Author Topic: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter  (Read 4642 times)

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Offline PushUp

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2022, 11:24:13 am »
For me the DMM6500 is a total "no go", only because of its dimensions, as I don't wanna have a digital benchtop DMM in 2022 looking like an analoge oscilloscope from 1970.


As mentioned by Martin72 from above:

Here is a video, showing the transformer problem with comments beneath having the same hum noise:

"...The hum of the DMM6500 transformer will get worse over time. It makes me really sick and I never use this multimeter just because of this annoying noise..."

ht*****tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxa9Q3N5JlU




Cheers!  ;)
 

Online Hydron

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2022, 11:32:39 am »
Can't speak to the KS3446x meters, but I have a DMM6500 and while not without it's flaws, I really like it.

Pros:
- Was _significantly_ cheaper than the KS34461 when I bought it (UK early 2021)
- Very fast readings (plus digitiser mode), good graphing, triggering etc built in, lots of memory for readings
- Touchscreen is great for complicated setup tasks, and entering numbers into the unit
- Can extend with DIY or purchased scanning cards
- Lowest ohms range has a 1uohm resolution (not that you're gonna find it easy to get the last digit stable though!)
- No crazy plugins or anything needed for the web interface, just works seamlessly as a remote UI, and you can download readings in .csv directly from it
- You can write your own scripts to run on it (sadly they often don't play nice when you try and exit, sometimes you need to reboot the meter)
- Boots in just over 15s, which seems a lot quicker than what I saw on youtube for the KS3446x meters
- You can get support and warranty even if you're a private buyer

Cons:
- Continuity and diode mode aren't as good as a decent handheld meter, no auto-hold (you can improve things and add auto-hold with scripting, but then you need to deal with the flakiness of the script/app system)
- As previously noted, the low ohms ranges do NOT like highly inductive DUTs
- Not as fast to boot as the trusty 34401A (nothing modern except a handheld is though!)
- No hard power-switch (mine draws a little over 3W in standby with a fairly high line voltage, annoying but not enough to require drastic measures)
- Early units did have a hum problem, seems to be solved on later ones (and Tek will do a RMA to fix it, even if you're a private buyer and not a company, and you get a free calibration when it leaves the service centre)
- Not the best viewing angles in the world on the screen, a little care is required in placement for best visibility
- Slightly slower to change functions etc than something with dedicated buttons like a 34401A
- 10A input is rear-panel only
- Pretty long case as noted above (partly justified by the scanner card support)

AFAIK the coin cell going flat problem was solved with in a reasonably early FW revision so might not be an issue any more. Unit is not hard to open up to change it if needed though.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 11:39:41 am by Hydron »
 
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Offline MarkMLl

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2022, 08:11:34 pm »
An observation from a non-specialist if I may: leaving aside issues of stability and autoranging for a moment, a fundamental question is whether any provided datalink can change the mode and range or if this has to be done from the front panel.

MarkMLl
 

Online Hydron

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2022, 10:20:23 pm »
Any decent modern bench meter can be fully controlled from its remote interface (lan/gpib/usb/rs232). If you've got a scanning card you can even switch inputs.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2022, 10:27:50 pm »
You'd be crazy not to get a DMM6500 for that budget.

"...The hum of the DMM6500 transformer will get worse over time. It makes me really sick and I never use this multimeter just because of this annoying noise..."

Haven't heard any buzz, so no it doesn't get worse over time. New units shouldn't have the issue anyway.
Mine is a few years old.

AFAIK the coin cell going flat problem was solved with in a reasonably early FW revision so might not be an issue any more. Unit is not hard to open up to change it if needed though.

Yes its fixed maybe a year ago in the FW.

I get that but the thing is that an LCR meter usually sits somewhere in a desk drawer. When I need to measure a capacitor quickly to check the value, I always use my bench DMM because it is always there and has enough accuracy.

Do any bench meters have ESR?
I mean if you just want to check the capacitance thats fine, but for a proper check of a used/old cap it wouldn't be suitable.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 10:30:56 pm by thm_w »
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Offline skander36

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2022, 10:51:56 pm »
On DMM6500 the hum exist but can be heard only if no fan cooled device is running in that room. Any fan running will cover that hum. Certainly is not a reason to not buy.
Mine show about 4W in standby.
It is the only that can run locally scripts for extended functions (probe hold, channel grid, etc.), and it has a very flexible way to configure triggers.
Comparable, but not as good, with 6500 is KS 34465A at a higher price. I'd recomend it only if you are tied to KS in a professional way (contracts, calibrations). 
In terms of price/performance DMM6500 it is unbeatable on the market. I would not ignore SDM3065X, it do a similar job as KS & KT, but if you have budget for DMM6500 go for it.
 

Offline hansibullTopic starter

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2022, 09:45:08 am »
I've concluded that the Keithly DMM6500 or the Keysight 34460A/34461A would suit my needs.
The main issue is availability. I need the meter by the end of this year, and I haven't been able to find any of the meters in stock for a reasonable price.
Does anyone know where either of these instruments is in stock?
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2022, 02:46:28 pm »
Since the new : Keysight - "You have to be a company" to get support.
I'd never consider them for a "Private/Hobby" usage.

I like them, but will not buy a new KS Instrument, due to their policys.

/Bingo

Who have : 3456 + 3457 + 34401 + 3458

My next DMM will not be Keysight
 
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Offline skander36

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2022, 06:25:57 pm »
I've concluded that the Keithly DMM6500 or the Keysight 34460A/34461A would suit my needs.
The main issue is availability. I need the meter by the end of this year, and I haven't been able to find any of the meters in stock for a reasonable price.
Does anyone know where either of these instruments is in stock?

Welectron? 6500 is marked as "soon on stock" but they have KS34461A although on short supply.
Eleshop expect 6500 on 25 nov.
Farnell - 34460A in stock on 17 Nov.

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2022, 07:35:20 pm »
Autoranging speed and fast continuity aren't usually things that high-end bench meter buyers look for…
Ummm… what? Ok, maybe once you’re at 7.5 or 8.5 digit metrology meters.

But others are extremely fast. Μy Keithley 2015 is spectacularly fast to autorange, which is precisely one of the joys of using it. It’s continuity meter is also very responsive, sufficient that I don’t bother to pull out the Fluke 87V that’s on a shelf just 1 foot away!

I haven’t tested the continuity on it (if it even has it) on the Keithley 2001 at work, but I do know its autoranging speed is fantastic.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2022, 07:57:43 pm »


Must have/be:
  • Not "annoying and quirky to use". I want it to be just as convenient as a handheld. (I bought a Rigol DG1022Z a few years ago because of the specs, and I regret it every single time I use it since the UI is so terrible and quirky)
  • Reasonably quick auto-ranging. At least so that you'll have to sit and wait for each measurement. Maybe this can be adjusted in the settings with a tradeoff in accuracy?
  • 5.5 digits or more
  • 4-wire resistance measurement with 1 milliohm resolution or better. I'll use the meter to track down short circuits on a PCB, so this is important. If it comes with decent probes, this is a pluss
  • True-RMS
  • Reasonably fast boot time or a soft power switch for immediate startup
I can tell you that a Keithley 2015 (which itself is a variant of the Keithley 2000) would likely make you very happy. It’s not a modern color TFT meter, but consequently takes almost no time at all to boot, just a few seconds. (Bear in mind that boot time is not a design priority in bench meters, because for precision measurements, you need to warm them for half an hour anyway. So whether it takes 10 or 60 seconds to boot is immaterial in that context.)
A used Keithley 2000 or 2015 is also cheaper.

Yes, on a bench meter you can set measurement speed vs accuracy, plus add filtering (which slows things down more). But bear in mind that the fastest speeds are so fast as to be functionally useless for your eyes. On my K2015, I normally use medium speed with filtering to give around 10 readings per second, or slow speed without filtering. Medium speed without filtering is 30 per second, fast is 50/sec. You can’t even read the display at that speed! (Slow is 5 readings per second, still faster than the 3-4 readings per second of most handheld meters.) Autoranging in DC volts/amps is specified at <30ms (150ms in ohms, still awesomely responsive). In AC it’s a lot slower, but I’ve done so little with AC that I can’t say how it compares to other meters.

Bench meters in general tend to be more annoying to use because they lack the dedicated function buttons. Switching modes often requires multiple button presses. So you’ll have to dispel yourself of the expectation of a bench meter being “just as convenient” as a handheld. As an example, continuity mode on the K2015 is [Shift][2 wire ohms][Enter] (because continuity is the secondary function of the 2W ohms button, and then enter is needed to confirm the threshold, since you can set what resistance value it beeps below). On many color GUI meters, it’s more complicated still.

I haven’t used the DMM6500 so I can’t comment on its user interface, but given that Keithley is famous for high-speed bench meters, I’d expect it to autorange very, very fast.

I wouldn’t buy a Keysight now. I use a 34465A at work, and honestly I don’t love the interface, but the deal-breaker is Keysight’s newfound disdain for the non-commercial user.

How bizarre: Distrelec has the DMM6500 in stock here in Switzerland, but not in Norway. I’m surprised they don’t ship it from the Swiss warehouse. (They often ship to Switzerland from the Netherlands when something isn’t in stock in the Swiss warehouse, but is available in the Dutch warehouse.)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 08:02:01 pm by tooki »
 

Offline armandine2

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2022, 08:33:30 pm »
My thesis is a bit more primitive  - product placement will play a significant part in the choice - I see "Applied Science" has this bench multimeter, oh

!

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught - Hunter S Thompson
 
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Offline jancumps

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Re: Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2022, 10:01:44 pm »
The reports of my noise are greatly exaggerated.
 


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