Author Topic: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope  (Read 1541 times)

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Offline Martin72

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Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« on: July 06, 2019, 09:28:25 pm »
Hi Everyone,

At last, we want new scopes - And we want it from Lecroy for serveral reasons.
Me personally would prefer siglents new 5000 series, but our Departement Manager want Lecroy.
Nevertheless, after almost bad experiences with the lecroy WS 3024, we´re looking for the HDO 4000 series….
Any comments on this, is it good, is it fast, Pros and Cons about it...
As we used the Waverunner series for almost 20 yrs, the Waverunner 8000 series is a competion to the 12bit HDO 4000 ?

Martin

Online nctnico

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 06:51:04 pm »
I'd be looking to see if the oscilloscope has enough processing power under the hood to do something meaningfull with the acquired data. The Siglent 5000 series is probably a good choice in the lower cost segment but it needs many more refinements to increase the productivity level when using it. I'm also wary whether the Siglent 5000 series has enough power under the hood to process all the data it can acquire. For business use spending more on the equipment likely pays back by being able to make measurements quicker. The cheapest solution to buy may not be the cheapest solution to use. The old saying goes: penny wise, pound foolish. Being 'burned' by the slow and handicapped WS3000 series should be taken as a serious lesson.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 07:00:35 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 07:08:54 pm »
Quote
Being 'burned' by the slow and handicapped WS3000 series should be taken as a serious lesson.

Yes indeed.
Awful slow and still buggy so the actual WS3000Z series isn´t interesting for us, the next "level" would be the Wavesurfer 510, but we don´t need 1ghz bw.
So the HDO4000A series could be the next for us.
Siglent SDS 5000 series would also fulfill our needs, costs 3 times less than a HDO4024A, but isn´t wanted here for some reasons.

Quote
I hate to break it to you, but Siglent and LeCroy are partners

I know about it, but this wasn´t my question.

Offline mk_

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 09:00:11 pm »
Any comments on this, is it good, is it fast, Pros and Cons about it...

the HDO6104 - don`t now if the 4000 too - has a really nasty bug: when the signal reach the "upper corner"  of the screen the signal disappears from the screen - even the parts below the upper corner are not visible.

LeCroy469 with the error for demostration,
LeCroy471 without this error

And they are not willing to fix this. (Cant be done and such blablabla)

This is usualy not a big problem but sometimes it _is_ a huge source of missinformation... specially if you ran into this bug without knowing about it
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2019, 09:30:43 pm »
Any comments on this, is it good, is it fast, Pros and Cons about it...

the HDO6104 - don`t now if the 4000 too - has a really nasty bug: when the signal reach the "upper corner"  of the screen the signal disappears from the screen - even the parts below the upper corner are not visible.

LeCroy469 with the error for demostration,
LeCroy471 without this error

And they are not willing to fix this. (Cant be done and such blablabla)

This is usualy not a big problem but sometimes it _is_ a huge source of missinformation... specially if you ran into this bug without knowing about it
Is this because the channel is outside the channel offset specification ?
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 09:56:00 am »
Can't you get a unit on loan for a couple of weeks/a month so you can throughoutly test it?
Even if lecroy won't do it (altough i don't see a reason why. It was never a problem for us and we are a very small business that was interested in ONE unit) i'm sure there are rental services that have them
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2019, 07:04:46 pm »
Hi,

You´re right, that should be possible and it´s a good idea too.

Offline mk_

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2019, 08:39:30 pm »
Is this because the channel is outside the channel offset specification ?

No. It is a known bug LeCroy is not willing to fix (I don`t remeber their arguments, to silly for a 20k€ instrument.

Usualy the signal below the upper end is still visible, even when the upper part is cutted of. As you can see in the jpgs also the valid signal on the screen disappears...
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2019, 08:53:50 pm »
Is this because the channel is outside the channel offset specification ?

No. It is a known bug LeCroy is not willing to fix (I don`t remeber their arguments, to silly for a 20k€ instrument.

Usualy the signal below the upper end is still visible, even when the upper part is cutted of. As you can see in the jpgs also the valid signal on the screen disappears...
Sure, I understand that however if the 0V position is outside the channel offset specification this sort of behaviour is to be expected.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2019, 08:56:47 pm »
Hi,

You´re right, that should be possible and it´s a good idea too.
You didn't know that? It is very common practise to get equipment on loan for evaluation. I'd be surprised if companies spend thousands of euros based only on a datasheet or brochure. Purchasing equipment needs to include a thourough examination based on clearly outlined requirements. Better get some other brands over there as well to make a good comparison.

Where is comes to the behaviour shown in the pictures I guess this is due to the sin x/x signal reconstruction. If an ADC value is clipped then the sin x/x reconstruction will likely cause signal distortions which aren't there in reality. I assume Lecroy decided it was better to show nothing instead of a fantasy signal.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 09:01:39 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2019, 09:32:51 pm »
Quote
You didn't know that? It is very common practise to get equipment on loan for evaluation.

Sure I know that, but in the first (and second) moment I didn´t have it in mind.
Will discuss the model choice with our R&D Manager, then start a request.
Until now we use waverunner models, but todays waverunner are very expensive.
More expensive as their 12 bit scope…..

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2019, 08:00:40 pm »
Hi,

And now we got a HDO4054A fully armed for 2 weeks on loan... ;)
Since yesterday, so I have already play with it a bit, serious tests will follow.
First impressions…
12.1" screen...really good.
Touchscreen with good response, quick response in general, intel i3 4-core cpu on board, also 8GB ram.
Waste amount of decoding features ( of course, it got all options), spectrum analyzer, power analyzer….
It blasts everything away we got, the WS3024 looks like a toy against, no competition in any way.
And what about my private Rigol MSO5 ?
It´s got more features, it´s got more Samples, it´s got more (much more) Memory, but.....
It´s unfair to compare with the HDO.

And lecroy claim it as their entry-level….

Nice thing, I hope we´ll order one or two.
Parallel to the loan, we got an offer for the 200Mhz model with serial decoding option included(I2C, SPI, UART) for appx 10500€.
Ah, one thing negative...
It´s lightweight, very light...if you press the on/off button, you should better take a hand on the scope.
 
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Online genghisnico13

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 12:43:59 am »
It´s lightweight, very light...if you press the on/off button, you should better take a hand on the scope.

I solved this problem in my RTB2004 by putting a couple of pieces of a anti-slip pad that is sold to put in your car (for keys, phone, etc), I don't know how it's sold where you are but you could probably find it, that is if your manager decides to approve the purchase.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 07:52:07 am »
...better to show nothing instead of a fantasy signal.

 :-+

Independent of just this topic... This should be turned into a great lab room wall poster.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2019, 08:09:45 pm »
Ah, it´s somekind of funny...
We got older Lecroy stuff here, most of my colleagues grown up with it..
Now the HDO is here and everyone is moaning… ;)
Ah, the screen is big, nice, but why are the labeling so little...damn touchscreen....why it´s booting so long....why using windows 7.....and so on.
Really cute  :D

Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2019, 09:12:45 pm »
So the test weeks would be gone next friday..
Conclusion personally: This is professional stuff, forget about rigol and siglent their models to compare with it, even some of them are in the same price range.

Comparing to our WS3024 isn´t fair at all, in fact the WS3024(siglent 3000 series) is a joke against in every case.

Huge benefit is the speed at all and the hdo4000 got the dual/quad/octal grid display, like the older waverunners.
This is sometimes a really advantage an I couldn´t understand why it isn´t avaible on rigol or siglent models.
We´re confident about the hdo 4000 and we are willing to order...another model.
Because meanwhile we got offers for an hdo 6000 and waverunner 9054, not so apart away from the price of an hdo 4024a with some options included.

Personally I own the rigol mso 5000 and it´s the best value for it´s money(appx 1000 bucks).
If I had 10000 to spend for, I would never, never ever go for a rigol or siglent model.
If I could "only" spend the half, I won´t go for them either, in this case I would buy a used lecroy waverunner.


Offline tautech

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2019, 07:22:13 am »

If I had 10000 to spend for, I would never, never ever go for a rigol or siglent model.

I hope you can eat those words once you've spent some time with a SDS5000X.
The beta firmware has gone ahead in leaps and bounds since Dave looked at one.

Unfortunately they're still shipped with 8.2R1 so unless your supplier can get their hands on later FW which BTW is now 8.7**.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Lecroy HDO 4000 12 Bit Scope
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2019, 07:12:08 pm »
Quote
Because meanwhile we got offers for an hdo 6000 and waverunner 9054, not so apart away from the price of an hdo 4024a with some options included.

Today they arrived…. :D

While the hdo6034 looks the same as the 4024a, I was shocked after unpackaging the waverunner - Boy, what a beast…. :o
And the benefit of having 12bits was obviously after feeding a signal (probe cal.) to both.
On the hdo6034 the signal was like "drawed" on the screen so clean, while on the 9054 it appears some noisy.
After playing a while with them, both scopes are great stuff.


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