilarious that the URL for 9216B is 9216a-1. 🤣
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2024, 02:58:47 am »
This one looks a little too familiar:
I noticed that as well.  Specs are identical too.
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2024, 05:59:32 pm »
An update.

So I picked up the Protec Z9218 and did some testing with a few reference capacitors.

I love the interface.  Really intuitive and I was able to find my way around it in a few minutes.  I really like the external bias feature and it some other features I really like too.  For instance you can enter the nominal value of a device and a % tolerance and do real quick go/no-go component selection.  I'm not sure if that's a common feature or not.  It is super fast and accurate below 2uF (1.999999nF or less), but when it switches to the uF range it's bonkers.  There is something really wrong in that range.  It's unable to determine ESR and shows capacitance values no where near actual - 100uF showing as 0.000787uF and 47uF showing as 0.000898uF - like I said, bonkers.  I don't know who tested this before declaring it "Fully tested and working as designed".  That's not for me to determine.

It's such a pity as it is just such a nice instrument in every other way.  Anyway, I've let the seller know and they will give me a full refund.

So, I pulled the trigger on a ET4410.  I wanted the ET4510, but I could not find a vendor that would ship to me here in Canada for some odd reason.  I was able to put them in my basket, but when I went to check out I'd get some form of "This item cannot be shipped to you location" message.  :-//

Anyway, the ET4410 should meet my needs.

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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2024, 06:06:35 pm »
the uF range it's bonkers.  There is something really wrong in that range.  It's unable to determine ESR and shows capacitance values no where near actual - 100uF showing as 0.000787uF and 47uF showing as 0.000898uF - like I said, bonkers.  I don't know who tested this before declaring it "Fully tested and working as designed".  That's not for me to determine.

What frequency were you testing the 100uF cap at? Did you do a full open/short calibration first?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 06:08:49 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2024, 06:08:02 pm »
Any chance you could try and repair the Protek?

Take some detailed pictures of the inside and PCBs, I'm sure a few of us (ourselves included) will try and help. Seems like a nice meter and maybe recoverable?

Best,
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 06:27:41 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2024, 06:26:36 pm »
What frequency were you testing the 100uF cap at? Did you do a full open/short calibration first?
Yes, open/short calibration was done at each frequency and function (par/ser)  and I tried 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 100kHz.  The imaginary values were different at each frequency.  The values in my last post were at 1kHz.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2024, 06:29:40 pm »
What frequency were you testing the 100uF cap at? Did you do a full open/short calibration first?
Yes, open/short calibration was done at each frequency and function (par/ser)  and I tried 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 100kHz.  The imaginary values were different at each frequency.  The values in my last post were at 1kHz.

I'd offer them $100 to keep it and try and fix it yourself.
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2024, 06:32:57 pm »
Any chance you could try and repair the Protek?
I was thinking about it.  It might simply be a bad relay or CMOS switch but the issue I have with that is 2-fold.

First, it might be such a simple thing and the resulting repair might effect the calibration.  With no documentation on it I might not be able to re-adjust it properly.

Second, and this is a little complicated, the pricing does not fit a "For parts or repair" unit.  I had this conversation.  The company I got it from usually gets their equipment from auctions where other companies have either folded or are upgrading their equipment.  If that were the case, they would have adjusted the price for me to $150.  However, this is from a lot that is on consignment and they are not in a position to adjust the price.  :(
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Offline BillyOTopic starter

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Re: LCR Meter Recommendation
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2024, 06:33:36 pm »
I'd offer them $100 to keep it and try and fix it yourself.
See my reply to mawyatt.
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