EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: midix on August 25, 2016, 02:16:08 pm
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Hi all.
I have seen many power supply recommendations but they are mostly around the USA or Australian, or unknown Chinese brands.
I live in Europe (Latvia, to be more accurate) and I would like to buy a budget (under 150 EUR) power supply for my DIY projects. I'm looking at minimal range of 0-30V 0-5A models. Intended use - various small projects, mostly Raspberry, Beaglebone kind. But also might have some audio equipment or small motors related. So I'm not exactly sure if switching power supply would be able to deal with it?
I know that I could get one from China for really cheap, but I'd like to have at least some minimal warranty.
So, I looked around in Amazon.de and some local shops. Many products from unfamiliar brands (Levelpro, ECO-WORTHY) look like rebranded copies of the same model (at least from outside). If it is a good quality copy of a well known model, then I could go with it, but I can't tell from the looks of it.
One of more-less reliable European manufacturers known to me is Velleman, I already have a soldering station and grinding tool (a.k.a. poor man's Dremel) and they seem to be OK. They have a bunch of lab power supplies with required voltage / current range:
http://www.velleman.eu/products/list/?id=341733&page=2 (http://www.velleman.eu/products/list/?id=341733&page=2)
and these also seem like the same "copy-cats" as Chinese ones, so I'm still in doubt, what's inside of them. Also they do not specify which ones are linear (although for some of them it is specified that they are switching, but I'm not sure if all the others are linear) - what parameter in the specification should I look at to clearly see if it's linear or not? Is it ripple voltage and what should it be to make the distinction clear?
If you have experience with European manufacturers (of course, I know that they are made in China, but I hope to have at least more or less reliable circuit design and a warranty), then I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
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Can you order from Conrad? They have a bunch of power supplies as well and with some pushing around and cursing their customer support is OK.
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Just Voltcraft is as far away from european manufacture as you can go. Low quality chinese made instruments with pretty poor performance (like, 1A load step with the output set to 5V results in a dip to 0V for >1ms on a VLP2403).
Even Statron isnt as poor as that with their power supplies thats pretty much still based on 1980s east german technology.
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If you have experience with European manufacturers (of course, I know that they are made in China, but I hope to have at least more or less reliable circuit design and a warranty), then I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
Well, there is still Hameg, now sold as R&S Value Line, i.e.:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html)
Hameg gear is made in CZ, so it's actually European made.
You could of course also go for a 2nd hand R&S power supply, which would be made in Germany.
However, while I can certainly understand your caution re. Chinese brands, I don't understand what the problem is with US made gear.
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I know that I could get one from China for really cheap, but I'd like to have at least some minimal warranty.
For warranty you need a decent European vendor, not necessarily a manufacturer.
Farnell has for example the Temna line with products like this:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412 (http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412)
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One of more-less reliable European manufacturers known to me is Velleman, I already have a soldering station and grinding tool (a.k.a. poor man's Dremel) and they seem to be OK. They have a bunch of lab power supplies with required voltage / current range:
http://www.velleman.eu/products/list/?id=341733&page=2 (http://www.velleman.eu/products/list/?id=341733&page=2)
Velleman mostly rebrands Chinese crap.
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If you want something really european, end don't cost an arm and leg, then Thurlby Thandar is your only choice, I guess http://www.aimtti.com/ (http://www.aimtti.com/), they are made in UK.
As of cheap PSUs, Mastech would be the the cheapest what I would consider passable for buying if was out of money.
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Well, there is still Hameg, now sold as R&S Value Line, i.e.:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html)
Have you checked the price of that "value line"?
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Well, there is still Hameg, now sold as R&S Value Line, i.e.:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html)
Have you checked the price of that "value line"?
Yes, but at the end of the day you get what you pay for, and if it has to come from Europe then there isn't exactly much choice.
Personally, I'm quite happy with my 2nd hand Agilent E3631A plus 3yr repair agreement ;)
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Thanks a lot for mentioning so many options, I'll definitely explore them.
Actually, I have nothing against the USA models, but it is somewhat hard to find local distributors (to keep manufacturer's warranty) and buying directly from the USA adds noticeable costs, therefore I consider European options first.
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Still why do you want to buy new? The older HP/Agilent power supplies are very nice (I'd recommend one without a fan) and probably better then anything that fits in your budget. For the cheap brands I doubt there is something like manufacturer warranty. Warranty is something between you and the supplier. If a manufacturer provides warranty it is because they want to offer good customer service but they are under no obligation to do that.
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If you want a PSU made in Europe, you might consider Diametral from Czech Republic. http://www.diametral.cz/ac-dc-zdroje/dc-regulovatelne-zdroje/laboratorni.html (http://www.diametral.cz/ac-dc-zdroje/dc-regulovatelne-zdroje/laboratorni.html)
Or Statron from Germany.
http://www.statron.de/?lang=1 (http://www.statron.de/?lang=1)
I think that Statron is better. But they are very oldschool.
http://www.statron.de/details/170 (http://www.statron.de/details/170)
I doubt there is any MCU inside. Probably no advanced measurement functions.
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Well, at least it is nice to have the warranty from the seller - here in Europe every seller is obliged to provide at least two year warranty, which I won't have when buying from ebay or China or a used item.
I could also look at used options from reputable brands, if I can find one from a trustworthy seller and with reasonable shipping costs.
BTW, just curious, what's the real difference between:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412 (http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412)
and
http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862 (http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862)
Oh, those copied designs... It's impossible to know what the original was, unless you have been in the industry for years... |O
I think I have seen some Mastech models in local web shops, will take a look; they really seem more reputable than Tenma and Velleman, if I'm not mistaken.
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BTW, just curious, what's the real difference between:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412 (http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412)
and
http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862 (http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862)
Just that badge !
http://sigrok.org/wiki/Korad_KAxxxxP_series (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Korad_KAxxxxP_series)
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EA ELEKTRO-AUTOMATIK
Country of Origin: Germany
http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?sf=&catalogId=15001&showResults=true&mf=100938&categoryId=700000028501&langId=44&storeId=10151 (http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?sf=&catalogId=15001&showResults=true&mf=100938&categoryId=700000028501&langId=44&storeId=10151)
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EA ELEKTRO-AUTOMATIK
Country of Origin: Germany
http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?sf=&catalogId=15001&showResults=true&mf=100938&categoryId=700000028501&langId=44&storeId=10151 (http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?sf=&catalogId=15001&showResults=true&mf=100938&categoryId=700000028501&langId=44&storeId=10151)
That seems to be a good suggestion!
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BTW, just curious, what's the real difference between:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412 (http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-2540/power-supply-1ch-30v-5a-prog/dp/2445412)
and
http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862 (http://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417862)
Just that badge !
http://sigrok.org/wiki/Korad_KAxxxxP_series (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Korad_KAxxxxP_series)
KAxxxxP seems to be acceptable except older versions which had a serious problem (as seen in some of Dave's videos). And that makes me wonder, which version has been copied - the old or the new - the fixed one ;D
I just found one more company - PeakTech, seems to be coming from Germany ... and again just a rebranding company, judging from reviews.
So, I guess I'll have to stick with known models from Mastech or Korad, or something from Velleman / Tenma / PeakTech (or maybe even more cryptic names seen in some web shops, like Twintex Pwr, Matrix Pwr, Axiomet Pwr, Levelpro) will do, if only I'm 100% sure about specific model that it is a rebranded clone of something more or less acceptable, and not just a cloned design with completely different crappy internals.
All the other options mentioned - EA ELEKTRO-AUTOMATIK, Diametral, Statron, Hameg (R&S), Voltcraft - are out of my current budget (some because of high shipping costs) or somewhat difficult to find.
Considering all of this, and after reading some teardowns, currently I'm leaning towards Mastech HY-3005, HY-3005C.
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Personally I'd see if you can grab a second hand warrantied TTi supply. The things are bomb proof.
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TTi is Turbly expensive!
Note that Mastech is known to have many copies out there, so I wouldn't go that route either.
Regarding EA Elektro Automatik:
http://uk.farnell.com/ea-elektro-automatik/ea-3050b/power-supply-4ch-300v-5a-adjustable/dp/1437528 (http://uk.farnell.com/ea-elektro-automatik/ea-3050b/power-supply-4ch-300v-5a-adjustable/dp/1437528)
This one it says: Country of Origin is China! So it seems they also have it produced in China.
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:-DD European manufacturer
Only job available in "Europe manufacturer " is to remove labels and glue new ones, China already dominate the world
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TTi is Turbly expensive!
A new one is. Can grab a second hand one off ebay for not much. Warranty? Screw it, you can fix them with your eyes shut, not that I've ever had to (I've owned three so far)
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I actually misspelled my remark about Thurlby Thandar Instruments.
Thurlby expensive :)
BTW: I don't like their terminals with screws. It's cleaner with just banana jacks.
But of course some people might need the screws. Still then it would be better to have them on the back.
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Actually, I have nothing against the USA models, but it is somewhat hard to find local distributors (to keep manufacturer's warranty) and buying directly from the USA adds noticeable costs, therefore I consider European options first.
Not sure what you're talking about, there are various national offices and lots of distributors for American big brands like Keysight, Tek, Eaton, Magna-Power etc. In fact, it's easier to find say a Keysight representative than one from R&S.
Still why do you want to buy new? The older HP/Agilent power supplies are very nice (I'd recommend one without a fan) and probably better then anything that fits in your budget. For the cheap brands I doubt there is something like manufacturer warranty. Warranty is something between you and the supplier. If a manufacturer provides warranty it is because they want to offer good customer service but they are under no obligation to do that.
Also, you can often buy manufacturer warranty (sometimes called a 'repair agreement') for second hand big brand gear, too. My Agilent E3631A plus 3yrs repair agreement did cost me a less than 1/3rd of a new one, while still giving me the same security as to 'warranty'.
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Apparently the Norwegian brand Mascot still makes laboratory power supplies, like this one: http://www.elfadistrelec.lv/lv/laboratory-power-supply-45-15-vdc-mascot-mascot-719/p/16984306?q=mascot&sort=Price:desc&page=33&origPos=216&origPageSize=50&simi=96.07 (http://www.elfadistrelec.lv/lv/laboratory-power-supply-45-15-vdc-mascot-mascot-719/p/16984306?q=mascot&sort=Price:desc&page=33&origPos=216&origPageSize=50&simi=96.07)
No idea if they are manufactured here, the page says Norway is the country of origin?
The one I linked is only 45W though.
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I was not aware of Mascot :)
Do they have a triple power supply with around 195W? 30V-3A, 30V-3A, 5V-3A?
Maybe this is indeed still made in Norway and comes with "Viking" capacitors that last over time :)
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Thurlby expensive :)
BTW: I don't like their terminals with screws. It's cleaner with just banana jacks.
But of course some people might need the screws. Still then it would be better to have them on the back.
I do not see them as that expensive and definitely not compare to the quality you get.
Screw terminals are very useful on a power supply, but their clips for 4 terminal could be better. They usual also have connections on the back.
I do have a pile of them and they have replaced most of my other power supplies, my favorite is QL355P
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http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/c-24/c-77 (http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/c-24/c-77)
They are good at fixed voltage power adapters. But this laboratory power supply is just too basic. http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/acdc/desktop/230v/0719/c-24/c-1318/p-235 (http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/acdc/desktop/230v/0719/c-24/c-1318/p-235)
It looks like it came from 1960's 1970's. I want separate meter for voltage and current.
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http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/c-24/c-77 (http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/c-24/c-77)
They are good at fixed voltage power adapters. But this laboratory power supply is just too basic. http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/acdc/desktop/230v/0719/c-24/c-1318/p-235 (http://www.mascot.no/catalog/power-supplies/acdc/desktop/230v/0719/c-24/c-1318/p-235)
It looks like it came from 1960's. I want separate meter for voltage and current.
Yep, they are pretty basic - and rather expensive for what they are. Would like to see a teardown though!
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I found some schematic from 1973. I think the internal circuit is similar till nowadays.
It is basic but it might work much longer than all Rigols and Siglents.
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http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html (http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html)
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Not sure what you're talking about, there are various national offices and lots of distributors for American big brands like Keysight, Tek, Eaton, Magna-Power etc. In fact, it's easier to find say a Keysight representative than one from R&S.
Definitely true for UK, Germany, etc, but representation IS really crappy when it comes to Latvia :( Very small market + relatively low GDP per capita.
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http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html (http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html)
If it's that expensive, one would expect at least that it is accurate from the factory without doing your own calibration and modifications.
This design is so basic, and proofs that the company is not interested in R&D and innovation.
All they want to do is to rip off people.
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:-DD European manufacturer
Only job available in "Europe manufacturer " is to remove labels and glue new ones, China already dominate the world
I agree, therefore I wrote at the very beginning:
If you have experience with European manufacturers (of course, I know that they are made in China, but I hope to have at least more or less reliable circuit design and a warranty)...
So, now when I have looked at a few Mastechs available in my local shops, I noticed that some of them are actually labeled Hyelec. But seeing that on Mastech's own website there are models starting with HY (and after some search on eevblog), I found that they are (or at least were some time ago) the same factory. But that still doesn't mean anything. Real Mastech had reasonable quality (judging from some teardowns) but I have no idea about Hyelec - do they clone 1:1 from Mastech with the same quality or do they spit out the same crap as all the other <any random name here>elec do? Are Mastech labeled devices really owned and designed and QA-ed by Mastech? I see models like HY-3005E-2, HY-3005-2, HY-3005-3 but Mastech com site does not have those. Mastech Russian site, on the other hand, seems to be up to date, so I'm not sure what the real relationship is between HYelec / Mastech.
Also I have seen mentions of Circuit Specialists saying that some models are rebranded Chinese models with acceptable quality but some others are crap. So, I guess the "mission to accomplish" still boils down to this - to find a specific Chinese 30V 5A model of acceptable quality (as first original Mastechs and Korads were or close to that) branded and distributed by European company. This option might be the best way to get two year warranty and still fit my budget. Also, if I get it cheap, I won't be sad if the thing burns down, and it might happen because I'm still a beginner in electronics; I'm mostly programmer guy having fun with occasional ARM platform hardware experiments.
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I'd suggest a used TTI also , or a used HP
I have both , and love the fanless ones (TTI) , especially after having used my HP-6632B for a while.
/Bingo
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I have both , and love the fanless ones (TTI) , especially after having used my HP-6632B for a while.
My TTi's are not fanless, but the fan is controlled and usual is rather quiet, especially compared to my Keithley (The Keithley is a better power supply, but due to the noise I usual uses the TTi).
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If you have experience with European manufacturers (of course, I know that they are made in China, but I hope to have at least more or less reliable circuit design and a warranty), then I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
Well, there is still Hameg, now sold as R&S Value Line, i.e.:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/hmc804x-productstartpage_63493-61542.html)
Hameg gear is made in CZ, so it's actually European made.
You could of course also go for a 2nd hand R&S power supply, which would be made in Germany.
However, while I can certainly understand your caution re. Chinese brands, I don't understand what the problem is with US made gear.
I used one of these at the university! It' amazing stuff! Unfortunately it's not that cheap, but you can't go wrong with it.
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I think that the HMC8043 is a switching power supply, so the voltage output is subject to ripple.
Rather prefer a beefy linear power supply instead. Don't care so much about efficiency, as long as there is no ripple on the voltage output, and no spikes during turning it on and off, or when switching between ranges through a relay.
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Yes, I most certainly will pick a linear PSU.
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http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html (http://operationalsmoke.blogspot.cz/2013/09/mascot-719.html)
If it's that expensive, one would expect at least that it is accurate from the factory without doing your own calibration and modifications.
This design is so basic, and proofs that the company is not interested in R&D and innovation.
All they want to do is to rip off people.
That Mascot PSU have been working very well, and I have to add that the PSU is very old and heavily used in electronics test lab, so no wonder that the calibration is a bit off after ~20 years. But still I wouldn't recommend to buy similar just because there is a lot of PSU's with digital voltage & current gauges. In my opinion, if you buy a $125 chinese 30V 5A PSU, that's so cheap that you can buy a new one if it gets broken, with same price as you would buy one "premium" PSU. I've been very satisfied with my Mastech HY3005D, and it's still fine after 5 years and some moderate/long-term load conditions.
- The editor of op-smoke
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In my opinion, if you buy a $125 chinese 30V 5A PSU, that's so cheap that you can buy a new one if it gets broken, with same price as you would buy one "premium" PSU. I've been very satisfied with my Mastech HY3005D, and it's still fine after 5 years and some moderate/long-term load conditions.
Thank you for the confirmation that even current Mastechs can be good enough. I guess, that was the tipping point and I'm going for a Mastech (especially, since they are available at my local shop which also provides two year warranty) with a hope for at least few years of work.
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I think that the HMC8043 is a switching power supply, so the voltage output is subject to ripple.
Rather prefer a beefy linear power supply instead. Don't care so much about efficiency, as long as there is no ripple on the voltage output, and no spikes during turning it on and off, or when switching between ranges through a relay.
They are not, linear with switching preregulators...450 uV noise specified...
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I've had a couple of Mastech supplies. Awful things.
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Best power supplies ever are Delta Elektronika from The Netherlands:
http://www.delta-elektronika.nl/en/ (http://www.delta-elektronika.nl/en/)
or Oltronix also from The Netherlands:
http://www.oltronix.nl/en (http://www.oltronix.nl/en)
Used ones can be found on ebay and marktplaats.nl
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I've had a couple of Mastech supplies. Awful things.
Velleman is 90% rebrand from Mastech and similar products.
I had a Velleman multimeter years back which broke. When I opened the thing I discovered it was made by Mastech. Only the case colour was different and the price was 3 times higher.
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That's about right. There are various grades and clones of mastech products and depending on who cloned them and how much they paid, they range from instant mortal risk to just about acceptable. I'd rather put down the cash for a second hand TTi/Agilent/HP supply than buy a new Mastech or clone though.
I'd even rather use a 1970s Heathkit supply assembled by a blind drunk than some of the clones.
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For the same price you can get old Fluke 8050a or 8010 meters.
Which are a whole lot better!
As for a LAB supply, just get one of the old ones (even from Velleman).
I mean the 1970-1990 old ones.
They are simply just LM3xx's in a fancy case and they are very cheap second hand.
Another option is build one yourself.
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The one I like is the Rigol DP832. It is a bit expensive but you get 3 channels abd a good functional UI. Very good bang per buck for a brand new unit from a well known brand.
But I also got some old agilent rack PSUs that are built like a tank inside for pretty cheep of ebay