Lecroy - HDO4034A Tektronix - MDO3104 Winner
Release Date Apr-17 Jun-15 Lecroy
Price $11K $14K Lecroy
Resolution 12bit - (15bit enhanced) 8bit - (11bit Hi Res) Lecroy
Mem Depth 50 Mpoints 10 Mpoints Lecroy
Bandwidth 350 MHz 1 GHz Tektronix
Rise Time .75 ns .4 ns Tektronix
Sample Rate 10 Gs/s 5 Gs/s Lecroy
Enhanced SR 125Gs/s Repetitive Not Available Lecroy
Screen Size 12.1" 9" Lecroy
Noise Floor 145 uVrms @ 1mV 179uVrms @ 1mV Lecroy
Channel Isolation 1000:1 @ DC-200MHz 100:1 @ DC-100MHz Lecroy
Stray Capacitance 15 pF 3.9 pF Tektronix
What are your actual needs?
Have you looked at R&S?
We are having a bit of a debate in the lab as to which scope to purchase, personally I want to go with the Lecroy while another scientist wants the Tektronix just because that's the only scope brand they've ever used.
Any opinions?
What are your actual needs?I second this. R&S also has several different acquisition modes (including peak detect) which the Lecroy doesn't have.
Have you looked at R&S?
We are having a bit of a debate in the lab as to which scope to purchase, personally I want to go with the Lecroy while another scientist wants the Tektronix just because that's the only scope brand they've ever used.What happens when you throw a $7.5k 1 GHz 4ch Siglent into the mix ?
Here's the specs that I've compared between the two scopes.
Code: [Select]Lecroy - HDO4034A Tektronix - MDO3104 Winner
Release Date Apr-17 Jun-15 Lecroy
Price $11K $14K Lecroy
Resolution 12bit - (15bit enhanced) 8bit - (11bit Hi Res) Lecroy
Mem Depth 50 Mpoints 10 Mpoints Lecroy
Bandwidth 350 MHz 1 GHz Tektronix
Rise Time .75 ns .4 ns Tektronix
Sample Rate 10 Gs/s 5 GHz Lecroy
Enhanced SR 125Gs/s Repetitive Not Available Lecroy
Screen Size 12.1" 9" Lecroy
Noise Floor 145 uVrms @ 1mV 179uVrms @ 1mV Lecroy
Channel Isolation 1000:1 @ DC-200MHz 100:1 @ DC-100MHz Lecroy
Stray Capacitance 15 pF 3.9 pF Tektronix
Any opinions?
Nobody gets fired for buying Tektronix...
Tektronix does have a new 4 series scope coming out in a couple of weeks which probably is a better alternative to the MDO3k/MDO4k series. These have 6 channel models as well. If there is time I would get one of these on loan to see how it compares.
If the existing MSO5 and MSO6 are an indicator then the new Tek 4 series scope will again perform poorly and be full of bugs :(That is a bit early to say. I'll admit the MSO5 and MSO6 didn't seem to work very well when released but it would be reasonable to expect most of the teething problems have been ironed out by now. However I don't have any information on the current state so the best advice is to get one on loan if you are looking at a scope in this price range. Maybe it is perfect for the job. Maybe not. Either way no harm is done and at least you went through all the possibilities.
We are having a bit of a debate in the lab as to which scope to purchase, personally I want to go with the Lecroy while another scientist wants the Tektronix just because that's the only scope brand they've ever used.
Here's the specs that I've compared between the two scopes.
Code: [Select]Lecroy - HDO4034A Tektronix - MDO3104 Winner
Release Date Apr-17 Jun-15 Lecroy
Price $11K $14K Lecroy
Resolution 12bit - (15bit enhanced) 8bit - (11bit Hi Res) Lecroy
Mem Depth 50 Mpoints 10 Mpoints Lecroy
Bandwidth 350 MHz 1 GHz Tektronix
Rise Time .75 ns .4 ns Tektronix
Sample Rate 10 Gs/s 5 GHz Lecroy
Enhanced SR 125Gs/s Repetitive Not Available Lecroy
Screen Size 12.1" 9" Lecroy
Noise Floor 145 uVrms @ 1mV 179uVrms @ 1mV Lecroy
Channel Isolation 1000:1 @ DC-200MHz 100:1 @ DC-100MHz Lecroy
Stray Capacitance 15 pF 3.9 pF Tektronix
Any opinions?
If the existing MSO5 and MSO6 are an indicator then the new Tek 4 series scope will again perform poorly and be full of bugs :(That is a bit early to say.
I'll admit the MSO5 and MSO6 didn't seem to work very well when released but it would be reasonable to expect most of the teething problems have been ironed out by now.
FWIW, I think the MDO4000 series from Tek probably is a much better match, the MDO4034C is pretty close for price and bandwidth, but offers the 6GHz SA in place of the better frontend and acquisition of the basic channels on the LeCroy, and it should be a bit more modern feeling and performing than the MDO3000 series, which I believe was their first iteration of the MDO series.
waveform update rate and dedicated spectrum analyser ?
What happens when you throw a $7.5k 1 GHz 4ch Siglent into the mix ?
5 GSa/s.What happens when you throw a $7.5k 1 GHz 4ch Siglent into the mix ?
What's the highest sampling rate you can give me?
waveform update rate and dedicated spectrum analyser ?
I don't know the exact data but the trigger rate on the MDO was very low, like a few thousand updates per second. There's fastaq but that works with data reduction and excludes most of the scope's functionality when active :(
Also:
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog/the-truth-about-oscilloscope-waveform-update-rates-and-why-not-to-fall-for-it.1514/ (https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog/the-truth-about-oscilloscope-waveform-update-rates-and-why-not-to-fall-for-it.1514/)
It appears the trigger rate of the MDO300o is 2200 per second in normal mode.
The "spectrum analyzer" is very poor, not just in its performance. It's just FFT and like everything else on the MDO3000 is so slow that it hurts :(
Yes the Teks normally default to slow update rates as usual
but the Tek has Fast Acquisition mode or DPO mode as well as a Fast Frame capture mode using segmented memory. Don't think the Lecroys have ever offered fast acquisition rates.
The Intensity graded display of the Tek is useful to display AM waveforms etc or anything that you would use a normal CRO to display.
I believe the spectrum analyzer on the MDO is more like a normal spectrum analyzer rather than FFT so there are some benefits of doing this in hardware.
waveform update rate and dedicated spectrum analyser ?
I don't know the exact data but the trigger rate on the MDO was very low, like a few thousand updates per second. There's fastaq but that works with data reduction and excludes most of the scope's functionality when active :(
Also:
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog/the-truth-about-oscilloscope-waveform-update-rates-and-why-not-to-fall-for-it.1514/ (https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog/the-truth-about-oscilloscope-waveform-update-rates-and-why-not-to-fall-for-it.1514/)
It appears the trigger rate of the MDO300o is 2200 per second in normal mode.
The "spectrum analyzer" is very poor, not just in its performance. It's just FFT and like everything else on the MDO3000 is so slow that it hurts :(
Yes the Teks normally default to slow update rates as usual but the Tek has Fast Acquisition mode or DPO mode as well as a Fast Frame capture mode using segmented memory. Don't think the Lecroys have ever offered fast acquisition rates. The Intensity graded display of the Tek is useful to display AM waveforms etc or anything that you would use a normal CRO to display.
I believe the spectrum analyzer on the MDO is more like a normal spectrum analyzer rather than FFT so there are some benefits of doing this in hardware.
cheers
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of this anyway. While it's true that you might spot glitches because of fast update rate, a glitch is always very dark due to the intensity grading logic. On a LeCroy, you would rather use advanced measurement/analysis/trigger features to spot issues than to stare at the screen.I agree that triggering is the best option to capture unexpected events. Staring at a screen is not a good use of time. BTW the R&S RTM3000 has an inverse intensity grading mode. The rare signals stick out like a sore thumb. IMHO having many levels of intensity grading is nice eye candy but there is very little practical value. 16 levels starting at 50% brightness is more than enough. There is only so much visual information you can process.
That shows the trigger rate, which can be unrelated to what data is actually arriving at the screen. There are many brands of scope which can be put into configurations where the trigger output shows impressive rates, but the data isn't arriving on the screen. There isn't a simple way to test the waveform update rate in those cases.Quotebut the Tek has Fast Acquisition mode or DPO mode as well as a Fast Frame capture mode using segmented memory. Don't think the Lecroys have ever offered fast acquisition rates.
No? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv2QNxv3C2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv2QNxv3C2k)
And as far as I know this intensity mode works with the full sample rate and all scope functions are still available when it's enabled - unlike Tek fastaq ;)
Yes the Teks normally default to slow update rates as usual but the Tek has Fast Acquisition mode or DPO mode as well as a Fast Frame capture mode using segmented memory. Don't think the Lecroys have ever offered fast acquisition rates. The Intensity graded display of the Tek is useful to display AM waveforms etc or anything that you would use a normal CRO to display.You have come to the same juncture as many before you, the division between scopes with an emphasis on realtime display, and those with an emphasis on deep memory and analysis of that offline.
You say that as if intensity graded display was something special - it isn't. Even my old Lecroy LTs have it, in monochrome (analog scope style) and color, and even as a waterfall display And these scopes are over 16 years old ;)
You say that as if intensity graded display was something special - it isn't. Even my old Lecroy LTs have it, in monochrome (analog scope style) and color, and even as a waterfall display And these scopes are over 16 years old ;)
Proper intensity grading ? lets see what it looks like on an AM waveform ;)
btw I have an old Tek TDS784A from the 90's that can capture waveforms at a rate of 390,000 wfs and display rare events. Donlt think any of the competitors had that at the time ;) And a TDS7054 does proper intensity grading with up to 200 K wfs with all measurement ability available. Both scopes have equivalent time sampling of up to 250 Gs/s. Unfortunately they dropped this in the later scopes.
Lecroy WaveJet is one of their few realtime designs
Didn't say it was, Lecroy offer and still sell a scope of the realtime design even if it is rebadged or co-designed.Lecroy WaveJet is one of their few realtime designs
Lecroy Wavejet is not Lecroy design. It's a rebadged Iwatsu scope (was mentioned often enough in this forum) ;)
Proper intensity grading ? lets see what it looks like on an AM waveform ;)
You say that as if intensity graded display was something special - it isn't. Even my old Lecroy LTs have it, in monochrome (analog scope style) and color, and even as a waterfall display And these scopes are over 16 years old ;)
Proper intensity grading ? lets see what it looks like on an AM waveform ;)
If you want me to post a screenshot of an AM modulated waveform then you'll have to wait until next week when my lab redecoration is finished ;)Quotebtw I have an old Tek TDS784A from the 90's that can capture waveforms at a rate of 390,000 wfs and display rare events. Donlt think any of the competitors had that at the time ;) And a TDS7054 does proper intensity grading with up to 200 K wfs with all measurement ability available. Both scopes have equivalent time sampling of up to 250 Gs/s. Unfortunately they dropped this in the later scopes.
I'm no expert (and I think waveform rates are way overvalued) but wasn't there the HP 54600 series with MegaZoom that was even faster and didn't even need a special mode to reach high waveform rates? ;)
But that doesn't matter because no matter how fast your scope is you still never know if there's that very rare anomaly because it most of the time it's still completely blind ;)
My old LT will capture rare anomalies every time because of its sophisticated set of triggers ;)
TDS7000 are ancient, and as far as I know they run the code of early TDS scopes on a separate computer inside the scope and wrapped a Windows GUI around it which is why all these scopes are so horribly slow. My college had Tek DPO3000 and MDO3000 (which were the standard scopes), a few MDO4000, I think two TDS6000 and a DPO7000 (and maybe others I can't remember), and all of them were slow as wading through molasses :(
And ETS at 250GSps, who cares? It's not giving you any advantage over the 200 GSps in ETS as on the Waveruner xi, or even the 20GSps I could get from my LT. And who cares about ETS anyways? ;)
I'd rather use an Agilent Infinum or Lecroy X-Stream scope over any Tek scope - no matter if TDS, DPO or MDO. Less frustrating and better performance ;)